Party Time

[Roro1972]

Man...................................... Are some of you guys forgetting the biggest verse in the Bible?

"In that WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS......... !!!!!!!!!! NOT after we straightened up. NOT after we got "clean". NOT after we did something. NOT if we qualified, first.

OF COURSE Jesus was a friend of unrepentant sinners. He looked at the Rich Young Ruler, and LOVED him, before the man even said a word... and we are never told this man repented of anything... merely that he went away sad because he did love him some possessions.

john 15:14
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
If ye do whatsoever I command you, would make one not a sinner
so a friend of Jesus would have to have quit sinning to become a friend not stay a sinner.

 

[Edward]

Ok so go with the thoughts of a 'licence to sin' Sally the hooker Jesus doesn't care if you hook... Sam and Joe your relationship if just fine with God... You theives dont worry about doing jail time here you have a home in His kingdom I bet Jesus gave you that phone so you could gossip ... Next time You Mr. Bundy are planing a murder lets have a party to celebrate.it,. A good time to have an adulterous affair would be a party.....


You are so right this is Scripture
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

This is also scripture
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
One is not more scripture than the other passage .. Some place is a balance....

I am nothing but a sinner saved by His grace

That's extreme thinking reba. There is a balance, and it's in His Love for us. Loving your children goes beyond them doing wrong. (Did you turn to hate your child, when they did something really really wrong? Of course not. Jesus will probably be bawling His eyes out the day that the unbelievers get thrown into the fire. Willie's right.

 

[Edward]

john 15:14
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
If ye do whatsoever I command you, would make one not a sinner
so a friend of Jesus would have to have quit sinning to become a friend not stay a sinner.

Almost brother, but not quite. There are four levels of relationship with the Lord, and ALL are saved. They go Follower, Friend, Son, Bride. Followers are saved too. So perhaps what is being said here is that one has to walk the walk, going beyond mere belief to become a Friend of Christ.

 

[WIP]

Every year I get together with friends in late September for a weekend of camping, ATV riding, grouse hunting, and leaf color sight seeing. This is all wonderful and good and we enjoy ourselves. There's another part of this outing that is not always so wonderful and good. Most of those I am hanging with enjoy their beverages and quite often enjoy them to excess. Now I am there with them and I enjoy my beverages too but there is a difference. I avoid drinking to excess and getting drunk. I figure I am setting an example that one can enjoy the time without being intoxicated to do so and while there I will occasionally throw out a little dig for God. For example, a couple years ago we enjoyed probably the brightest and most beautiful display of color I can ever remember. On one morning while we were sitting there drinking coffee and enjoying the sunrise as it lighted up the trees I made the comment, "We are surrounded by God's mural and the forest is His canvas!" Now they didn't take the bite and I didn't push the issue as I am also sure most of them are not Christians but one never knows.

The point is, Jesus went to where the sick were at. He doesn't sit in some penthouse office somewhere above all the hustle and bustle of life waiting for the sinners to make the journey upstairs. He goes where the trouble is and comes to us in our weakness to offer His healing touch. He doesn't have to participate in our sinfulness to do this.

 

[reba]

Understanding what the word 'party' has come to mean in this world today i have a strong aversion to the word....

Jesus pulls us out of 'miry clay' He does not join us in our sin.
Psa_40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

Loving your children goes beyond them doing wrong

Loving ones children does not mean partying with them.

 

[Obadiah]

Wow ! Another person who sounds like he slipped into one of the back pews at our Vineyard church, and sat there, listening. (The Vineyard kind of grabbed the torch when the Calvary Chapel started cooling down, and we left their group to do church a bit differently.) Sadly, even the Vineyard is slipping into "traditionalism" a little bit, the past few years. Maybe there is a new awakening starting out there in the younger people who see Jesus more than they just "do church". I hope so.

Close, but never went to Vineyard. Heard plenty about it, but by that time I was working as a youth pastor so didn't have much spare time for slipping into the back pew of very many other places.

I don't see a "new awakening" where I am just yet, but there seems to be a feeling for the last few years that God is ready to do something again and I'm just waiting for the trigger to get pulled on it, whatever that trigger will end up being. One thing that points to this is where people's heads are these days. The state I live in has the highest percentage in the U.S. of people who do not go to church, yet the most popular radio stations are the Christian stations, outranking even the talk radio shows! (From a study I saw a while back.) What people choose to listen to in the background on their radios, etc, says a lot about where there minds are. This is just one more thing that shows to me people are becoming more spiritually minded for some reason. Yet the fact that such a high percentage of these same people refuse to go to traditional church activities says the church must be doing something wrong when it comes to being ministers and evangelists to the people around them.

Something needs to be done differently and I think when we finally hit on whatever that different thing is, there will be another big revival. Maybe it's time that we stop focusing as much on the things so many of us are focusing on lately (fighting over fundamentalism vs liberalism, right Bible vs wrong Bible, new music vs old music, condemning the sinner instead of preaching salvation through the grace of God, being so self righteous, on and on and on) and start putting more focus on providing those around us the good things to make them want to start fellowshipping with us Christians? That's going to take more than just putting up a sign in front of the church telling people they are "welcome" to come see the same old thing. There are plenty of good things we can do and provide that aren't promoting sin if we would just stop splitting hairs trying to find a reason to shake our fingers of condemnation at every new idea that comes along. We need to stop excluding all the people around us and we need to start doing the things that will make people excited about going to "hang out with the Christians" again.

 

[Obadiah]

Understanding what the word 'party' has come to mean in this world today i have a strong aversion to the word....

Jesus pulls us out of 'miry clay' He does not join us in our sin.
Psa_40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

Loving ones children does not mean partying with them.

This is true for a lot of people. "Party" has taken on the meaning of doing drugs and other sinful stuff. But that's not really what the word means. However, I don't think there's any reason to use the word "party" among people who get a different idea than it's traditional meaning. Just like if we wanted to find friends that are happy, today we wouldn't say we are looking for "gay" friends! I'm sure another word can be used (maybe should be?) instead of throwing out the whole concept.

I agree, loving ones children doesn't mean "partying" with them if your definition of partying is getting together to sin! Jesus never promoted sin, and neither should we! But loving ones children certainly does include getting together with them to do things that they all consider to be fun and enjoy doing. I think that's the point that's being made.

 

[reba]

Agree Obadiah.. I reacted to the title Party Time ..
I would most likely react the same to 'stuffed shirt ' Christianity .
I do very much agree with the concept of going where we are needed... Much witnessing is done without saying a word... One of my heros was the guy would would take a hot cup of what ever to the town drunk spend some time with him... never condemning never preaching AT him...
i get the message

 

[Willie T]

BTW, the book that this idea is centered around is The Kingdom of God is a Party by: Tony Campolo, the guy who threw the birthday party for the hooker, Agnes. It's a nice read... not too heavy, at all.

 

[Obadiah]

LOL. Hadn't read that book, but it sounds exactly like Tony! :yes

 

[Roro1972]

I have to disagree with the op. I think if a sinner who had never read the bible were to read it they would think
Jesus was a drunk and loved partying more than anything and because he did; so can they.
One has to remember all the negative things are being said by Jesus' enemies not by his friends.
Naturally an enemy would stretch the truth a bit.

Mark 2
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matt 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

He spent time spreading his message and it was not getting drunk on wine and partying until dawn with sinners.
I could not find any partys and only one marriage Jesus went to.

 

[Obadiah]

Agree Obadiah.. I reacted to the title Party Time ..
I would most likely react the same to 'stuffed shirt ' Christianity .
I do very much agree with the concept of going where we are needed... Much witnessing is done without saying a word... One of my heros was the guy would would take a hot cup of what ever to the town drunk spend some time with him... never condemning never preaching AT him...
i get the message

That's a great idea! In fact, I spent a lot of time in a seedy area of Vancouver (British Columbia) doing similar with the street hookers there. I did some with the druggies and pushers as well, but it wasn't as easy with them. But being a guy alone in a car, unlike druggies and pushers the hookers would just need a quick glance in their direction and they'd jump right in my car. I'd offer them something like a meal at McDonald's, or a cup of coffee, or whatever. On slow nights (slow for their "trade") they'd sometimes take me up on it just to get out of the cold rain for a little while and have something to eat or a hot drink. Of course, while doing that it gives me the chance to wait for an opportunity to witness. A lot of times it would happen.

And you know what? It's surprising how many times I'd run into a lady who had accepted Christ at one time and was involved in Christian fellowship, but fell away when hard times came and ended up living in the streets and hooking to get by. Where were all us Christians when she first needed help and support? For most of them, they were usually a little "different" in looks or personality than the mainstream type of "stuffed shirt" church goer, so they were ignored by us in our fancy traditional church settings while they fell deeper and deeper into depression, sin, and hard times. When they disappeared from our churches, if we remembered them at all, we were secretly glad they were gone because they didn't really "fit in" with the rest of us. We probably hoped they found another church somewhere. But too many times that's not even close to what happened. We failed them in terrible ways while they were with us in church, and I get to see the sad and frightening results firsthand. The terrible part is once they have fallen to that level, it's almost impossible to do much to change things for them. Only God can do it, but she has to have an open heart for God to do that. Many don't and sadly never will. But just one won for Christ is worth the effort!

But how do I look to those who see me while I'm doing this? What kind of judgements do they make of me? I'm seen in public stopping on the street and picking up a prostitute in my car. I'm seen in public with her (there is no mistaking the "look"!) I may be seen in a store with her buying her clothes or other things she needs and doesn't have. And I'm even (God forbid!) laughing and joking with her and looking like I'm having a good time! (And I usually am genuinely having a good time! I don't have to be sinning to have a good time!) Even some of those who know what I'm doing accuse me of making poor choices, putting myself in front of all that "temptation to sin" as if I have no control over my own actions. Obviously I must be a horrible sinner, just like people thought Jesus was when he did similar.

Things need to change in the way a lot of us treat those around us and in the way we supposedly evangelize them these days.

 

[Obadiah]

...He spent time spreading his message and it was not getting drunk on wine and partying until dawn with sinners.
I could not find any partys and only one marriage Jesus went to.

I don't believe anyone suggested Jesus "got drunk" and "partied till dawn" which seems to be implying the wild, sinful type of party Reba is talking about when she thinks of the word "party". If someone else wants to stretch the truth, that's on them. As for parties in the Bible, a party is simply a gathering of people for something enjoyable. When the Bible mentions people getting together for a meal, a feast, or a celebration this is a party by definition of the word. Did anyone ever throw you a birthday "party" while you were a Christian? Was this a sin?

As has been pointed out, the word only has sinful meaning if you put that meaning onto it. I don't think we should throw out or hinder the whole idea of reaching the lost effectively just because of one word's modern day connotations. If you prefer, just don't use the word "party". Call it something else.

 

[Roro1972]

I don't believe anyone suggested Jesus "got drunk" and "partied till dawn" which seems to be implying the wild, sinful type of party Reba is talking about when she thinks of the word "party". If someone else wants to stretch the truth, that's on them. As for parties in the Bible, a party is simply a gathering of people for something enjoyable. When the Bible mentions people getting together for a meal, a feast, or a celebration this is a party by definition of the word. Did anyone ever throw you a birthday "party" while you were a Christian? Was this a sin?

As has been pointed out, the word only has sinful meaning if you put that meaning onto it. I don't think we should throw out or hinder the whole idea of reaching the lost effectively just because of one word's modern day connotations. If you prefer, just don't use the word "party". Call it something else.

I could be misunderstanding this. All the verses saying Jesus done these things are from his enemies so most likely not true or embellished a bit. I would not use quotes of someones enemy to describe them.

 

[Obadiah]

I could be misunderstanding this. All the verses saying Jesus done these things are from his enemies so most likely not true or embellished a bit. I would not use quotes of someones enemy to describe them.

You wouldn't use quotes from the Bible to describe Jesus? So if Jesus didn't do anything that the secular world would consider "fun" or enjoyable, what in your opinion attracted the unsaved and unsavory characters to him?

These were not the religious of the time who would go to worship him. They certainly didn't come for that reason. These were the sinners, the non-religious, the unbelievers who much like today were exactly the people Jesus was there for. It's obvious from scripture that these people wanted to be in his company because we are told so. So what would initially attract these people to want to be around him if he never had a dinner party or a fun celebration of some kind? What would attract them to him if he couldn't in some way relate to them to get their attention in order to tell them the good news of salvation? These were not people who were initially convicted of their sins and looking for a savior. These were not the kind of people who would hear a rumor that a "messiah" had been sent from God and rush right over to hang around with him while he did nothing but pray and preach to them because that's just what they really wanted to do for a good time! Today I don't know anyone who voluntarily goes out of their way to hang out with someone they can't relate to and have nothing in common with. Why would the sinners and ungodly of Jesus time hang out with Him if He never did anything enjoyable with them? There's no basis at all for assuming everything that an unbeliever would enjoy also has to be sinful.

As I've already said, I don't think we should throw out or hinder the whole idea of reaching the lost effectively just because of one word's modern day connotations. It's already too easy to find excuses not to be a testimony for Christ to the lost. We don't need to find further hindrances by always seeing sin in things that are not sin.

 

[Deborah13]

I could be misunderstanding this. All the verses saying Jesus done these things are from his enemies so most likely not true or embellished a bit. I would not use quotes of someones enemy to describe them.

It wasn't the Pharisees saying he did this, eating and drinking, with publicans and sinners. He did do that. Mark 2, says He did. And the self-righteous Pharisees criticized Him for doing that.

 

[Roro1972]

You wouldn't use quotes from the Bible to describe Jesus? So if Jesus didn't do anything that the secular world would consider "fun" or enjoyable, what in your opinion attracted the unsaved and unsavory characters to him?

These were not the religious of the time who would go to worship him. They certainly didn't come for that reason. These were the sinners, the non-religious, the unbelievers who much like today were exactly the people Jesus was there for. It's obvious from scripture that these people wanted to be in his company because we are told so. So what would initially attract these people to want to be around him if he never had a dinner party or a fun celebration of some kind? What would attract them to him if he couldn't in some way relate to them to get their attention in order to tell them the good news of salvation? These were not people who were initially convicted of their sins and looking for a savior. These were not the kind of people who would hear a rumor that a "messiah" had been sent from God and rush right over to hang around with him while he did nothing but pray and preach to them because that's just what they really wanted to do for a good time! Today I don't know anyone who voluntarily goes out of their way to hang out with someone they can't relate to and have nothing in common with. Why would the sinners and ungodly of Jesus time hang out with Him if He never did anything enjoyable with them? There's no basis at all for assuming everything that an unbeliever would enjoy also has to be sinful.

As I've already said, I don't think we should throw out or hinder the whole idea of reaching the lost effectively just because of one word's modern day connotations. It's already too easy to find excuses not to be a testimony for Christ to the lost. We don't need to find further hindrances by always seeing sin in things that are not sin.

one of my many faults is being poorly educated. I sometimes do not comprehend things correctly. This must be one of those times.
Some the things in the bible are so shortened that they leave me wondering what else should have been in the story.
If a man came by me and only said "follow me" ; then I would have to somehow perceive he is Jesus the Christ and
get up and follow him.
I would think either more was said and not printed or they perceived somehow that; he was the Christ.
or
If I did not perceive him as the "Christ" I would ignore those words "follow me".
I mean if you only heard two words "follow me" there would have to be something inside you, that says to you, follow this man.
If this man took seven demons out of me I would follow him and do anything he ask of me.
all these people following him seem to have been helped by Jesus ( or needing help ) and they followed or these
followers knew or perceived him to be the real Christ.
The other group was the ones that did not want the changes Jesus spoke of.

 

[jasonc]

since I work in often multi-million dollar homes communities. I as a mainlander wouldn't be visited by those folks in their churches. if I was in Gifford, forget it, they likely wouldn't go visit , befriend a poor black, latino, white person there. too risky.a criminal record need not matter with those. im sure some would and do care but most often that isn't likely.

 

[WIP]

You wouldn't use quotes from the Bible to describe Jesus? So if Jesus didn't do anything that the secular world would consider "fun" or enjoyable, what in your opinion attracted the unsaved and unsavory characters to him?

These were not the religious of the time who would go to worship him. They certainly didn't come for that reason. These were the sinners, the non-religious, the unbelievers who much like today were exactly the people Jesus was there for. It's obvious from scripture that these people wanted to be in his company because we are told so. So what would initially attract these people to want to be around him if he never had a dinner party or a fun celebration of some kind? What would attract them to him if he couldn't in some way relate to them to get their attention in order to tell them the good news of salvation? These were not people who were initially convicted of their sins and looking for a savior. These were not the kind of people who would hear a rumor that a "messiah" had been sent from God and rush right over to hang around with him while he did nothing but pray and preach to them because that's just what they really wanted to do for a good time! Today I don't know anyone who voluntarily goes out of their way to hang out with someone they can't relate to and have nothing in common with. Why would the sinners and ungodly of Jesus time hang out with Him if He never did anything enjoyable with them? There's no basis at all for assuming everything that an unbeliever would enjoy also has to be sinful.

As I've already said, I don't think we should throw out or hinder the whole idea of reaching the lost effectively just because of one word's modern day connotations. It's already too easy to find excuses not to be a testimony for Christ to the lost. We don't need to find further hindrances by always seeing sin in things that are not sin.

I have a hunch that when Jesus spent time with these types he didn't participate in rebel rousing, drunkenness, debauchery, etc. but I'm betting he did participate with limitations. In other words, He did not commit sinful acts to fit in. I think a good example is the wedding at Cana where he provided barrels of wine.

 

[jasonc]

I have a hunch that when Jesus spent time with these types he didn't participate in rebel rousing, drunkenness, debauchery, etc. but I'm betting he did participate with limitations. In other words, He did not commit sinful acts to fit in. I think a good example is the wedding at Cana where he provided barrels of wine.

jewish wedding are festival, very very very festival. my cousin roy has pics of him age 50 dancing with his bride and other men as jews do on his profile. his daughter poked at him. don't embarrass yourself too much dad.lol