Past Lives?

[Jim Parker]

its an idea the disciples believed possible.

It is highly unlikely since it has no support in the ancient Jewish religion or culture. The idea would have been totally foreign to them.
So, if "anything is possible" then you would be correct.
But "anything is possible" is not an accurate description of reality.

 

[jaybird]

It is highly unlikely since it has no support in the ancient Jewish religion or culture. The idea would have been totally foreign to them.
So, if "anything is possible" then you would be correct.
But "anything is possible" is not an accurate description of reality.

the Essenes, who were Jews, where writing theology on past lives at the time of Jesus and the 12.
orthodox Jews teach pre exestance to this day.
the idea would have only been foreign to the Sadducees, all other sects believed in pre existance.

 

[Randy]

Jesus didnt correct them on believing such things, he says thats not why the man was born blind. had Jesus supported your view He would have rebuked them for entertaining such ideas.
none the less its an idea the disciples believed possible.

Zech 12:1, Genesis supports the formation of the Spirit within the body. (At that time) not outside the womb as in preexistence to born at a later date. It might have been held that the sins of the parents would/could come upon their children. I believe Jesus judges according to what we do not others do. Even as far back as Daniel 12.1 A resurrection on the last day was taught for all righteous and unrighteous. Not reincarnation. The Sadducees didn't believe in a resurrection nor angels at all. Jesus didn't entertain the idea. He answered the question.

 

[jaybird]

Zech 12:1, Genesis supports the formation of the Spirit within the body. (At that time) not outside the womb as in preexistence to born at a later date. It might have been held that the sins of the parents would/could come upon their children. I believe Jesus judges according to what we do not others do. Even as far back as Daniel 12.1 A resurrection on the last day was taught for all righteous and unrighteous. Not reincarnation. The Sadducees didn't believe in a resurrection nor angels at all. Jesus didn't entertain the idea. He answered the question.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

the body goes back to the earth and the spirit goes back to where it came from, the Father.

 

[Randy]

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

the body goes back to the earth and the spirit goes back to where it came from, the Father.

Yes, the God who formed our Spirits in the womb as in our Heavenly "Father". Actually where our Spirit ends up is in Jesus's hands. Lord into your hands I commit my spirit. As Stephen stated.

Zech 12:1
A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:

There is no scripture that states our spirits are formed outside the womb.

 

[jaybird]

Yes, the God who formed our Spirits in the womb as in our Heavenly "Father". Actually where our Spirit ends up is in Jesus's hands. Lord into your hands I commit my spirit. As Stephen stated.

Zech 12:1
A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:

There is no scripture that states our spirits are formed outside the womb.

yet the spirit goes back to the Father, is the Father inside the womb?

 

[Randy]

yet the spirit goes back to the Father, is the Father inside the womb?

That doesn't speak to preexistence prior to the womb. Our Spirits or us are already born at that point. You are free to believe that I just don't know why as there is no teaching or scripture to support our spirits being formed outside of the womb. Adam and Jesus would be the exceptions but even Adams spirit was formed within His body.

 

[jaybird]

That doesn't speak to preexistence prior to the womb. Our Spirits or us are already born at that point. You are free to believe that I just don't know why as there is no teaching or scripture to support our spirits being formed outside of the womb. Adam and Jesus would be the exceptions but even Adams spirit was formed within His body.

you have one passage saying the spirit is formed in him
and several passages saying the spirit returns to the Father.
something is not adding up. they cant all be right because the Zech passage (according to your interpretation) contradicts the other passages.
if the spirit is formed in the womb and didnt exist before, it couldnt go back to the Father after the body dies because it was never with the father to begin with.
IMO the formation in Zech is when the physical and spiritual are combined together by the Father, the physical of this world, the spiritual of the heavens. this makes more sense to me then believing we have no spiritual connection at all to the heavens. thats a scary thought.

 

[Randy]

you have one passage saying the spirit is formed in him
and several passages saying the spirit returns to the Father.
something is not adding up. they cant all be right because the Zech passage (according to your interpretation) contradicts the other passages.
if the spirit is formed in the womb and didnt exist before, it couldnt go back to the Father after the body dies because it was never with the father to begin with.
IMO the formation in Zech is when the physical and spiritual are combined together by the Father, the physical of this world, the spiritual of the heavens. this makes more sense to me then believing we have no spiritual connection at all to the heavens. thats a scary thought.

We are not connected to the heavens. We are connected to God via the Spirit of Christ in us who made the Heavens and the earth and that which dwells within them. Thats a comforting thought.
Back to the one one formed my spirit doesn't speak to a preexistence. As It started with Him in the womb.
Jesus is the Judge of the living and the dead. I fully expect to have my Spirit upon the death of my body be brought to Him. I assume by his angels. I still state my beginning began in the womb of my mother.

 

[WIP]

This is the Theology Forum. Claims should be supported with the Scripture references that demonstrate the reason for different views.

 

[jaybird]

We are not connected to the heavens. We are connected to God via the Spirit of Christ in us who made the Heavens and the earth and that which dwells within them. Thats a comforting thought.

if we have no connection to the heavens it would be impossible to pray to the Father who is in heaven.

Back to the one one formed my spirit doesn't speak to a preexistence. As It started with Him in the womb.
Jesus is the Judge of the living and the dead. I fully expect to have my Spirit upon the death of my body be brought to Him. I assume by his angels. I still state my beginning began in the womb of my mother.

how does anything return back to where it came from when its never been there before? sorry but that makes little sense to me.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Once you go to Heaven or Hell is that it? There are so many stories about people returning from both or either of those two places, and there are even stories about them being reborn as somebody (or something) else that sound really convincing. The only problem is that I don't think the Bible mentions anything about near death experiences or reincarnation to support these claims does it?

I have been in Daily Bible Study for these past 28 years except for meditation on the application of scriptures. Because of the study and the meditation, I can tell you that thisand some other insanity is nothing more than rebellion against God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The Bible doesn't say anything about quantum physics, calculus or innumerable other subjects either.

Near-Death Experiences and reincarnation are two entirely different subjects. By definition, an NDE is not a "death" experience. There is nothing inherently unbiblical about NDEs.

You would be right as long as you remain in the company of, pardon LORD for even typing Blasphemy to reveal, but remain in the company of Liberal Left wing ¿Christians?

The very extreme opposite, the Extreme Right with their heavy armament are just as wrong, in the other direction. Take comfort in the truth that God has revealed all we need to live Eternity with Him. I was not a Christian before I was less than 4 weeks from my 45th and as such I did a lot of testing and examining and this, NDEs, took years to examine. I'll just say, "Satan's quiver isfull of weapons that are not Arrows."

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

John 9:1-2
As he went along he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
the disciples that walked with Jesus believed it was possible a man could be punished for sins committed before birth.

Hmm very very interesting observation. Thank you for sharing it
Let me quote something similar, Christ's own words :
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, John is the Elijah who was to come.’”
(Matthew 11:14)

I wonder was it all predestined and foreordained ..... Doesn't the word say We did not choose God , He chose us

John 15:16 ►

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

 

[jasonc]

the Essenes, who were Jews, where writing theology on past lives at the time of Jesus and the 12.
orthodox Jews teach pre exestance to this day.
the idea would have only been foreign to the Sadducees, all other sects believed in pre existance.

Chassidic jews teach that bit it's new not an old teaching

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Chassidic jews teach that bit it's new not an old teaching

Since Christianity in essence stems from Jeduaism , can we deduce from this that Bible reveals pre-existence?

 

[Randy]

if we have no connection to the heavens it would be impossible to pray to the Father who is in heaven.

As I said we are connected to the God who made the heavens.
Romans 8:26-27 niv
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
John 14:20 Niv
Jesus=>On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

 

[Runner]

You would be right as long as you remain in the company of, pardon LORD for even typing Blasphemy to reveal, but remain in the company of Liberal Left wing ¿Christians?

You lost me there. Are you referring to me, a faithful Trump supporter (often cringing, but faithful) as "in the company of Liberal Left-Wing Christians?" And if I were, what would that have to do with the Near Death Experiences or reincarnation?

As I said above, the field of NDE research includes very serious Christians. Dr. Gary Habermas, one of the foremost experts on the Resurrection and a very conservative evangelical Christian, has written and spoken widely on NDEs. See http://www.garyhabermas.com/qa/qa_index.htm#nea, which has a section on "Near Death Experiences and Life After Death."

My point is that, for both NDEs and reincarnation, there is a large body of evidence that demands to be considered. It is not a mark of Christian faith or faithfulness to hide from reality.

In regard to reincarnation, the only Bible verse that truly appears to be contrary to the doctrine, and the one that is always cited, is the one I cited: Hebrews 9:27. As we see from the discussion above, the other verses that are arguably relevant can be read in a variety of ways. When Hebrews 9:27 is read in context, I think it is clear that reincarnation was not a topic on the table - but it says what it says, and the words are contrary to reincarnation. John 9:1-2 does sound as though the disciples had reincarnation in the back of their minds, but there are other explanations for the verses and it is a fact that, if the Jews had any notion of reincarnation at that time, this was limited to minor mystical sects. I think it is highly unlikely that the OT authors or the disciples of Jesus had ever given a thought to reincarnation one way or the other.

So I believe that ultimately we are simply left with two bodies of evidence, one regarding NDEs and one regarding reincarnation. Neither body of evidence is so strong that it compels a particular conclusion. Either body of evidence can be accommodated into a Christian worldview, although a belief in reincarnation will put you far outside the mainstream. If someone thinks Hebrews 9:27 is absolutely dispositive, that person will find a way to reject even the best evidence as misinterpreted, fraudulent or even demonic.

I do find it simply "interesting," and at least worth thinking about, that reincarnation would completely resolve two major Christian issues: The problem of evil (and the seeming unfairness and arbitrariness of life), and the notion that billions of people are doomed to hell if they do not come to Christ in this lifetime (even though a great many of them have no realistic possibility of ever doing so, for reasons completely beyond their control). A countervailing consideration is that a belief in reincarnation might dilute the urgency of the Christian message and the need to make a decision for Christ NOW, before it's too late.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

You lost me there. Are you referring to me, a faithful Trump supporter (often cringing, but faithful) as "in the company of Liberal Left-Wing Christians?" And if I were, what would that have to do with the Near Death Experiences or reincarnation?

As I said above, the field of NDE research includes very serious Christians. Dr. Gary Habermas, one of the foremost experts on the Resurrection and a very conservative evangelical Christian, has written and spoken widely on NDEs. See http://www.garyhabermas.com/qa/qa_index.htm#nea, which has a section on "Near Death Experiences and Life After Death."

My point is that, for both NDEs and reincarnation, there is a large body of evidence that demands to be considered. It is not a mark of Christian faith or faithfulness to hide from reality.

In regard to reincarnation, the only Bible verse that truly appears to be contrary to the doctrine, and the one that is always cited, is the one I cited: Hebrews 9:27. As we see from the discussion above, the other verses that are arguably relevant can be read in a variety of ways. When Hebrews 9:27 is read in context, I think it is clear that reincarnation was not a topic on the table - but it says what it says, and the words are contrary to reincarnation. John 9:1-2 does sound as though the disciples had reincarnation in the back of their minds, but there are other explanations for the verses and it is a fact that, if the Jews had any notion of reincarnation at that time, this was limited to minor mystical sects. I think it is highly unlikely that the OT authors or the

I do find it simply "interesting," and at least worth thinking about, that reincarnation would completely resolve two major Christian issues: The problem of evil (and the seeming unfairness and arbitrariness of life), and the notion that billions of people are doomed to hell if they do not come to Christ in this lifetime (even though a great many of them have no realistic possibility of ever doing so, for reasons completely beyond their control). A countervailing consideration is that a belief in reincarnation might dilute the urgency of the Christian message and the need to make a decision for Christ NOW, before it's too late.

Not all ChristI and are like that. I have stated before that although I believe that Christ is necessary for salvation, (and the ones that believe automatically go to Heaven) I don't really believe that belief in Him is. Sure I believe that whoever doesn't believe stands condemned already, but that doesn't mean that acceptions and appeals can't be made. I'm not sure what I believe in God giving people or animals a second chance at life here on earth though.

 

[Randy]

Since Christianity in essence stems from Jeduaism , can we deduce from this that Bible reveals pre-existence?

Only Jesus can make that claim. Zech 12:1 supports the formation of the Spirit from the creator within the body which is in the womb. And the context is creating not who sinned.
A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person,
Psalm 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

Ezekiel 37 A metaphor show life being formed in the body not preexistence of a soul
Can these bones live. First the body is made then life is breathed into them by God.
Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breatha enter you, and you will come to life. 6I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’ ”

7So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’ ” 10So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.