Pat Robertson says all UFO believers should be stoned!

[prophecy4]

I agree that Pat is an idiot!!! UFOs are exactly what the name says "Unidentified Flying Objects" I personally believe these "aliens" are angels acting against the will of God, but again, they are "Unidentified" which means Pat is dumb for saying people who believe that theare are "UFOs" should be stoned.

 

[Sempill]

Come off it, he didn't say that, surely...? I asked Captain Blatifrischnoz of the Galactic Council of Esteemed Complainers if it was true and he was adamant as usual, but I still have my doubts...

Jari

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Pat is a loon and insists on proclaiming himself a spokesperson for God in the public eye. He then makes statements that are just ludicrous and inflammatory. He should be exposed. He is not above reproach.

 

[Kefka]

Pat is a loon and insists on proclaiming himself a spokesperson for God in the public eye. He then makes statements that are just ludicrous and inflammatory. He should be exposed. He is not above reproach.

I agree, but you can expose someone in a more mature way than:

"OMG Pat is an idiot! That moron believes something that I don't!"

Exposing who he is, is irrelevant to what you think of him... and if you let what you think of him get in the way, it becomes slander... and you're just insulting him behind his back. Not that I don't agree with you about Pat anyway.

 

[ArtGuy]

Exposing who he is, is irrelevant to what you think of him... and if you let what you think of him get in the way, it becomes slander... and you're just insulting him behind his back. Not that I don't agree with you about Pat anyway.

It's not slander if it's true. Pat routinely expresses smug satisfaction when innocent people suffer. He wishes harm upon those who believe differently than him. These things make him a bad person, plain and simple. God will have the final say come judgement day, but in the meantime it's in the best interests of us all if we point out the horrid, non-Christian traits that this guy possesses.

 

[Kefka]

It's not slander if it's true. Pat routinely expresses smug satisfaction when innocent people suffer. He wishes harm upon those who believe differently than him. These things make him a bad person, plain and simple. God will have the final say come judgement day, but in the meantime it's in the best interests of us all if we point out the horrid, non-Christian traits that this guy possesses.

Point it out if you must, but surely you must realize that it's not going to change him. And while you are passing out judgement, your own flaws and impurities will be festering. I prefer to work on my own problems than to try and change a man I do not know.

 

[Sempill]

Are you sure he didn't say, all UFO believers are stoned...?

 

[ArtGuy]

Point it out if you must, but surely you must realize that it's not going to change him. And while you are passing out judgement, your own flaws and impurities will be festering. I prefer to work on my own problems than to try and change a man I do not know.

Acknowledging that someone is a creep and recognizing your own flaws and striving to improve are not mutually exclusive. It's necessary for society to function that we acknowledge when people have done good and when they've done bad. I know that Pat will never change. He's too rich and powerful to do so, and he has enough people hoodwinked into thinking that he's God's gift to men that he could start personally stoning people and he would have his followers rallying behind him.

But if we, as Christians, point out his flaws, it serves several purposes. First of all, it establishes that we don't support his ridiculous rhetoric, which is good for PR, if nothing else. If more people stood against such shabby behavior, Christians wouldn't be reviled in so many circles. Second, it establishes that Christianity is a religion of love and goodwill, not hate and spite. This serves to welcome more people into the fold. Don't you think that many are turned away from the Lord because they think that Pat Robertson's portrayal of our beliefs is accurate?

When we stand by idly and allow others to tarnish what we stand for, we're complicit in all of the ill will it inspires. When people scorn, or mock, or kill in the name of Christ, we need to decry those behaviors loudly and ardently. We need to point out that this is not what we stand for, this is not what we believe, and this is not why Christ died for us.

 

[Kefka]

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I think it's pretty plain and simple what Jesus meant when he said that. There's a difference between calling someone on their behavior, and calling them petty names like stupid, idiot, bad person etc. Because I have only read a few of your posts, and most have been about condemning Pat Robertson... I could easily argue that you're a bad person. But I'm not arguing that at all, for it is not my place. You do not know who he is in real life, just who he portrays himself as on TV. I disagree with his teachings, but I'm not going to sit here and cast petty judgement on him, it's wrong.

Also, you said that you don't agree that we've all said something as bad as pat Robertson. You've never said you hated someone? You've never lied through your teeth? You've never manipulated? Swore? You have never cast ill judgement on a man you don't even know?

 

[ArtGuy]

There's a difference between calling someone on their behavior, and calling them petty names like stupid, idiot, bad person etc.

Are you saying that there's nobody in all of history you would feel comfortable decrying as a bad person? Nobody at all?

You do not know who he is in real life, just who he portrays himself as on TV.

Does it matter? If I go out and kill 50 people, but I generally donate to charity and I'm really nice to my friends, does that absolve me of the killings? How one acts in public, when one is capable of influencing the actions and attitudes, is at least as important as how one acts in private.

Also, you said that you don't agree that we've all said something as bad as pat Robertson. You've never said you hated someone? You've never lied through your teeth? You've never manipulated? Swore? You have never cast ill judgement on a man you don't even know?

I don't think any of those things are in the same league as reveling in the grevious misfortune of others, wishing death upon people, and encouraging millions of people to hate and condemn others. I don't know, perhaps you do those things as a matter of course. But I don't.

 

[Kefka]

Are you saying that there's nobody in all of history you would feel comfortable decrying as a bad person? Nobody at all?

Not until I'm free from my own sin, only then will I feel that I'm in a position to point out the faults of another.

Does it matter? If I go out and kill 50 people, but I generally donate to charity and I'm really nice to my friends, does that absolve me of the killings? How one acts in public, when one is capable of influencing the actions and attitudes, is at least as important as how one acts in private.

Yes, it is as important... but it's only like 10% of his life that he's on TV. And believe it or not, depending on how one acts in their private life, and the action in which the crime is carried out... they can be absolved from much responsibility of a crime, though I don't necessarily agree with it in those circumstances.

I don't think any of those things are in the same league as reveling in the grevious misfortune of others, wishing death upon people, and encouraging millions of people to hate and condemn others. I don't know, perhaps you do those things as a matter of course. But I don't.

Look at it this way, if you don't truly believe in Jesus... both you and Pat Robertson will be judged for your sins... do you think that you'd get any less of a punishment for those sins than Pat Robertson would get for his? If God will judge it that way, I'm not about to take it out of his context. When I repent I don't say, "Lord, I'm sorry for this... but I'm even more sorry for this. But look on the bright side Lord, Pat Robertson's sins are much worse than mine. My infidelity? Pffft, Pat Robertson wants to spread hate!"

Sin is sin, the worldly view of sin is irrelevant.

 

[ArtGuy]

Not until I'm free from my own sin, only then will I feel that I'm in a position to point out the faults of another.

Wow, it'd be really difficult raising a child when you can never tell him that he misbehaved. It must also be difficult to know that your friend has done something to hurt you, but you can't bring it up. Because that would be pointing out the faults of others, and that would be bad.

Look at it this way, if you don't truly believe in Jesus... both you and Pat Robertson will be judged for your sins... do you think that you'd get any less of a punishment for those sins than Pat Robertson would get for his? If God will judge it that way, I'm not about to take it out of his context. When I repent I don't say, "Lord, I'm sorry for this... but I'm even more sorry for this. But look on the bright side Lord, Pat Robertson's sins are much worse than mine. My infidelity? Pffft, Pat Robertson wants to spread hate!"

Sin is sin, the worldly view of sin is irrelevant.

On the contrary, the wordly view of sin is highly relevant. God tells us that we must obey the laws of man in addition to the laws of God, to the extent that they don't conflict. This does just mean to obey laws that are written down in the law books, but also social mores, customs, and general notions of goodness and decency. While we're on this Earth, we must pay attention to the our own notions of good and bad in addition to those of God. According to God, we're all sinners. According to men, though, there is good and bad, and these notions should be respected.

But all this is semantic. I don't think God would want us to refrain from pointing out the flaws of others when the aim is to rectify those flaws. If someone I know emotionally abuses his wife, I shouldn't ignore it under the guise of not wanting to step on God's toes. I should tell the guy to stop being a tool, I should tell the wife that she should leave this jerk, and I should tell my children that when they grow up, they must never behave like this. If we remain silent, we do nobody any good. If we publicly decry such actions, we help prevent them from happening in the future.

You may see no difference between yourself and Pat Robertson, or Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler, but that doesn't mean that no differences exist. And it's certainly not a bad thing to point out that perhaps wanting to pelt people with rocks, or exterminate an entire race, is maybe not such a hot idea.

 

[Kefka]

Wow, it'd be really difficult raising a child when you can never tell him that he misbehaved. It must also be difficult to know that your friend has done something to hurt you, but you can't bring it up. Because that would be pointing out the faults of others, and that would be bad.

First of all, I would ask that you refrain from your sarcastic comments. We are having a discussion, not hurling condescending statements at one another. Outside of this argument, you are nothing but a brother in christ to me. Second, I simply worded it wrong, I meant that I wouldn't condemn another for their sins (well, I'd prefer not to... we all do it.) Telling a child that he's misbehaving is not condemning him, it's letting him know.

On the contrary, the wordly view of sin is highly relevant. God tells us that we must obey the laws of man in addition to the laws of God, to the extent that they don't conflict. This does just mean to obey laws that are written down in the law books, but also social mores, customs, and general notions of goodness and decency. While we're on this Earth, we must pay attention to the our own notions of good and bad in addition to those of God. According to God, we're all sinners. According to men, though, there is good and bad, and these notions should be respected.

Perhaps, but then think about all the worldly customs that completely contradict the word of God. You can sacrifice your faith to "be polite" but I sure the heck won't. What if the world starts to view drugs and alcohol as a good thing? Will you just follow along because it's customary? The worldly view of sin... well the world is primarily sin. It's irrelevant... if you sa drinking's bad, and I say "My friend (assuming he's not christian) says that drinking's good for you." It's not valid, unless you take the word of man over the word of God.

But all this is semantic. I don't think God would want us to refrain from pointing out the flaws of others when the aim is to rectify those flaws.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I've agreed with you on this point many times now, but how is blatantly insulting someone pointing out their flaws? So you insult him with the aim to rectify his flaws? Something tells me that you'll have a difficult time with that.

If someone I know emotionally abuses his wife, I shouldn't ignore it under the guise of not wanting to step on God's toes. I should tell the guy to stop being a tool, I should tell the wife that she should leave this jerk, and I should tell my children that when they grow up, they must never behave like this. If we remain silent, we do nobody any good. If we publicly decry such actions, we help prevent them from happening in the future.

Firstly, telling the guy that he's a tool will NOT accomplish anything... guaranteed. It will make him mad, and perhaps he'll even take a round out of you. Also, you have no business telling her to leave him, you should pray for their marriage... for God's will to be done, it's none of your business whether their marriage fails or gets stronger. That being said, calling the police would be an honorable thing to do because you know her and care about her and THAT would prevent it from happening in the future, not calling him a tool. And yes, tell your children that... as a parent you would be morally obligated to.

Secondly, about calling the guy a tool... it has no bearing in this debate. That would be different, walking up to a man... insulting him, and walking away (or attempting to before he deals out a beating.) In Pat Robertson's case... you insulted him behind his back, you're not standing up to him, you're posting about him in an insulting manner. There's a difference.

You may see no difference between yourself and Pat Robertson, or Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler, but that doesn't mean that no differences exist. And it's certainly not a bad thing to point out that perhaps wanting to pelt people with rocks, or exterminate an entire race, is maybe not such a hot idea.

I never said that there wasn't a difference between me and Pat Robertson... I said that through God's eyes... his sins will be judged as ours would be. And YES, say that exterminating a race is insanely stupid! Explain why, post facts. THAT would make a difference long before calling Adolf Hitler a moron would.


Besides, if you feel you really need to point out that exterminating an entire race is bad... well it really makes you think about the kind of world we live in doesn't it?

Btw, I'm not trying to "boss you around" or get you to change you mind. I simply posted my thoughts, and have since been replying to you.

 

[ArtGuy]

First of all, I would ask that you refrain from your sarcastic comments.

I'm sorry, but I must say I find your attitude towards this frustrating and all too common. I'm constantly seeing people say that we shouldn't speak out against those who commit grave sins when those people happen to be Christian, but then turn around and talk about how non-Christians are awful people who deserve to burn in Hell. I'm not attributing this sort of extreme hypocricy to you, but I see it a lot. And when I hear someone tell me that I shouldn't point out the hurtful actions of another, when those actions are doing great damage to Christians and Christianity, it's difficult to maintain composure.

That, and I'm naturally sarcastic, even when I'm in a good mood.

Perhaps, but then think about all the worldly customs that completely contradict the word of God. You can sacrifice your faith to "be polite" but I sure the heck won't. What if the world starts to view drugs and alcohol as a good thing? Will you just follow along because it's customary? The worldly view of sin... well the world is primarily sin. It's irrelevant... if you sa drinking's bad, and I say "My friend (assuming he's not christian) says that drinking's good for you." It's not valid, unless you take the word of man over the word of God.

This entire paragraph is rendered completely irrelevant by the fact that I specifically stated that the law of man should be obeyed to the extent it doesn't conflict with the law of God.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I've agreed with you on this point many times now, but how is blatantly insulting someone pointing out their flaws? So you insult him with the aim to rectify his flaws? Something tells me that you'll have a difficult time with that.

As I said, there's no hope of anything I do having an effect on Pat's actions. None at all. I don't really maintain the fantasy that he's going to stumble across my post on a forum, and be moved to reconsider his actions by my eloquent prose. What I can possibly do is convince other Christians that they should steer clear of the man, and convince non-Christians that this man does not represent my views. In that regard, saying that he's an awful person isn't really counter-productive. Because he is. Or perhaps he's just insane. One way or the other, though, he does great harm in his actions, and I believe he's smart enough to know it, but doesn't care. And I don't think it's unreasonable to label someone who does knowingly does harm to further his own personal agenda of wealth and power as a bad person.

Firstly, telling the guy that he's a tool will NOT accomplish anything... guaranteed. It will make him mad, and perhaps he'll even take a round out of you.

I wouldn't use that precise phrase, as I'm sure you could figure out, but I would certainly point out how horrible he's acting. If he "takes a round out of me", so be it.

Also, you have no business telling her to leave him, you should pray for their marriage... for God's will to be done, it's none of your business whether their marriage fails or gets stronger.

...and that's just nonsense on stilts. When someone is abusing his spouse, the right thing to do is to help out the person being abused. There's no excuse for that, and God certainly doesn't require that women just sit around and suffer harm in order to preserve the sanctity of marriage. There's nothing sacred about abuse.

That being said, calling the police would be an honorable thing to do because you know her and care about her and THAT would prevent it from happening in the future, not calling him a tool.

So advising a woman to get out of an abusive marriage is bad, but calling the police and sending the guy to jail is good? If a woman is in such a relationship, she has emotional issues that need to be addressed. Calling the police won't do squat - the woman needs to talk to a friend or a counselor.

In Pat Robertson's case... you insulted him behind his back, you're not standing up to him, you're posting about him in an insulting manner. There's a difference.

Make you a deal - send Pat over to my house, and I will gleefully relate to him everything I've posted here. And your insinuation that I'm a coward is duly noted.

I never said that there wasn't a difference between me and Pat Robertson... I said that through God's eyes... his sins will be judged as ours would be. And YES, say that exterminating a race is insanely stupid! Explain why, post facts. THAT would make a difference long before calling Adolf Hitler a moron would.

Fair enough. Explaining why genocide is unwise is acceptable, but make sure you don't say that Hitler's a bad guy.

 

[Kefka]

There are a million more ways I could explain myself, but based on your response I still see that you don't understand what I'm trying to say. Anyhow, we must agree to disagree 8-)

 

[destiny]

Kefka, you said that you are only sixteen yet you seem to have more wisdom than these adults concerning integrity. Thats interesting. :wink:

 

[stansenemy]

re;pat robertson

he also said it was ok to murder other countries rulers,well i guess hes not telling the truth

 

[ArtGuy]

There are a million more ways I could explain myself, but based on your response I still see that you don't understand what I'm trying to say. Anyhow, we must agree to disagree 8-)

You shouldn't take my strong disagreement with your opinions as a sign that I don't understand what you're saying.

 

[Kefka]

I agree. But based on your arguments, and the points YOU were making... I think it was reasonable to conclude that you don't fully understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[ArtGuy]

I agree. But based on your arguments, and the points YOU were making... I think it was reasonable to conclude that you don't fully understand what I'm trying to say.

You were saying that regardless of one's sins, none of us are qualified to pass judgement, because none of us are free from sin. In the end, the only judgement that matters is that of God, and this is true whether we're talking about Mother Theresa or Hitler. We may speak out against actions, but we should remain silent on the worth of the actual people themselves, for that is not our jurisdiction.

Topically, while Pat Robertson may say horrible, vile things in public, that should be mitigated by how he behaves in private, towards his family, and towards his community. We should not judge him principally on how he portrays himself to the world at large, even if said portrayal results in much unpleasantness and suffering.

Is that about right?