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Paul returned to the Church of Jerusalem

Rob G

Member

I’m suremany have read this from scripture over the years and opted not to pursuebecause it did not fit a pattern already established.

Paulreturned to the Church of Jerusalem to report of How God had worked wondersamong the Gentiles. James the son of Mary, the mother of Jesus had become the churchleader. Instead of being overjoyed with this good news, they seemed offended. Hetold Paul not to be too quick to mention this to the members of the Church butto purify himself in Jewish custom and to give the appearance that he wasobedient to the Law

Acts 21:17-25

17 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters receivedus warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went tosee James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greetedthem and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through hisministry.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul:“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of themare zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that youteach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, tellingthem not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, sothat they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is notruth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedienceto the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have writtento them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols,from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.â€

A mysteryChristians have fail to see is that the Original Church continued to follow theLaw of Moses They were never called Christians they were called followers ofthe Way.

Acts 22:

Then Paul said: 3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up inthis city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law ofour ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today. 4 I persecuted the followers ofthis Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them intoprison, 5 as the highpriest and all the Council can themselves testify.

Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect.


If thebelievers in the Church of Jerusalem believed in the Christ are they Christiansor are they Jews because they follow the Law.

Jesussaid no one can come to the Father except by Me; But will they will they beJudged according to the law?

Thequestions are, why have Bible scholars/Christian fathers not included this partof the New Testament Christians teaching. Either they missed this or at somepoint determined these passages do not fit the pattern which was alreadyestablished or both.

However Ibelieve is by God’s design that this remains a mystery till now.


If we areunderstanding scripture correctly, how will Christians fit this Portion of theBible into our Christian foundational beliefs?
 
Acts 21:17-25 Is the actions of men and men doing it their own way. Paul, did not listen to God, he made up his own mind and went to Jerusalem. Paul was not to go to Jerusalem because the Jerusalem church was being disciplined by God. They were very religious and legalistic. Paul went to prison for this choice, 2 years were deserved and 2 years were undeserved.

Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

Acts 21:11-12~~11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" 12 When we had heard this, we as well as the local residents [began] begging him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Acts 21:14~~14 And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, "The will of the Lord be done!"

Paul was not to Go to Jerusalem. This was a mistake on Pauls part. Paul acted out of his EMOTIONS and not out of the will of God. And Paul was even warned that He would Go to Prison for His mistake.

So we have a glimpse of the Jerusalem Church and how religious and legalistic it was, and How it/they wanted to Put yokes on Paul and the Gentiles(And us, even to this day.)
 
Acts 21:17-25 Is the actions of men and men doing it their own way. Paul, did not listen to God, he made up his own mind and went to Jerusalem. Paul was not to go to Jerusalem because the Jerusalem church was being disciplined by God. They were very religious and legalistic. Paul went to prison for this choice, 2 years were deserved and 2 years were undeserved.

Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

Acts 21:11-12~~11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" 12 When we had heard this, we as well as the local residents [began] begging him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Acts 21:14~~14 And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, "The will of the Lord be done!"

Paul was not to Go to Jerusalem. This was a mistake on Pauls part. Paul acted out of his EMOTIONS and not out of the will of God. And Paul was even warned that He would Go to Prison for His mistake.

So we have a glimpse of the Jerusalem Church and how religious and legalistic it was, and How it/they wanted to Put yokes on Paul and the Gentiles(And us, even to this day.)


Are you saying the Church of Jerusalem which was managed by Peter and by the Apostles since the day of Pentecost,
lead by The Author of the Book of James were not Christian?
 
Acts 21:17-25 Is the actions of men and men doing it their own way. Paul, did not listen to God, he made up his own mind and went to Jerusalem. Paul was not to go to Jerusalem because the Jerusalem church was being disciplined by God. They were very religious and legalistic. Paul went to prison for this choice, 2 years were deserved and 2 years were undeserved.

Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

Acts 21:11-12~~11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" 12 When we had heard this, we as well as the local residents [began] begging him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Acts 21:14~~14 And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, "The will of the Lord be done!"

Paul was not to Go to Jerusalem. This was a mistake on Pauls part. Paul acted out of his EMOTIONS and not out of the will of God. And Paul was even warned that He would Go to Prison for His mistake.

So we have a glimpse of the Jerusalem Church and how religious and legalistic it was, and How it/they wanted to Put yokes on Paul and the Gentiles(And us, even to this day.)


Are you saying the Church of Jerusalem which was managed by Peter and by the Apostles since the day of Pentecost,
lead by The Author of the Book of James were not Christian?

Now how would you come to that conclusion with my post?

No. They were christians, they were just very religious and legalistic. And we see Peter and James come out of this legalistic and self righteous beginning to well rounded Christians in their later epistles.

2 Pet 3:16~~as also in all his(Paul) letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

James and Peter were Untaught of Pauls revelations in the beginning....Acts 21
 
Acts 21:17-25 Is the actions of men and men doing it their own way. Paul, did not listen to God, he made up his own mind and went to Jerusalem. Paul was not to go to Jerusalem because the Jerusalem church was being disciplined by God. They were very religious and legalistic. Paul went to prison for this choice, 2 years were deserved and 2 years were undeserved.

Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

Acts 21:11-12~~11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" 12 When we had heard this, we as well as the local residents [began] begging him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Acts 21:14~~14 And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, "The will of the Lord be done!"

Paul was not to Go to Jerusalem. This was a mistake on Pauls part. Paul acted out of his EMOTIONS and not out of the will of God. And Paul was even warned that He would Go to Prison for His mistake.

So we have a glimpse of the Jerusalem Church and how religious and legalistic it was, and How it/they wanted to Put yokes on Paul and the Gentiles(And us, even to this day.)


Are you saying the Church of Jerusalem which was managed by Peter and by the Apostles since the day of Pentecost,
lead by The Author of the Book of James were not Christian?

do you think Paul was supposed to go to Jerusalem?
 
Acts 21:17-25 Is the actions of men and men doing it their own way. Paul, did not listen to God, he made up his own mind and went to Jerusalem. Paul was not to go to Jerusalem because the Jerusalem church was being disciplined by God. They were very religious and legalistic. Paul went to prison for this choice, 2 years were deserved and 2 years were undeserved.

Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

Acts 21:11-12~~11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" 12 When we had heard this, we as well as the local residents [began] begging him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Acts 21:14~~14 And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, "The will of the Lord be done!"

Paul was not to Go to Jerusalem. This was a mistake on Pauls part. Paul acted out of his EMOTIONS and not out of the will of God. And Paul was even warned that He would Go to Prison for His mistake.

So we have a glimpse of the Jerusalem Church and how religious and legalistic it was, and How it/they wanted to Put yokes on Paul and the Gentiles(And us, even to this day.)


Are you saying the Church of Jerusalem which was managed by Peter and by the Apostles since the day of Pentecost,
lead by The Author of the Book of James were not Christian?

do you think Paul was supposed to go to Jerusalem?


It doesn’t matter what I think.

Paul was lead by the Holy Spirit; there were forces trying to discourage him.

Were these forces Godly or by demons.

When we start second guessing God’s purpose then we’re in trouble.

I’m only trying to figure out the meaning of inspired passages without bias.

It hard enough to stay away from“standard mainstream teaching”, trying to decipher with a clear mind with out bias using all and only scripture, not just parts of it.

You should be encouraging me, rather than finding fault.
 
Acts 21:17-25 Is the actions of men and men doing it their own way. Paul, did not listen to God, he made up his own mind and went to Jerusalem. Paul was not to go to Jerusalem because the Jerusalem church was being disciplined by God. They were very religious and legalistic. Paul went to prison for this choice, 2 years were deserved and 2 years were undeserved.

Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

Acts 21:11-12~~11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" 12 When we had heard this, we as well as the local residents [began] begging him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Acts 21:14~~14 And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, "The will of the Lord be done!"

Paul was not to Go to Jerusalem. This was a mistake on Pauls part. Paul acted out of his EMOTIONS and not out of the will of God. And Paul was even warned that He would Go to Prison for His mistake.

So we have a glimpse of the Jerusalem Church and how religious and legalistic it was, and How it/they wanted to Put yokes on Paul and the Gentiles(And us, even to this day.)


Are you saying the Church of Jerusalem which was managed by Peter and by the Apostles since the day of Pentecost,
lead by The Author of the Book of James were not Christian?

do you think Paul was supposed to go to Jerusalem?


It doesn’t matter what I think.

Paul was lead by the Holy Spirit; there were forces trying to discourage him.

Were these forces Godly or by demons.

When we start second guessing God’s purpose then we’re in trouble.

I’m only trying to figure out the meaning of inspired passages without bias.

It hard enough to stay away from“standard mainstream teaching”, trying to decipher with a clear mind with out bias using all and only scripture, not just parts of it.

You should be encouraging me, rather than finding fault.

Did I find fault?

I am trying to encourage you my friend. You are reading those passages from a wrong point of view.

My question to you was to make one think.

Forces trying to discourage him?....Acts 21:4~~4 After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

The reason we KNOW that this was the Holy Spirit is because believers can't be possessed by a Spirit other than the Holy Spirit.

I am sorry, I never meant to offend you. I gave you my rendition, it does not fit your rendition. It wasn't given to "find Fault". If my rendition is true, it shows you your faulty thinking. If mine is incorrect it shows me my faulty thinking.
 
Not taking a side here just a offer of an idea...

Paul not being perfect ... following his own will his own thinking while believing he was being lead of God ....does that not fit so many of us today. Could God be showing us the mercy and grace of Jesus through Paul being human...?
 
Not taking a side here just a offer of an idea...

Paul not being perfect ... following his own will his own thinking while believing he was being lead of God ....does that not fit so many of us today. Could God be showing us the mercy and grace of Jesus through Paul being human...?

I think you are correct Reba. Whats even more remarkable of God grace, is I believe Paul KNEW God did not want him to Go. And Paul,even being defiant to the Spirit, still had Gods mercy and Grace.

Paul knew He was an Apostle to the Gentiles, and Pauls biggest struggle through his life was the love He had for His Jewish brothers and Jerusalem.

The Jerusalem church was stagnant and not moving, starving spiritually and Physically because of the religion and legalism, and it wanted to put Paul under all of it!
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.
 
If it was the Lords Will for Paul to visit the Church Believers in Christ, is it also the Lord’s Will for the Church of Jerusalem to continue to be zealous for the Law.

Does this mean they are considered Jews or Christian?
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB
 
If it was the Lords Will for Paul to visit the Church Believers in Christ, is it also the Lord’s Will for the Church of Jerusalem to continue to be zealous for the Law.

Does this mean they are considered Jews or Christian?

If they are in Christ they are Christians.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

God bless you brother.


JLB
 
If it was the Lords Will for Paul to visit the Church Believers in Christ, is it also the Lord’s Will for the Church of Jerusalem to continue to be zealous for the Law.

Does this mean they are considered Jews or Christian?

Yes. They were both, as was Paul.
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Wrong. The Holy Spirit clearly told Paul NOT to go, but Paul and his zeal for his countrymen decided he knew best.

JLB
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

Paul in His zeal for his countrymen, thought that he alone was best equipped to bring the Gospel to his own countrymen.

After all he was a Pharisee of Pharisee's, taught by Gamaliel, and understood the Jewish mind as well as any.

Later we see these amazing words -

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 1 Corinthians 2:1-5

God had decided in His wisdom to use a lowly unlearned fisherman, who had denied Christ rather than face the Pharisee's, to demonstrate His power through in Jerusalem, not the wisdom of Paul's background.

Thank God for Paul and his excellent wisdom of the Old Testament, through whom The Spirit of God wrote most of the New Testament, that we Gentiles would understand the deep things of God.


JLB
 
Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

There was a purpose for Paul to go to Jerusalem. One reason is for documentation, for us Christians understand and know all that Lord inspires for His purpose. Who can understand the Mind of God?
Here we are bickering over whether Paul should have gone to Jerusalem or not.
What is the point of Act 21; It is this, that we should have a full understanding what the Church in Jerusalem lead by the apostles of Jesus Christ was doing and with passion.
We cannot say they were right or wrong, or whether Paul did right or wrong; it is God’s choice. All things work for the good to those who love the Lord.

The Christian destiny has been determined, they are set for eternity with Christ.

Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!
In saying this, the God has hardened the hearts of Jew until a specific time until something happens.

The following scriptures apply to the Jews.

Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Romans 11:25
[ All Israel Will Be Saved ] I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

The following is a future event
Hebrews 8:8
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
 
Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

There was a purpose for Paul to go to Jerusalem. One reason is for documentation, for us Christians understand and know all that Lord inspires for His purpose. Who can understand the Mind of God?
Here we are bickering over whether Paul should have gone to Jerusalem or not.
What is the point of Act 21; It is this, that we should have a full understanding what the Church in Jerusalem lead by the apostles of Jesus Christ was doing and with passion.
We cannot say they were right or wrong, or whether Paul did right or wrong; it is God’s choice. All things work for the good to those who love the Lord.

The Christian destiny has been determined, they are set for eternity with Christ.

Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!
In saying this, the God has hardened the hearts of Jew until a specific time until something happens.

The following scriptures apply to the Jews.

Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Romans 11:25
[ All Israel Will Be Saved ] I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

The following is a future event
Hebrews 8:8
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

Paul made a mistake in going against what The Spirit had told him.

It was not God's will for him to go.

No amount of "explanation" is going to change what the scriptures teach us.

Paul himself was consumed with passion for reaching the Jews.

For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, Romans 9:3

This passion led him to make this mistake, however well intended it might have been.

Paul learned he was not the Messiah to the Jews.


JLB
 
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