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Paul's Gospel.

S

Soma-Sight

Guest
Romans 2:16 (King James Version)

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 
2 Timothy 2:8 (King James Version)

8Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

 
I'll help you out:

Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Rom. 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you

2 Cor. 11:7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God's gospel to you free of charge?

Gal. 1:11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.

Etc.
 
Free said:
I'll help you out:

Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Rom. 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you

2 Cor. 11:7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God's gospel to you free of charge?

Gal. 1:11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.

Etc.


So in Soma's quotes by Paul....Paul claims that it is his gospel......

Paul claims that the gospel is his....
Paul claims that any other gospel than his is anathema....
Paul claims to have had "mysteries" revealed to him....
Paul claims to preach "not man's gospel" but one given to him alone....usually revealed in the form of a vision...


All those are gnostic based claims are they not?......Paul has the mystery knowledge that leads to salvation....It was revealed only to him in vision....Why was the mystery knowledge that was revealed only to him not revealed to the 12 disciples.....?
 
Paul and Jesus
- their teachings -

An honest reading of the New Testament shows that Paul did not teach a new religion. The foundation stones for Christianity are patently taken from the Old Testament, Judaism generally, and the life of a historical figure named Jesus.

A careful study of the Epistles and the Gospel reveals that the source of Paul’s teachings on salvation was the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus. A simple comparison of both Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings will demonstrate the point:

Paul, similar to Jesus, taught that Christianity was a fulfillment of Judaism.

Jesus declared: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17). Jesus added, “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law†(Luke 16:16-17).

Paul’s teaching: The Christ of Paul and Jesus is utterly at home in Judaism. Paul wrote to the Romans: “Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4). He added in Colossians, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ†(Colossians 2:16-17).

Both Paul and Jesus taught that human beings are sinners.

Jesus declared: “I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them†(Mark 3:28). He added in John, “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins†(John 8:24).

Paul declared: All human beings are sinful, insisting that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God†(Romans 3:23). He added in Ephesians, “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins†(Ephesians 2:1). Indeed, part of the very definition of the Gospel was that “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures†(1 Corinthians 15:3).

Both Jesus and Paul insisted that the shed blood of Christ was necessary as an atonement for our sins

Jesus proclaimed: “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many†(Mark 10:45). He added at the Last Supper, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins†(Matthew 26:28).

Paul is just as emphatic: He affirmed that “In him [Christ] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace†(Ephesians 1:7). In Romans he added, “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us†(Romans 5:8). Referring back to the Old Testament Passover, he said, “Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed†(1 Corinthians 5:7).

Jesus and Paul also taught that the death and burial of Jesus was completed by his bodily resurrection

Jesus said: “He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third dayâ€Â’ (Luke 24:46). Jesus challenged, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.... But the temple he had spoken of was his body†(John 2:19, 21).
After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken (John 2:22; 20:25-29).

Paul’s teaching: The apostle Paul also stressed the need of the resurrection for salvation. To the Romans he wrote: “He [Jesus] was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification†(Romans 4:25). Indeed, Paul insisted that belief in the resurrection was essential to salvation, writing, “That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved†(Romans 10:9).

Jesus and Paul taught salvation is by grace through faith.

Jesus affirmed that every person needs God’s grace. Jesus’ disciples said to him, “Who then can be saved?†Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible†(Matthew 19:25-26). All through the Gospel of John Jesus presented only one way to obtain God’s gracious salvation: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life†(John 3:36; 3:16; 5:24; Mark 1:15).

Paul taught salvation by grace through faith, affirming, “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast†(Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-7). He added to the Romans, “To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness (Romans 4:5).

Conclusion:

A comparison of the teachings of Jesus and Paul on salvation reveals clearly that there is no basis for speculating on any source of Paul’s teachings other than that of Jesus. Christianity was rooted in Judaism. Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... djesus.htm

:) :) :) :)
 
So in Soma's quotes by Paul....Paul claims that it is his gospel......

Paul claims that the gospel is his....
Paul claims that any other gospel than his is anathema....
Paul claims to have had "mysteries" revealed to him....
Paul claims to preach "not man's gospel" but one given to him alone....usually revealed in the form of a vision...


All those are gnostic based claims are they not?......Paul has the mystery knowledge that leads to salvation....It was revealed only to him in vision....Why was the mystery knowledge that was revealed only to him not revealed to the 12 disciples.....?

Very interesting!

His vision and subsequent conversion were totally Gnostic style!

Nice work.
 
Georges said:
Free said:
I'll help you out:

Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Rom. 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you

2 Cor. 11:7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God's gospel to you free of charge?

Gal. 1:11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.

Etc.


So in Soma's quotes by Paul....Paul claims that it is his gospel......

Paul claims that the gospel is his....
Paul claims that any other gospel than his is anathema....
Paul claims to have had "mysteries" revealed to him....
Paul claims to preach "not man's gospel" but one given to him alone....usually revealed in the form of a vision...


All those are gnostic based claims are they not?......Paul has the mystery knowledge that leads to salvation....It was revealed only to him in vision....Why was the mystery knowledge that was revealed only to him not revealed to the 12 disciples.....?
The point is that Paul's gospel is the same as the gospel of Christ and the same gospel as all the other Apostles. Paul's mystery was that both Jews and Gentiles were reconciled to God through Christ. By "his" gospel it is very likely that Paul simply meant the gospel that he himself preached. Paul also indicates that he speant time in Jerusalem with some of the Apostles in order to be taught.
 
I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to get out of this. Paul is not talking about his personal message in Romans 2:16 but the message of "Gospel" of Christ.

Go to Matt. 16:19. Christ says to peter "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven". What is the one thing that unlocks the way to heaven? What are those keys? The Gospel of Christ, to find out what that message was go back up to verse 16 where peter says "You are the Christ(savior), the Son of the living God"

Now, 2Tim is just the same thing but in a different part of the Gospel of Christ. Christ was ressurected right? He arose on the third day.

The thing that I see you constantly do Soma, is something i call "Pick-and-Pull". Where you just pick random verses out and bend what it is truly saying. You must read the whole context, know who it's being presented to, and understand why it is being written. Do not just "Pick-and-Pull" scripture. That is what false teachers do or apostates do. They "listen only to what tickles their ear" as paul would say.
 
Soma-Sight said:
So in Soma's quotes by Paul....Paul claims that it is his gospel......

Paul claims that the gospel is his....
Paul claims that any other gospel than his is anathema....
Paul claims to have had "mysteries" revealed to him....
Paul claims to preach "not man's gospel" but one given to him alone....usually revealed in the form of a vision...


All those are gnostic based claims are they not?......Paul has the mystery knowledge that leads to salvation....It was revealed only to him in vision....Why was the mystery knowledge that was revealed only to him not revealed to the 12 disciples.....?

Very interesting!

His vision and subsequent conversion were totally Gnostic style!

Nice work.

How easily you are misled Soma-Sight. To me, it only shows how shallow your SDA teaching has made your Christianity.

I repeat:

.....Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... djesus.htm

:-?
 
How easily you are misled Soma-Sight. To me, it only shows how shallow your SDA teaching has made your Christianity.

I repeat:

.....Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... djesus.htm

lol....

At least I am not a minority... :wink:

Keep researching Gary, maybe someday you will realize that slavery is antiChrist along with male dominance and egotism in the conservative Church today.....

All of which PAUL proclaimed and JESUS did not.


In the excellent book Christ or Paul?, the Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore wrote:


"Let the reader contrast the true Christian standard with that of Paul and he will see the terrible betrayal of all that the Master taught.... For the surest way to betray a great Teacher is to misrepresent his message.... That is what Paul and his followers did, and because the Church has followed Paul in his error it has failed lamentably to redeem the world.... The teachings given by the blessed Master Christ, which the disciples John and Peter and James, the brother of the Master, tried in vain to defend and preserve intact were as utterly opposed to the Pauline Gospel as the light is opposed to the darkness."


The great theologian Soren Kierkegaard, writing in The Journals, echoes the above sentiment:


"In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Atoner. What Martin Luther, in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ. Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down, making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ."


The brilliant theologian Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul, wrote:

"True Christianity, which will last forever, comes from the gospel words of Christ not from the epistles of Paul. The writings of Paul have been a danger and a hidden rock, the causes of the principal defects of Christian theology."


"Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of Christ.... Through these interpretations Paul could neglect the actual life and sayings of Jesus, which he had not directly known.... Paul replaced conduct with creed as the test of virtue. It was a tragic change."


Robert Frost, winner of the Pulitzer prize for poetry in 1924,1931,1937 and 1943, in his "A Masque of Mercy", wrote:

"Paul, he's in the Bible too. He is the fellow who theologized Christ almost out of Christianity. Look out for him."


James Baldwin, the most noted black American author of this century, in his book The Fire Next Time, declared:

"The real architect of the Christian church was not the disreputable, sunbaked Hebrew (Jesus Christ) who gave it its name but rather the mercilessly fanatical and self-righteous Paul."


Martin Buber, the most respected Jewish philosopher of this century, wrote in Two Types of Faith:


"The Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount is completely opposed to Paul."


The famous mystic, poet and author, Kahil Gibran, declared in Jesus the Son of Man:


"This Paul is indeed a strange man. His soul is not the soul of a free man. He speaks not of Jesus nor does he repeat His Words. He would strike with his own hammer upon the anvil in the Name of One whom he does not know."


Above, the great Gibran, accurately reported something that I noticed when I first read the epistles of Paul as a youngster: PAUL DOES NOT QUOTE FROM THE WORDS OF JESUS! (Even before the gospels were written, all initiated Christians were instructed in the sayings of Jesus.) When you read the epistles of Paul, the Father of mainstream Christianity, all you get is Paul's own ideas; he never quotes the wise sayings of Jesus, he never reports on the life of Jesus. That point is also made by the famous theologian Helmut Koester, in his The Theological Aspects of Primitive Christian Heresy:



"Paul himself stands in the twilight zone of heresy. In reading Paul, one immediately encounters a major difficulty. Whatever Jesus had preached did not become the content of the missionary proclamation of Paul.... Sayings of Jesus do not play a role in Paul 's understanding of the event of salvation.... Paul did not care at all what Jesus had said.... Had Paul been completely successful very little of the sayings of Jesus would have survived."


Although I have amply demonstrated that Schonfeld and Larson's fourth assertion -- that Paul replaced the teachings of Jesus with his own very different teachings -- enjoys the support of many great thinkers, I am going to let the avalanche of supporting quotations continue to fall upon the reader a bit longer. But not without good reason. Because I am going to end this article with a call for Christians to abandon Paulianity and embrace Essene Christianity, I must provide OVERWHELMING SUPPORT FOR THE ASSERTION THAT PAUL BETRAYED THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF JESUS. And since many of the evangelical Christians currently under the yoke of Paul (instead of Jesus) are patriotic Americans, how about the following quotation from Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and author of the Declaration of Independence; he wrote in his "Letter to William Short":



"Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."


The renowned English philosopher Jeremy Bentham, in his Not Paul But Jesus, declared:



"It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere."


The eminent theologian Ferdinand Christian Baur, in his Church History of the First Three Centuries, wrote:



"What kind of authority can there be for an 'apostle' who, unlike the other apostles, had never been prepared for the apostolic office in Jesus' own school but had only later dared to claim the apostolic office on the basis on his own authority? The only question comes to be how the apostle Paul appears in his Epistles to be so indifferent to the historical facts of the life of Jesus.... He bears himself but little like a disciple who has received the doctrines and the principles which he preaches from the Master whose name he bears."


The great Mahatma Gandhi, the prophet of nonviolence who won freedom from England for India, in an essay titled "Discussion on Fellowship", wrote:

"I draw a great distinction between the Sermon on the Mount of Jesus and the Letters of Paul. Paul's Letters are a graft on Christ's teachings, Paul's own gloss apart from Christ's own experience."


Carl Jung, the famous Swiss psychiatrist, wrote in his essay "A Psychological Approach to Dogma":

"Saul's [Paul's name before his conversion] fanatical resistance to Christianity... was never entirely overcome. It is frankly disappointing to see how Paul hardly ever allows the real Jesus of Nazareth to get a word in."


As you can see, I am quoting from the intellectual cream of humanity. A few more and I will consider my point to be made. Let us continue with George Bernard Shaw, winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1925; in his Androcles and the Lion, we read:



"There is not one word of Pauline Christianity in the characteristic utterances of Jesus.... There has really never been a more monstrous imposition perpetrated than the imposition of Paul's soul upon the soul of Jesus.... It is now easy to understand how the Christianity of Jesus... was suppressed by the police and the Church, while Paulinism overran the whole western civilized world, which was at that time the Roman Empire, and was adopted by it as its official faith."


Let us follow that Nobel prize winner with another. Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize, has been called "one of the greatest Christians of his time." He was a philosopher, physician, musician, clergyman, missionary, and theologian. In his The Quest for the Historical Jesus and his Mysticism of Paul he writes:

"Paul... did not desire to know Christ.... Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded.... What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?.... The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority.... The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."


William Wrede, in his excellent book Paul, informs us:

"The obvious contradictions in the three accounts given by Paul in regard to his conversion are enough to arouse distrust.... The moral majesty of Jesus, his purity and piety, his ministry among his people, his manner as a prophet, the whole concrete ethical-religious content of his earthly life, signifies for Paul's Christology nothing whatever.... The name 'disciple of Jesus' has little applicability to Paul.... Jesus or Paul: this alternative characterizes, at least in part, the religious and theological warfare of the present day."


Rudolf Bultman, one of the most respected theologians of this century, wrote in his Significance of the Historical Jesus for the Theology of Paul:

"It is most obvious that Paul does not appeal to the words of the Lord in support of his.... views. When the essentially Pauline conceptions are considered, it is clear that Paul is not dependent on Jesus. Jesus' teaching is -- to all intents and purposes -- irrelevant for Paul."


Walter Bauer, another eminent theologian, wrote in his Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity:

"If one may be allowed to speak rather pointedly, the Apostle Paul was the only Arch-Heretic known to the apostolic age."


My point has been made. Schonfeld and Larson were quite correct in their assertion that PAUL REPLACED THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS WITH HIS OWN VERY DIFFERENT TEACHINGS. I have supported that assertion with powerful quotations from the intellectual cream of humanity. But before moving on to the next assertion in our list of six from Larson and Schonfeld, I choose to end this section on a humorous note (at least I find it humorous!). This rather humorous and certainly true quotation comes from another Nobel Prize winner; Ernest Hemingway:



"That Saint Paul.... He's the one who makes all the trouble!"


Do I hear a chuckle?




http://www.essene.org/Yahowshua_or_Paul.htm
 
LOL.... you hear a HUGE laugh...

More NASE (New Age Scrambled Eggs)

:roll:

Instead of reading ABOUT the Bible or all the anti-Christian websites you visit, rather READ and STUDY the Bible.

:)
 
Gary said:
An honest reading of the New Testament shows that Paul did not teach a new religion. The foundation stones for Christianity are patently taken from the Old Testament, Judaism generally, and the life of a historical figure named Jesus.

A careful study of the Epistles and the Gospel reveals that the source of Paul’s teachings on salvation was the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus. A simple comparison of both Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings will demonstrate the point




A comparison of the teachings of Jesus and Paul on salvation reveals clearly that there is no basis for speculating on any source of Paul’s teachings other than that of Jesus. Christianity was rooted in Judaism. Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... djesus.htm

So Gary claims that Christianity, the notion of Christian salvation, are grounded in Judaism. But this looks like dubious propaganda, as Gary doesn't seem to be able to defend his position. Indeed, when Gary recently started a thread-

Blood atonement - our Lord Jesus Christ
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 58&start=0

Gary said:
Some skeptics and non-believers on these forums have already questioned the fact that Jesus is the blood atonement required by God for sin and forgiveness.

Is the shedding of blood central to atonement in the OT?

It seems that he was demolished by einstein, and then he bolted from the discussion! So I have my doubts that Gary is actually interested in providing us with accurate or honest information.
 
Gary said:
How easily you are misled Soma-Sight. To me, it only shows how shallow your SDA teaching has made your Christianity.

I repeat:

.....Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... djesus.htm
Well, all we can do is present the gospel Gary, but we should never quarrel or fight over something no matter what they believe. This quote came from man. Now, if you are going to say Some, that the bible was wrtten by man, you are correct, but remember this: The bible was inspired by God. The Holy Spirit indwelled these men and led them to say exactly what God intended them to say. You Soma, quote men, most of the time if not all, that are apostates. You yourself are led to believe these teachings of apostates. Therefore Soma, I will show you love as a person, but the demonic teachings that you hold so close to yourself, will be your tomb.

People do not understand how serious false teaching is and how it can damage believers and unbelievers alike. If you do not understand scripture or pretend to understand, DO NOT POST OR REFER TO SCRIPTURE. Now I am not a Mod, so i can not enforce this, but as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and as a faithful servant to Him, I am warning others to flee from these beliefs that Soma so openly shares.
 
You Soma, quote men, most of the time if not all, that are apostates. You yourself are led to believe these teachings of apostates. Therefore Soma, I will show you love as a person, but the demonic teachings that you hold so close to yourself, will be your tomb.

When you got to Church do the women speak in it?

Do they keep their heads covered?

Is it ok to promote mass slaughter houses and the unethical treatment of animals for your pork sandwhich?

Do you make sure your slave knows that God wants him to serve you well because you are a Christian?

Do you consider vegetarians "weak" and "unSpiritfilled" because they follow the path of the Essene's which is what JESUS WAS.

If so then you are a true follower of Paulianity.

Research for yourself the insanity of believing that God inspired Paul to write "we are to subject ourselves to ANY government because God put it there!

Go Nazi Germany!

You literalists need to take a second look at just what you believe because anyone with a good heart knows that all I just wrote about Sauls teachings are BUNK!
 
People do not understand how serious false teaching is and how it can damage believers and unbelievers alike. If you do not understand scripture or pretend to understand, DO NOT POST OR REFER TO SCRIPTURE. Now I am not a Mod, so i can not enforce this, but as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and as a faithful servant to Him, I am warning others to flee from these beliefs that Soma so openly shares.

Fear.

Once a little of your beliefs are shaken it returns to the old threats and false prophet protocol.

Give me a break.

Read up on the history of the Church yourself and see how "inspired" it was.

Mass slaughters of essenes and Gnostics and the burning of other scriptures which may have held Truth which is lacking in the Church today.

Look at the World!

It is consuming itself with greed and pollution and "Christian" leaders are at the top of the pile.

More species of plant and animal have died in the last 100 years than in the history of life itself.

Your fruits betray you. You spend money for plush pews but fail to see the millions dying from AIDS and war in Africa and other "pagan" countries.

But Iraq, oh yes Iraq must be "freed" by our "Evangelical" president because he wants them to find Jesus and be Free.

Tell that to the 30,000 dead civilians in the name of your Holy War.

The more I research... the more I see how much LIES people believe and how much HATE there is in the body of Belivers.
 
I've been suspicious of certain of Paul's writings for ages. Is being 'suspicious' of Paul a 'no-no' within Christian circles? Does it automatically disqualify one from claiming to BE a Christian?
 
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