Re: "Thorn in the Flesh"
This doesn't make any sense. You're saying the things he takes pride in is what God allows to continue to keep him humble.
Yes, Paul list 2 different catagories of things, his infirmities (which he refered to in chapter 11 as all these distress), and his revelations and visions (which he received from the Lord). And this is what he says... " If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities."
He could glory in the things that build him up and make him seem like such a holy man of God, but rather, he glories in the things that make him weak.
It makes much more sense that all the things he says can take pride in and boast about in chapter 11...
"I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27 I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked." (2 Cor. 11:23-27 NIV1984)
...are actually the things, along with his privileged revelations, that the "thorn in (his) flesh, a messenger of Satan" (2 Cor. 12:7 NIV1984) is allowed to keep doing to keep him from becoming conceited about and taking pride in. Understand?
Yes, I understand. But I think you confuse and combine the infirmities and the revelations and visions. Paul said that if he is going to glory in something, it is not going to be his revelations and visions from the Lord, but the things that are humiliating, like public floggings, hungering and thirsting, being naked, ect.
As I said before, persecutions tend to be more of a source of pride than they are a humbling. Paul shows us that very clearly in chapter 11. And to keep Paul from being conceited in his outstanding exploits for the sake of the kingdom and the incredible revelations he has received from God he says God allows a messenger of satan to torment him in his flesh. Makes perfect sense.
If you think persecutions are a source of pride I may gentle suggest you have never been persecuted, as Paul clearly states that his infirmities (which the Lord refered to as weakness) is humbling, not something to be proud of. People calling you a liar, ridiculing, beating, ect is a very humbling experience.
This is why it's hard to see the sufferings for the kingdom themselves as the messenger of satan that keeps him humble. Paul says his sufferings for the kingdom are a source of boasting for him, not a source of humility. Thus the need for some other kind of suffering to keep him from boasting in that which he can. A physical illness or limitation, or personal struggle would do that...not a continuation of that which he can take pride in.
Again, Paul did not want to boast, he says he has become a fool in boasting just for doing it, but if he is going to boast, he will boast about his weaknesses, infirmities, distresses, reproaches, and necessities (12: 9-11), and not his revelations and visions. He says if he must boast, then it will be in the things that keep him humble.
One thing further, that I believe proves that Paul's thorn in the flesh was all these fleshly things he was suffering. Paul states that lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh....
Paul didn't say that lest he should be exalted above measure through the abundance of suffering for Christ.
Then Paul says he besought the Lord 3 times that this thorn in the flesh should be taken away. And the Lord said, my grace is suffecient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Then Paul says, Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities. Then in the next verse he goes on to explain what all those infirmities include, this is what he says: Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
See, the Lord told him that this thorn in the flesh is what makes him weak, so that the Lord's strength could be revealed. And Paul says that all these infirmities and reproaches and necessities and persecutions and distresses for Christ's sake makes him weak, but ironically, that is when he is strong.
Some may say it doesn't make sense, but it makes perfect sense.
