Paul's "thorn in the flesh"

[Mitspa]

you made the claim about folks being healed from the sweat of his brow..know i ask for scripture
you think??????????????

Well I do not answer to folks who are being rude!
If anyone else, is interested? I will be glad to show the scripture for which I used a "part" of my point.

Here is a good scripture that shows the power that Paul had!
Acts 13:8-11
But Elymus the sorcerer, withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from faith.
9 then Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, set his eyes upon him,
10 and said, O full of all subtility and mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of righteousness, will you not cease from perverting the right ways of the Lord?
11 And behold the Hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a darkness, and he went about seeking someone to lead him by the hand.

So, who can compare themselves with Paul and the power upon him, from the Living God?

This was and is my point!

Pride makes one claim the thorn of Paul! religious pride and unbelief.

 

[reba]

care to show scripture to back that up. paul did no healing God worked through him

I think any honest person knows that I made no claim that Paul as a man, did anything! He was the Apostle of Christ Jesus! Everboby should understand that?

I will let you look up the scripture, I think all know and understand the scripture and the point I was making.

Mitspa did not need to use the word honest but this should have been settled with the reply.....any more personal attacks will be deleted.

 

[ezra]

Well I do not answer to folks who are being rude!
If anyone else, is interested? I will be glad to show the scripture for which I used a "part" of my point.

Here is a good scripture that shows the power that Paul had!
Acts 13:8-11
But Elymus the sorcerer, withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from faith.
9 then Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, set his eyes upon him,
10 and said, O full of all subtility and mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of righteousness, will you not cease from perverting the right ways of the Lord?
11 And behold the Hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a darkness, and he went about seeking someone to lead him by the hand.

So, who can compare themselves with Paul and the power upon him, from the Living God?

This was and is my point!

Pride makes one claim the thorn of Paul! religious pride and unbelief.

The sweat from his brow could heal the sick

i asked for scripture that showed this ----->The sweat from his brow could heal the sick....

So, who can compare themselves with Paul and the power upon him, from the Living God?

has nothing to do with my post of question of your claim..paul done many a great things in his ministry through God. paul not once boasted on the things done.. {in order that, as it is written: The one who boasts must boast in the Lord}

 

[Deborah13]

you made the claim about folks being healed from the sweat of his brow..know i ask for scripture
you think??????????????

Acts 19:11-15

King James Version (KJV)

11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

 

[Mitspa]

Acts 19:11-15

King James Version (KJV)

11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

Thank you Deb!

notice also that the "hankerchief" and "apron" had touched his body?

Strongs says that the word "soudarion" translated as "hankerchief" is the Latin word for SWEAT CLOTH for wiping prespiration from the face.

Now why is that so important?

Because sweat from man is a sign of the curse that came upon us when Adam brought us into sin

Now the Lord did sweat His Own blood in the garden, to redeem us from this curse.

Now Paul said that he labored more abundantly than all? By the grace He was given. So then his very sweat was from grace! This is why the point was made about his sweat cloth.

That even our sweat can heal and cast out evil spirits, when we labor by grace! But under law and the curse The sweat is a sign of sin.

God bless you Deb!

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you Deb!

notice also that the "hankerchief" and "apron" had touched his body?

Strongs says that the word "soudarion" translated as "hankerchief" is the Latin word for SWEAT CLOTH for wiping prespiration from the face.

Now why is that so important?

Because sweat from man is a sign of the curse that came upon us when Adam brought us into sin

Now the Lord did sweat His Own blood in the garden, to redeem us from this curse.

Now Paul said that he labored more abundantly than all? By the grace He was given. So then his very sweat was from grace! This is why the point was made about his sweat cloth.

That even our sweat can heal and cast out evil spirits, when we labor by grace! But under law and the curse The sweat is a sign of sin.

God bless you Deb!

Mitspa, thank you for sharing this.

This is an amazing revelation! I have never heard this put together.

 

[Free]

The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

Agreed. This is most likely what Paul's thorn was, although we can't say for certain.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa, thank you for sharing this.

This is an amazing revelation! I have never heard this put together.

Thanks Deb!

 

[ezra]

Acts 19:11-15

King James Version (KJV)

11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

still need the scripture of of people healed from sweat of paul brow.

 

[Deborah13]

still need the scripture of of people healed from sweat of paul brow.

handkerchief = soudarian Strongs #4676 - 1 ) a handkerchief 2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose

apron = simikinthion #4612 - 1) a narrow apron, or linen covering, which workmen and servants were accustomed to wear

From the scripture we see that they were not clean but taken from his body. What do you think was on them from Paul?

What does sweat represent in the word but work. Jesus sweat blood. His blood, our atonement. Paul worked to deliver the gospel.

 

[ezra]

handkerchief = soudarian Strongs #4676 - 1 ) a handkerchief 2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose

apron = simikinthion #4612 - 1) a narrow apron, or linen covering, which workmen and servants were accustomed to wear

From the scripture we see that they were not clean but taken from his body. What do you think was on them from Paul?

What does sweat represent in the word but work. Jesus sweat blood. His blood, our atonement. Paul worked to deliver the gospel.

i fully understand what handkerchiefs and aprons and i understand labor. { What do you think was on them from Paul?} i give up you tell me. his Body fluids have nothing to do with the healing it was all the power of God... i simply asked for scriptures to back this up. i gave scriptures to show my point on paul thorn in the flesh... nor have i discounted the miracles.. which was not of paul ..but Christ in him the Hope of Glory i see no place in scripture paul taking credit for any thing. his boasting was in the Cross of Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

i fully understand what handkerchiefs and aprons and i understand labor. { What do you think was on them from Paul?} i give up you tell me. his Body fluids have nothing to do with the healing it was all the power of God... i simply asked for scriptures to back this up. i gave scriptures to show my point on paul thorn in the flesh... nor have i discounted the miracles.. which was not of paul ..but Christ in him the Hope of Glory i see no place in scripture paul taking credit for any thing. his boasting was in the Cross of Christ.

The point that it was the GRACE OF GOD, WAS MADE CLEAR! The point that it was Gods power has been made clear! The truth was presented in an honest way. Whoever wants to heed the truth can? Whoever wants to reject the truth? you have free-will! lol

 

[ezra]

The point that it was the GRACE OF GOD, WAS MADE CLEAR! The point that it was Gods power has been made clear! The truth was presented in an honest way. Whoever wants to heed the truth can? Whoever wants to reject the truth? you have free-will! lol

lol and you still have not produced the scriptures i asked for . my point is if i make a post i will do my best to back it up by scripture when asked . its like anointing the sick with oil. the oil has no power its symbolic its the prayer of faith asking for God to heal in jesus name...

 

[Mitspa]

lol and you still have not produced the scriptures i asked for . my point is if i make a post i will do my best to back it up by scripture when asked . its like anointing the sick with oil. the oil has no power its symbolic its the
prayer of faith asking for God to heal in jesus name...

Well again the scripture was posted and the point made clear!
Its like alot of things, some can see and some cannot? Now others seem to see clearly the point?

That which was taken from Pauls body, had power to heal and cast out evil spirits. Now if the point about the sweat is too far a reach for your understanding? Then dont accept it. My point still stands and is clear, at least to some.

I do not hold that I must make a case to you, nor convince you of anything. But the point I made speaks for itself. Those who have ears to hear, can hear the truth.

Do you not see that sweat is a picture of the curse? Do you not understand why Christ sweat drops of blood in the garden? Do you not understand that Paul LABORED by the Grace of God? Was it not decribed by Strongs as a sweat cloth? Did the scripture not say that it was taken from his physical body? Do you claim to understand the anointing of God and decide how it works? Did the Lord Himself not spit and heal with spit?
I wonder if Paul did greater works? For it is written!

Or can it be that you just dont like my veiw and are looking to find fault in anything I might have to say?

 

[ezra]

Or can it be that you just dont like my veiw and are looking to find fault in anything I might have to say?

nahhhhhhhhhhhhh i just don,t agree thus i asked for scripture and you have not produced any .

 

[Mitspa]

nahhhhhhhhhhhhh i just don,t agree thus i asked for scripture and you have not produced any .

Well Deb13 posted the scriptures I was speaking of! I have made serveral comments on those scriptures. I have laid out the point I made, very clear!

If the scipture was posted? and it was! and discussed in an honest and open way? which it was! Then again it seems you are just trying to cause strife and debate?

Now I can understand that you do not see the scriptures as I do? I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong? Ok!

but to act as if it has not been laid out in an open way? I find to be very ungodly and dishonest.

 

[eddif]

This all kind of reminds me of a radio pastor in the 70's (?). A friend of his often said "every tub got to sit on it's own bottom". The radio pastor used the phrase in a sermon. The radio pastor was contacted that the bible did not have that in it. The radio pastor appologised ...period... Now I would see the tabernacle vessels sitting on their own base as being the same statement, but we do not all think the same. If the pastor had argued about the validity of his statement, the discussion might have continued throughout the 80's - 90's and even till today.

Thank God he is the God of all people. It is faith in what we believe about Jesus that works. If we do not eat food offered to idols (as unto God) we are accepted by God. If we are free to eat food offered to idols because the idols are nothing... then... we are accepted by God. Sometimes the arguments are futile. I understand my conversations are very similar, and at times I just need to shut up (my flesh wants to go on and on).

eddif

 

[Mitspa]

This all kind of reminds me of a radio pastor in the 70's (?). A friend of his often said "every tub got to sit on it's own bottom". The radio pastor used the phrase in a sermon. The radio pastor was contacted that the bible did not have that in it. The radio pastor appologised ...period... Now I would see the tabernacle vessels sitting on their own base as being the same statement, but we do not all think the same. If the pastor had argued about the validity of his statement, the discussion might have continued throughout the 80's - 90's and even till today.

Thank God he is the God of all people. It is faith in what we believe about Jesus that works. If we do not eat food offered to idols (as unto God) we are accepted by God. If we are free to eat food offered to idols because the idols are nothing... then... we are accepted by God. Sometimes the arguments are futile. I understand my conversations are very similar, and at times I just need to shut up (my flesh wants to go on and on).

eddif

The scriptures are there for all to see! not talking about setting on a pot! relating the two, seems a little odd to me?

 

[CORE]

Now a couple reasons are given why some are sick and why some are not healed? All are because of a lack of knowledge or a lack of faith!

Some people just get sick and die...and it may or may not be because of a lack of faith. That's just life in this fallen world. The wages of sin is death and it is appointed unto men once to die.

I may have the faith to be healed today, but then die tomorrow having even greater faith...so then what was the purpose of my healing? Was it not just a glimpse of the glorious riches in Christ to strengthen the faith of those who witnessed the miracle so as to give hope for the ultimate healing when our fallen bodies are finally redeemed and dwell in the presence of God in eternal perfection?

 

[ezra]

Some people just get sick and die...and it may or may not be because of a lack of faith. That's just life in this fallen world. The wages of sin is death and it is appointed unto men once to die.

I may have the faith to be healed today, but then die tomorrow having even greater faith...so then what was the purpose of my healing? Was it not just a glimpse of the glorious riches in Christ to strengthen the faith of those who witnessed the miracle so as to give hope for the ultimate healing when our fallen bodies are finally redeemed and dwell in the presence of God in eternal perfection?

core that just about sums up how i believe my mother was glorious healed of cancer.. but died from Alzheimer . there has been many men/ women of God with strong faith that passed away from sickness. my gpa cooper died from cancer and did his best to live a Godly life. i have seen healing take place in church services ..I WOULD NEVER DISCOUNT DENY THE HEALING POWER OF GOD . to many to day think they are a modern day apostle Paul. i love the book of acts AND SOME THINGS THAT TOOK PLACE I CAN NOT EXPLAIN OTHER THAN IT WAS OF GOD. we should never say to someone sick you don,t have enough faith to be healed . thus my reason for disagreeing as for pauls thorn in the flesh impo it was all those who opposed him. one thing for sure what ever it was His Grace was sufficent