Pedophile/Statutory

[theLords]

Are you really trying to compare lying to pedophilia? If you think sin is all equal, i disagree. I was reading the Bible the other day and i stubled across a verse that said that people would be punished according to what they had done. I dont think God thinks of all sin equally like we think he does.

In the big picture all sin is sin, all sin is equal to all sin, as in one little lie will not allow you to enter heaven, and molesting children will not allow you to enter heaven. Both sinners need the blood of Christ to cover their sin.

When it comes to the punishment/consequences of sin, YES you are correct, they do not have equal consequences. From my Biblical understanding, there will be different degrees of hell. (Someone else will have to post the Scripture for you. I'm drawing a blank.) Think of a guy like Hitler, (where is Hitler, we can only guess, but I won't do that) he committed genocide against millions of people. His ideologies are still alive some 60/70? years later! He is not only responsible for his sins, but he is responsible for tempting others to sin. Sin is like a ripple effect on a pond, it can keep going and going, effect generation after generation. Do I hope in my heart that he had a death bed conversion? Absolutely, but who knows... Now a guy like Hitler is different from a guy like Joe Smith who spent his entire life drinking in the pub. Think of it this way. We are both Christians. Neither one of us has killed an abortion doctor, yet non-Christians love to remind us about these type of incidents. The sin of those "Christians" punish us and we deal with the consequences. Not fair is it? :bigfrown

Pedophilia is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It ruins lives in a permanent manner.

I once read a Christian book that said that sexual immorality is such a horrible sin because you sin against the body and the spirit (like you rape the body and the spirit). I don't know how Biblical that thought is, but it has left me wondering and reflecting on that statement for years now.

 

[theLords]

I have absolutely no sympathy for people who take advantage of, or condone the rape of children. I always tell myself that eternal damnation is immoral, but I think I can make an exception for people like you.

Atheistic thinking at it's finest.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Atheistic thinking at it's finest.

Well, that was said in the moment, because I cannot stand it when people try to justify raping children. I do not believe eternal punishment for finite evils is ethical. Yet, I am surprised you label my reasoning as "atheistic." You said, "molesting children will not allow you to enter heaven," so apparently my thinking is quite Christian there.

 

[theLords]

Well, that was said in the moment, because I cannot stand it when people try to justify raping children. I do not believe eternal punishment for finite evils is ethical. Yet, I am surprised you label my reasoning as "atheistic." You said, "molesting children will not allow you to enter heaven," so apparently my thinking is quite Christian there.

If you are referring to Ashua's post, he was in no way advocating for the rape of children. If I remember correctly, he stated that his post was not for the atheist/nonChristian etc. etc. but I'll defer to him to explain himself as he would do it better than I.

If a child molester seeks forgiveness through the blood of Christ he is welcomed into heaven. Unrepented sin will not allow anyone to enter heaven.

Your reasoning is atheistic and not Biblical because you decide who enters into heaven or hell by your own subjective morality. In your secular morality hell is immoral, except when applied to child molesters. It's all based on feelings.

 

[Oats]

you guys are unmerciful


everything you guys said should happen to you


my uncle molested me and i forgave him

another one was framed

-----

you guys lust in you hearts....it's the same

furthermore some pedophiles don't physically touch kids....

there are some who fear for their life

if you can be born gay, you can be born a pedophile

-----


Yes they are horrible sinners, but so is everyone else


i don't believe in degrees of hell

 

[Alabaster]

In the big picture all sin is sin, all sin is equal to all sin, as in one little lie will not allow you to enter heaven, and molesting children will not allow you to enter heaven. Both sinners need the blood of Christ to cover their sin.

When it comes to the punishment/consequences of sin, YES you are correct, they do not have equal consequences. From my Biblical understanding, there will be different degrees of hell. (Someone else will have to post the Scripture for you. I'm drawing a blank.) Think of a guy like Hitler, (where is Hitler, we can only guess, but I won't do that) he committed genocide against millions of people. His ideologies are still alive some 60/70? years later! He is not only responsible for his sins, but he is responsible for tempting others to sin. Sin is like a ripple effect on a pond, it can keep going and going, effect generation after generation. Do I hope in my heart that he had a death bed conversion? Absolutely, but who knows... Now a guy like Hitler is different from a guy like Joe Smith who spent his entire life drinking in the pub. Think of it this way. We are both Christians. Neither one of us has killed an abortion doctor, yet non-Christians love to remind us about these type of incidents. The sin of those "Christians" punish us and we deal with the consequences. Not fair is it? :bigfrown

Pedophilia is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It ruins lives in a permanent manner.

I once read a Christian book that said that sexual immorality is such a horrible sin because you sin against the body and the spirit (like you rape the body and the spirit). I don't know how Biblical that thought is, but it has left me wondering and reflecting on that statement for years now.

Good post.

 

[Billnew]

I think marrying in young teens was comon into the 1920's? Maybe thirtys?

We don't have one comon age to legally marry. Even statutory rape varies across the states.
Some states 15 yr olds can marry, some states having sex with someone under 16 is stat rape. Some states the number is 18.

I think in some states if you marry, you can have sex. Even if they have not reached puberty. I assume parental consent is required.
Some states an 18 yr old having a continuing sex life with a girl that has not reached her 18th birthday can be charged with stat rape, even if she is only days away from that birthday. Some states if the older person is within 2 yrs of the younger it isn't a crime or it is just a misdemeanor.
It all depends on the state.

Mary was young, I don't know for sure how old. She was to be married so I would assume near puberty. 13 to 15?
With longer lives we don't have to get girls pregnant to maintain the population, we don't have faminine, epidemics, or near as many wars as they did then.
Women can actually do something besides pop kids out without the possibility of families lines becoming extinct.

Adam and Eve only had to listen to the one's law. They couldn't even do that.
Thats a discussion in itself.
But also, humans lived hundreds of years then, so I would assume they aged slowly. Wait, they aged after the fall from grace, before they didn't age, if I remember right. So they could have been real old, and looked as young as ever.
How long did they stay in Eden?

 

[Gendou Ikari]

If you are referring to Ashua's post, he was in no way advocating for the rape of children. If I remember correctly, he stated that his post was not for the atheist/nonChristian etc. etc. but I'll defer to him to explain himself as he would do it better than I.

The way I understood Ashua's post was that it is okay for an adult to marry a child who has reached puberty. Hence, he wrote, "The least biased arbiter I can think of to decide when the age of consent should be is biology itself. Puberty = sexual biological activation." Since children do not have the capacity to truly consent (as we learn through modern scientific-psychology), marrying a 13-year-old is rape!

If I have misrepresented his position, I apologise, and I am sure he will correct me.

If a child molester seeks forgiveness through the blood of Christ he is welcomed into heaven. Unrepented sin will not allow anyone to enter heaven.

I never said that child molesters cannot be forgiven.

Your reasoning is atheistic and not Biblical because you decide who enters into heaven or hell by your own subjective morality. In your secular morality hell is immoral, except when applied to child molesters. It's all based on feelings.

I would argue that all morality is ultimately based upon emotion, but I already explained that child molesters do not deserve eternal damnation. The only reason I care if children are raped, is because I have an emotional preponderance towards children's well-being.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

you guys are unmerciful


everything you guys said should happen to you


my uncle molested me and i forgave him

another one was framed

Forgiveness is a good thing, as long as he truly asked for forgiveness and was sorry for what he had done.

you guys lust in you hearts....it's the same

furthermore some pedophiles don't physically touch kids....

there are some who fear for their life

if you can be born gay, you can be born a pedophile

The difference is that homosexuality is not rape. Anyway, I am not saying that all people who have paedophilia are bad people. You become bad when you give into it (e.g. by watching child porn) or act on your feelings (i.e. raping a child). We cannot help our sexual fetishes, but we can work on controlling our feelings. For instance, I know that even though I am committed to women's rights and anti-trafficking/prostitution, I can gain sexual gratification through the degradation of women. If I act on that, by buying for sex or something akin to that, I become a bad person. Ethics must come before instinctual drives.

 

[theLords]

I have absolutely no sympathy for people who take advantage of, or condone the rape of children. I always tell myself that eternal damnation is immoral, but I think I can make an exception for people like you.

I would argue that all morality is ultimately based upon emotion, but I already explained that child molesters do not deserve eternal damnation. The only reason I care if children are raped, is because I have an emotional preponderance towards children's well-being.

Now you are just contradicting yourself, hence, why your morality is based upon emotions, whereas, for a Christian, morality is based upon Absolute Truth. When your emotions dictate that child molesters should receive eternal damnation you go with that, and when your emotions change and dictate that child molesters should not receive eternal damnation you go with that. It's based on feelings and whims and is tossed to and fro.

 

[jasoncran]

gendou, if i posted pics of cosgrove like you wouldnt that make you feel uncomfortable , i am old enough to be her dad,

somehow, i dont think in this thread its (being diplomatic) wise for you talk about children and defending them when you dont have kids and love watching a minor act when in my county you could be charged with statutatory rape even at the age 18 if the parents wanted to push that.
and i have seen it done.

 

[handy]

I was a victim of a pedophile...and I believe that there is a huge difference between pedophilia and statutory rape. To arrest a kid who's 18-19 years old and is sleeping with a 17 year old girlfriend is ridiculous. To force him to register as a sex offender is a mockery of the purpose of a registry which is to alert society to a dangerous individual.

I also would hesitate to say that any 13 year old who is married and truly loves the one she is married to is being raped. I say this since my grandmother married my grandfather when she was 13 and he was 17. They were married until she died at the age of 82 (or 83 for some reason I can't remember) a very long and very happy marriage that survived the Depression, WW2, and the basic "for better and for worse" stuff that life thows at a marriage. I know my own 13 year old daughter would dearly love to be married to the guy of her dreams if her parents and the State of Idaho (not to mention the young man in question) would allow it.

I agree with the laws here in Idaho, which is that there must be no more than three years difference in age between consenting sexual partners. Having that 3 years rule protects young 18-19 year old guys from facing criminal charges if they have a 16-17 year old girlfriend.

Obviously being forced into a marriage is a different story. Forced marriage would indeed constitute rape, and the problem with allowing marriage at such a young age is that some cultures could force young girls into marriage at that age, and the peer pressure to accept it could be so great that the girl would have no options. I'm sure we all remember the whole incident with the Fundamental LDS church a couple of years ago.


Pedophillia is a horrible crime, and yes, I can personally attest to the fact that it forever changes a child. But, it is not an unforgivable sin. I certainly forgave the one who did it to me and the ability to forgive him healed me. In my case, I'm glad that the person wasn't found out and we were able to deal with it between the two of us when I was old enough to do so. I think if the law had gotten involved, it would have restricted my ability to move forward with my own healing. Even as a young child, as confused as I was, I knew that if I told a teacher or the police, they would step in and it would stop. I made a conscious decision not to do that, which, at the ripe old age of 6 might not have been the best decision, but to this day, if I had to go back, I'm not sure I would handle it differently.

But, that was me. In other cases, the law is most definitely needed. I'm a huge supporter of Jessica's law, the law that states that first offenders of child rape is an automatic 25 year sentence. This would get dangerous pedophiles off the streets.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Now you are just contradicting yourself, hence, why your morality is based upon emotions, whereas, for a Christian, morality is based upon Absolute Truth. When your emotions dictate that child molesters should receive eternal damnation you go with that, and when your emotions change and dictate that child molesters should not receive eternal damnation you go with that. It's based on feelings and whims and is tossed to and fro.

Ugh, you are totally misrepresenting my position. You have never said something in the heat of the moment, based upon temporary emotion that contradicted your Absolute Truth ethic?

 

[theLords]

Ugh, you are totally misrepresenting my position. You have never said something in the heat of the moment, based upon temporary emotion that contradicted your Absolute Truth ethic?

Mmmmmm? No, I don't think so because then it is no longer Absolute Truth. (I suppose I may have, but my emotions don't change what Absolute Truth is.)

But this statement further goes to show that subjective morality is based in emotions, and emotions are whimsical.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

gendou, if i posted pics of cosgrove like you wouldnt that make you feel uncomfortable , i am old enough to be her dad,

somehow, i dont think in this thread its (being diplomatic) wise for you talk about children and defending them when you dont have kids and love watching a minor act when in my county you could be charged with statutatory rape even at the age 18 if the parents wanted to push that.
and i have seen it done.

I definitely would be a little weirded out, so I guess I understand all the attention my avatar is getting. Perhaps it would help if I explain why I use Cosgrove as my avatar, so often. When I was 19, I turned on Nickelodeon and starting watching the series iCarly that she stars on. And, for the fist-time in my life, I started to look at kids like kids (not as peers). A few years ago, I would have been attracted to her, but I didn't feel anything like that. All I felt were these parental and guardian-like emotions. And, it felt nice to feel something that wasn't linked to the sexual dimension. I always wanted a little sister, especially after learning that my Mom miscarried a daughter. If you want to go all Freudian, you could say with that revelation, I am substituting for something that is lacking in my life, which I could have had.

You don't have to believe me, and maybe I wouldn't if I was you, but it's the truth. There is nothing more I can say, really.

 

[jasoncran]

i am not stating that to be vindicitive and i do understand, when i married my wife, i renounced my desire for children as my wife didnt want kids and she had a partial hysterrectomy one year into our marriage as that was needed to be done.

i wouldnt mind adoption but i cant make my wife want to deal with raising a child as i would have to work and she would do the rearing alone at times.

if a person wants kids then its all or nothing.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

i am not stating that to be vindicitive and i do understand, when i married my wife, i renounced my desire for children as my wife didnt want kids and she had a partial hysterrectomy one year into our marriage as that was needed to be done.

i wouldnt mind adoption but i cant make my wife want to deal with raising a child as i would have to work and she would do the rearing alone at times.

if a person wants kids then its all or nothing.

It's not fair to have a kid and then be wishy-washy about your commitment to children. Too many people (religious and secular) get married early and have kids because that's what you're supposed to do, which inevitably leads to divorce and neglect. Your kids are supposed to be the most important things in your lives. They are meant to be an existential externality. If you can't provide that, than don't have kids in the first place.

 

[Oats]

It's not fair to have a kid and then be wishy-washy about your commitment to children. Too many people (religious and secular) get married early and have kids because that's what you're supposed to do, which inevitably leads to divorce and neglect. Your kids are supposed to be the most important things in your lives. They are meant to be an existential externality. If you can't provide that, than don't have kids in the first place.

my mom wasn't fully committed to us, but that's not the worst thing

God takes care of his people

my mom should've be more committed to the lord

 

[Gendou Ikari]

my mom wasn't fully committed to us, but that's not the worst thing

God takes care of his people

my mom should've be more committed to the lord

Didn't Jesus say that those who are his people will suffer, or something to that effect. Even as a Heathen, I do not buy the prosperity theology. Both Paul and Jesus made it very clear that God does not secure material stability for believers.

And as a heathen, I would flip you concern on its head. Your Mom should have been more committed to you first. Since God is love, and taking care of your child is one of the greatest expressions of love, you are committed to God in the process.

 

[jasoncran]

Didn't Jesus say that those who are his people will suffer, or something to that effect. Even as a Heathen, I do not buy the prosperity theology. Both Paul and Jesus made it very clear that God does not secure material stability for believers.

And as a heathen, I would flip you concern on its head. Your Mom should have been more committed to you first. Since God is love, and taking care of your child is one of the greatest expressions of love, you are committed to God in the process.

if a man hateth not his mother and father he cant be my disciple. that means God is above parents

oats is saying by loving God above him his parents could then love him better.

if i put my wife first above God then i simply dont love as i ought.

when i see her in God's eyes then i can love her to the fullest and will be willing lay my wants aside for her.

its commanded that i as a man do that. i love her for her and married her not for what i get but for what i saw in her and i could give.

when i really have fully grasped that and live it then i have been a good husband.