Persecution

[mutzrein]

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."-1 John 5:12

"This is the true God, and eternal life."-1 John 5:20

My knowledge of God is through the risen Christ. I have not seen Him (in person) but I have believed and this believing has come about by God's grace and the out-pouring of His spirit to me. I am no whit deserving of anything from God, yet He has made known His love to me in no uncertain manner. I am a man of the flesh, but I am also a man of the Spirit who is not handicapped by the indoctrination of the church or those who seek to bind me by telling me how to interpret scripture. God is my teacher.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Paraphrasing:
Jesus has given us understanding that we may know God. And we are in Him (God) and we are even in His son Jesus. This is the true God that Jesus has given us understanding of and eternal life is in Him.

 

[gingercat]

Persesutions occur by power and the majority. The RCC persecuted Christians because they protested and questioned about what they are doing. RCC did horrible things to those opposed them.

It seems that the mainstream chruches are doing the same thing that the RCC did. Of course they are too smart to do exactly the same thing by murdering or imprisoning the opposers but nonetheless what they are doing is persecution. Calling other Christians non-believer and anti-Christ who don't agree with them about the Trinity or don't attend church building is nothing but persecution.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Persesutions occur by power and the majority. The RCC persecuted Christians because they protested and questioned about what they are doing. RCC did horrible things to those opposed them.

It seems that the mainstream chruches are doing the same thing that the RCC did. Of course they are too smart to do exactly the same thing by murdering or imprisoning the opposers but nonetheless what they are doing is persecution. Calling other Christians non-believer and anti-Christ who don't agree with them about the Trinity or don't attend church building is nothing but persecution.

You need to look up the definition of persecution. The simple fact is Christians simply speak the truth about Jesus. They proclaim a Jesus that is found in Scripture who is fully man and fully Godâ€â€a"...the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father" (John 1:18).

The New Testament warns about false prophets and false teachings on Christ. The Christian churches of today are merely speaking against such falseness.

 

[gingercat]

(John 1:18).

The New Testament warns about false prophets and false teachings on Christ. The Christian churches of today are merely speaking against such falseness.

I believe the doctrin of trinity is false. The Judge is Jesus. When you call other Christians non-believers and anti-Christ, it is nothing but persecution. The RCC said the same things: they are right and whoever oppose them are heretics.

 

[Sothenes]

When you call other Christians non-believers and anti-Christ, it is nothing but persecution. The RCC said the same things: they are right and whoever oppose them are heretics.

Who was John persecuting then? How was John mistreating others by calling the Gnostics anti-Christ?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Paul says, to "mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."-Romans 16:17

Wouldn't you be persecuting non-Christians if you followed the Bible? How is it mistreatment to mark others?

"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:"- 2 John 1:10

I interpret this verse to mean not to give someone a platform to teach non-Christian doctrine. I wouldn't mind inviting Jehovah's Witnesses into my house if we were alone but it means that we shouldn't let them teach in our church.

You can call it persecution but if we're right then it isn't loving the sheep to let non sheep in and I don't think I will see the day when the Watchtower will let me come in and teach my doctrine. So if we're wrong to not let the Jehovah's Witnesses in church to come teach then the Watchtower is wrong for the same reasons.

 

[gingercat]

You are just making excuses by using the Bible. The Bible should be used to be obedient and good deeds for His purspose. Do you really look at the Christians' fruit?

How we look at other Christians are different by each individuals, too. Why are you judging other Christians by your standard? I am using the Bible too, you know? You are not the only one that studying the Bible.

The Bible is our examples to follow and do the dood deeds. When Christians who trully showing obvious fruit and yet you still persecute by saying they are hertics, you are certainely wrong. All good deeds comes from God. How can you say other Christians they are heretics even though they are showing obviouse fruit? When they are caliming to be christians and showing good fruit, God surely working through them.

I believe what you are doing to your opposers are wrong and Jesus is the Judge.

This exclusiveness should be stopped. At least I will not let anyone intimidate me with this kind of persecution. Jesus is my Lord, too. I am His servant, and I am proud of being His follower.

I hope you reexamine why this kind of hypocrisy is going on.

 

[Sothenes]

You are just making excuses by using the Bible. The Bible should be used to be obedient and good deeds for His purspose. Do you really look at the Christians' fruit?

How we look at other Christians are different by each individuals, too. Why are you judging other Christians by your standard? I am using the Bible too, you know? You are not the only one that studying the Bible.

The Bible is our examples to follow and do the dood deeds. When Christians who trully showing obvious fruit and yet you still persecute by saying they are hertics, you are certainely wrong. All good deeds comes from God. How can you say other Christians they are heretics even though they are showing obviouse fruit? When they are caliming to be christians and showing good fruit, God surely working through them.

I believe what you are doing to your opposers are wrong and Jesus is the Judge.

This exclusiveness should be stopped. At least I will not let anyone intimidate me with this kind of persecution. Jesus is my Lord, too. I am His servant, and I am proud of being His follower.

I hope you reexamine why this kind of hypocrisy is going on.

Gingercat, Princess Diana has a greater means than you and I did and probably did more good than you and I will ever do but Princess Diana also went to psychics and was dating a muslim. The idea that certain people get cart blanch because "might equals right" is wrong. If her fruit was evident then is going to psychics and dating/marriage in opposition to 2 Corinthians 6:12-14 ok then? You said that all good deeds come from God but it doesn't follow that going to psychics is alright even though it is widely reported through the media that is what Princess Diana did.

We can say that people are heretics based on their theology. Let me point out that I haven't called you a heretic but what I'm defending is my theology.

You said that we can't call people a heretic and you said that you are using the Bible too. The truth is that the bible says,"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"-Titus 3:10

Christians did certainly reject heresy regardless of the good that heretics do. And the Bible doesn't say that all good deeds only come from God (I think I know the verse where you are getting that) but the bible says,"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts ..." (Matthew 7:11) then evil people can do good deeds as well.

 

[gingercat]

You said that we can't call people a heretic and you said that you are using the Bible too. The truth is that the bible says,"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"-Titus 3:10

Please read the OP. Why are mainstream churches excluding JW as cult? They are not showing any bad practices like most of the denominations.

It seems very clear to me that you are trying to focuss away from OP.

 

[Sothenes]

You said that we can't call people a heretic and you said that you are using the Bible too. The truth is that the bible says,"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"-Titus 3:10

Please read the OP. Why are mainstream churches excluding JW as cult? They are not showing any bad practices like most of the denominations.

It seems very clear to me that you are trying to focuss away from OP.

After hearing debates for years about the definition of 'cult', a cult is a group that claims to be Christian that isn't. A cult is a group that denies the essentials of the Christian faith. A cult also denies the true historicity (parts) of the Christian faith.

Faithful denominations to the Bible will follow Galatians 1:8-9 which means that if someone preaches another gospel or a gospel alongside of the Bible then we are supposed to let them be accursed which is what the verses themselves say.

 

[gingercat]

Christians did certainly reject heresy regardless of the good that heretics do.

If you are excluding Christians because they don't agree with your theology is not right. Where is your spirit of discernment?

 

[Sothenes]

Christians did certainly reject heresy regardless of the good that heretics do.

If you are excluding Christians because they don't agree with your theology is not right. Where is your spirit of discernment?

Jehovah's Witnesses believe in another Jesus. If you believed that you were taking aspirin and took cynanide by accident, the medicine you took can't save you no matter how sincere or how good you are.

 

[gingercat]

Faithful denominations to the Bible will follow Galatians 1:8-9 which means that if someone preaches another gospel or a gospel alongside of the Bible then we are supposed to let them be accursed which is what the verses themselves say.

I have talked to the JW and I did not see any Un-christian or un-Biblical traits. What is main streamchurches are doing to them, other non-trinitarians and non-churchgoers are nothing but persecution. Please stay on the topic.

I am faithful Jesus' follower and I don't just believe one part of the Bible. I try to understand the whole Bible and be obedient to It as much as I can.

How many of your congregation truly being faithful and loyal to Jesus seriously? You have to examine your own congregation instead of excluding other faithful Christians just because they don't agree with your thology or interpretations.

 

[mutzrein]

You need to look up the definition of persecution. The simple fact is Christians simply speak the truth about Jesus. They proclaim a Jesus that is found in Scripture who is fully man and fully Godâ€â€a"...the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father" (John 1:18).

The New Testament warns about false prophets and false teachings on Christ. The Christian churches of today are merely speaking against such falseness.

And is that the sort of falseness that comes with scriptural interpretations which are based on a false premise? If your premise is 'Jesus is God' then you will go looking to interpret scripture that way.

John 1:18 (KJV) No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Now please note I am not a JW nor a supporter of all of their doctrines. Some beliefs, like many commonly accepted within Christendom I agree with, but others I reject. My foundation is Jesus Christ.

When I look at others and what they believe, I look at their foundation - at what they have built on. No matter what they say and how good the words may sound, if the foundation is wrong then whatever else is built on it will fail when the foundation cracks. If someones or some churches foundation leads to a righteousness that is not of faith then the foundation is faulty. Those who say I must believe and say as they do, in order to achieve righteousness before God are not building on a righteousness that is by faith.

My faith is born of God. It is a gift of God. Having been born of the Spirit of God I know and confess that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. My confession is the result of my birth not the other way around.

 

[Imagican]

But Noc,

I have yet to witness those that deny 'trinity' denying that Christ has come in the flesh. I openly testify that Christ has come in the flesh, yet I accept NO 'trinity'.

Now, what about this: 'there will come a time when those that accept Christ will be cast out of the synagogues, and they will murder these believing that they do the will of God. This will be possible only because they know neither the Father nor the Son. Not, Father/Son, but Father NOR the Son.

And Noc, as I have stated before, if one 'decides' to make a god out of something that ISN'T God, isn't that a 'false idol'. A 'false god', and therefore of none effect except to bring about the 'wrath' of God?

As stated by Mutz, I have yet to find a place in the Word that states that ANYONE MUST accept 'trinity' in order to know Christ or receive salvation. As a matter of fact, I find much that indicates that we are to 'shun' man-made theology and accept only sound teachings that have been brought to us by Christ and His apostles.

So, I see that ginger has a point of sorts in her creating this thread. The idea that 'trinity' MUST be accepted is nothing different than the CC stating that one MUST follow 'their' teachings or be lost. Or that the Pope has the power to grant or deny one's salvation. This is lunacy. For there is NO man that is able to 'play the part of God'. Many that would 'try' for the sake of their own pride, but still only capable of 'pretending'.

It's about love folks, and there IS NO LOVE when one would try to deny the gift that they aren't even responsible for. For who can deny what Christ has offered? This is EXACTLY what the RCC tried to do. In order to control the people, they taught them that they alone held the keys to heaven and hell, all they while not even knowing the truth about either. For one COULD NOT know the 'truth' and teach and perpetuate hate instead of love.

 

[gingercat]

It's about love folks, and there IS NO LOVE when one would try to deny the gift that they aren't even responsible for. For who can deny what Christ has offered? This is EXACTLY what the RCC tried to do. In order to control the people, they taught them that they alone held the keys to heaven and hell, all they while not even knowing the truth about either. For one COULD NOT know the 'truth' and teach and perpetuate hate instead of love.

Exactly, imagican. It seems that it is all about controlling. We know by our fruit if we are true followers of Jesus or not, not by our theology.

BTW, main stream churches are doing the same thing about the non-churchgoers too. I have a big mouth, so I never try to hide the fact about my not attending the church buildings, so I have been encountering many rebukes. Once, 16 yeare old, very devoted chruchgoer telling other posters that not to listen to me because I don't attend church and am non-trinitarian.

Most of the churches don't care or not thorough about being obedient to Jesus' teachings, but they sure are thorough about church-attending and trinity.

Why do I repeat the same comments over and over? Because bad witnesses of christians are very obviouse in this country. When they are saying it is not "most" and just "some", they mean not my denomination.

Before you rebut my comments, please think very hard if my observations are exaggeration.

I am very aware that we will be punished severely if we exaggerate or give false witnesess, especially about our brethren.

 

[thessalonian]

Imigican,

The RCC does not perpetuate hate. Stop posting this slanderous biggotry!

Ginger,

Most of the churches don't care or not thorough about being obedient to Jesus' teachings, but they sure are thorough about church-attending and trinity.

Why do I repeat the same comments over and over?

You repeat it over and over because of prejudice. Catholicism is all about being obedient to Christ. The real Christ, second person of the trinity. Being obedient to what he says, not what we have allowed our ears to be tickled with.

 

[gingercat]

Imigican,

The RCC does not perpetuate hate. Stop posting this slanderous biggotry! It is a lie.

Thess, Imagican is making a point, please refrain from nitpicking over trivial things.

You are focusing away from the subject.

I hope you are not trying to keep this thread derailed and shut down.

When you do that, you are just proving our point.

 

[gingercat]

You repeat it over and over because of prejudice.

All of my threads and posts are my observations and convictions; I let Jesus judge if I am lying or exaggerating.

 

[Heidi]

I tend to agree. There's a noxious habit of trying to claim that everyone who disagrees with you isn't a real Christian. I also see it between YECs and theistic evolutionists, with the former claiming the latter are fake Christians.

Really, though, I only see these things on the internet. Nobody I've met IRL has ever tried to pull the more-Christian-than-thou schtick. Perhaps it's because Californians tend to be less anal about the finer points of their religion, or perhaps it's just the anonymity of of the internet. People are probably less inclined to tell you that you're a lousy Christian who's going to hell to your face.

No, people who disagree with the bible aren't real Christians. I can see people being Christians who haven't read the whole bible, or who don't go to church, but once they are presented with scripture & they presist in disagreeing with it, then one has to wonder who they really worship. Again, Jesus says; "By their fruits you will recognize them." And I agree with him.

 

[thessalonian]

Imigican,

The RCC does not perpetuate hate. Stop posting this slanderous biggotry! It is a lie.

Thess, Imagican is making a point, please refrain from nitpicking over trivial things.

You are focusing away from the subject.

I hope you are not trying to keep this thread derailed and shut down.

When you do that, you are just proving our point.

Trivial point? :crazyeyes: