Phil 1:6 teaches eternal security

[chessman]

Who said the book of Revelation was seven letters?

You:

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is one book, that contains 7 different letters to address seven different churches.

 

[chessman]

Did Paul write a letter to Timothy, but sent it to Phillipi?

As a matter of fact, Paul did write a letter to Timothy and directed him to deposit it with other competent people to teach others also:

Therefore you, my child, become-strong in the grace in Christ Jesus. And the things which you heard from me through many witnesses, these things deposit with faithful people who will be competent to teach others also.​

2 Timothy 2:1-2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Timothy 2:1-2&version=DLNT

Just as Jesus told John to write down ALL he heard and saw to all seven churches in one book, not a letter to Ephesus and a different letter to Smyrna, etc. as I previously proved via John’s own testimony.

John wrote the following sentence to all seven churches because that’s what he heard and because that’s what he was told to do:

“ To the angel of the church in Ephesus, write— These things says the One holding-on-to the seven stars in His right hand, the One walking in the midst of the seven golden lampstands.​

Revelation 2:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 2:1&version=DLNT

 

[WinterPuma]

I would love to see the member Kidron's thoughts post here.

 

[JLB]

As a matter of fact, Paul did write a letter to Timothy and directed him to deposit it with other competent people to teach others also:

Exactly. Timothy would be able to discern who if fact would be competent.

This place is exactly my point.

As in the case of John in Revelation, Jesus knew to give John instructions, to give specifically to the different Churches that needed to be specifically corrected.


I think you have it. Now.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Jesus knew to give John instructions, to give specifically to the different Churches that needed to be specifically corrected.

Correct. Which is why John was given instruction to give the whole book to all the churches, not seven different letters to seven different churches as you previously stated:

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is one book, that contains 7 different letters to address seven different churches.

All the churches needed to read and hear what was written to the other churches, lest
anyone take away even one verse from this book as if some words were not applicable to all the church.

 

[JLB]

Correct. Which is why John was given instruction to give the whole book to all the churches, not seven different letters to seven different churches as you previously stated:

Never stated any such thing.

 

[JLB]

All the churches needed to read and hear what was written to the other churches, lest
anyone take away even one verse from this book as if some words were not applicable to all the church.

Of course.

However that doesn’t change the fact that seven different letters were sent to seven different angels who represented seven different Churches.

 

[chessman]

Never stated any such thing.

Is your position now that you never said; “The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is one book, that contains 7 different letters to address seven different churches.” In post # 55?

 

[chessman]

that doesn’t change the fact that seven different letters were sent to seven different angels who represented seven different Churches.

You can claim it as ‘fact’ that seven different letters were sent 1,000 times.

The fact is, the same letter was sent to all the churches. They all got the same written Revelation. And here’s the proof:

I came-to-be in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like [the sound] of a trumpet, saying “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches— to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamum, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea”.​

Revelation 1:10-11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 1:10-11&version=DLNT

A simple and direct question for you to answer to defend what you’ve said:

How many different letters was John instructed to write and send in the passage above?

 

[Honey]

Then John wrote as instructed a single letter and sent everything he wrote (the whole Revelation of Christ) to all seven churches. He did not write seven different letters.

Being John was in exile on Patmos how did he manage to send letters continuing his Apostleship when he was exiled there because he was an Apostle?

 

[chessman]

Being John was in exile on Patmos how did he manage to send letters continuing his Apostleship when he was exiled there because he was an Apostle?

Frist, he sent one letter from Patmos not seven letters as was claimed by JLB

As to your question though, the answer is that this one book (Revelation) got sent (and publicly read in each church according to Pliny) the same way Paul wrote and sent letters from his incarcerations by his fellow ministers. It (the one book) was dispatched to all seven churches, just a few miles (days walk) apart in Turkey. This is why John stressed the “hearing” of his one letter, being read to them. As in;

Let the one having an ear hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. To the one overcoming, I will give him authority to eat from the tree of life which is in the paradise of God.​

Revelation 2:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 2:7&version=DLNT

The ones with ears to hear, all heard the very same letter. Exactly as written! The ones that don’t have ears to hear, well... you do the math.

During the reign of the tyrannical Roman Emperor Domitian (A.D. 81-96), he was exiled to the nearby island of Patmos, where he wrote Revelation about A.D. 95. Upon the emperor's death he returned to Ephesus to resume his episcopacy and to write his Gospel about A.D. 96. The last remaining of the Twelve Apostles, John was nearly a hundred when he died about A.D. 96-100.​

(The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp was written within a decade of St. John's death.)​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/polycarp-smyrnaeans.html

 

[JLB]

Frist, he sent one letter from Patmos not seven letters as was claimed by JLB

As to your question though, the answer is that this one book (Revelation) got sent (and publicly read in each church according to Pliny) the same way Paul wrote and sent letters from his incarcerations by his fellow ministers. It (the one book) was dispatched to all seven churches, just a few miles (days walk) apart in Turkey. This is why John stressed the “hearing” of his one letter, being read to them. As in;

Let the one having an ear hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. To the one overcoming, I will give him authority to eat from the tree of life which is in the paradise of God.​

Revelation 2:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 2:7&version=DLNT

The ones with ears to hear, all heard the very same letter. Exactly as written! The ones that don’t have ears to hear, well... you do the math.

During the reign of the tyrannical Roman Emperor Domitian (A.D. 81-96), he was exiled to the nearby island of Patmos, where he wrote Revelation about A.D. 95. Upon the emperor's death he returned to Ephesus to resume his episcopacy and to write his Gospel about A.D. 96. The last remaining of the Twelve Apostles, John was nearly a hundred when he died about A.D. 96-100.​

(The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp was written within a decade of St. John's death.)​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/polycarp-smyrnaeans.html

John was instructed to send a letter to the Church at Ephesus.

2 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,

‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. Revelation 2:7


Do you believe he sent this to Ephesus?


I believe he did.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You can claim it as ‘fact’ that seven different letters were sent 1,000 times.

You claim that I said this is false.

 

[JLB]

Is your position now that you never said; “The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is one book, that contains 7 different letters to address seven different churches.” In post # 55?

That is exactly what I said.

Do you believe the Lord instructed John to write a letter to the Church at Ephesus but he sent it to Phillipi instead?

 

[chessman]

John was instructed to send a letter to the Church at Ephesus.

2 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,

‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. Revelation 2:7


Do you believe he sent this to Ephesus?


I believe he did.


JLB

That’s my point. You believe things about Rev 2:2-7 that are not written in Rev 2:2-7.

Requote Rev 2:2-7 and underline the word “send this”. Those are your words added to this passage within the Revelation of Christ. So no, I don’t believe he sent different letters to the churches.

 

[JLB]

That’s my point. You believe things about Rev 2:2-7 that are not written in Rev 2:2-7.

Requote Rev 2:2-7 and underline the word “send this”. Those are your words added to this passage within the Revelation of Christ. So no, I don’t believe he sent different letters to the churches.

?

Are you now claiming that the Lord had John compose a letter to the Church in Ephesus, to instruct and correct them, but John never sent the letter to them?

• These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: “I know your works, your labor, your patience,

To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,

‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’ Revelation 2:2-7

How would the Church at Ephesus ever receive the instruction that the Lord intended for them to receive if the letter was never sent?


Same thing with Paul writing to Timothy, or Corinth.


Chessman, you are not making any sense.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Are you now claiming that the Lord had John compose a letter to the Church in Ephesus, to instruct and correct them, but John never sent the letter to them?

No. John did as instructed and wrote ALL that he heard and all that he saw and sent one and only record of his Revelation to all the churches. He did not send different letters

However that doesn’t change the fact that seven different letters were sent to seven different angels who represented seven different Churches.

Blessed is the one reading, and the ones hearing the words of this prophecy and keeping the things having been written in it, for the time is near.​

Revelation 1:3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 1:3&version=DLNT

All the churches read and heard the same exact prophecy precisely because John did as instructed and recorded all he saw and heard and sent the whole prophecy to all the churches, not different letters to different churches:

However that doesn’t change the fact that seven different letters were sent to seven different angels who represented seven different Churches.

Chessman, you are not making any sense.

I’m not the one making up senseless and unsupported claims.

Until you quote the Scripture and underline any verse in the Revelation of Christ that tells John to send seven different letters, I’ll not believe your claim, reposted above with the unsupported portion underlined above.

Getting back to the topic of what Paul taught the partners in Phillipi, that you never answered but brought in your belief about seven different letters being sent from the Revelation of Christ instead:

Is it a true doctrine (or not) that Paul was confident (very confident in fact) that the One having begun a good work in all the partners of Christ will perfect His work that He began?

Might as well answer about Brother and partner John too:

I, John, your brother and co-partner in the affliction and kingdom and endurance in Jesus, came-to-be on the island being called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.​

Revelation 1:9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 1:9&version=DLNT

Is it a true doctrine (or not) that brotherJohn was confident (very confident in fact) that the One having begun a good work in all the partners of Christ will perfect His work that He began?

In other words; Do all co-partners in Christ’s kingdom endure in Jesus?

 

[JLB]

No. John did as instructed and wrote ALL that he heard and all that he saw and sent one and only record of his Revelation to all the churches. He did not send different letters

Ok. I believe he sent the letter to the Church at Ephesus to Ephesus.

I also believe he sent the letter to Timothy to Timothy.

 

[JLB]

All the churches read and heard the same exact prophecy precisely because John did as instructed and recorded all he saw and heard and sent the whole prophecy to all the churches, not different letters to different churches:

So now you have changed your story, about John sending what he wrote, even though it doesn’t say he sent it.

Chessman said; That’s my point. You believe things about Rev 2:2-7 that are not written in Rev 2:2-7.

Good, glad I could help you understand that.

Just like how this discussion started, about the letter Paul wrote and sent to Phillipi, but you claim he sent it to all the Churches, when in reality it was a letter written to the Philippians.



JLB