Polygamy

[DarkHorseRising]

So, I noticed a bunch of places where people have suggested or promoted polygamy as a viable option. I know a good scriptural argument could be made for why it's wrong and against God's will, but I also know that there's people who can argue scripture in circles all day long. So, I just want to point out some of the things that come along with it, and let people decide for themselves if these are consistent with their concept of God.

1. Drones. In a society with polygamy, a large number of men find they have no reasonable prospects for marriage or family. Although there's no guarantee even in a monogamous society, most people there do have a fighting chance of locating a partner. As observed in societies with polygamy, the women tend to go to the older and more established men, leaving a large group of dissatisfied and frustrated young men. As China is currently finding out, this leads to a number of social problems.

2. Child sexual assault. This is probably the most serious one. As the supply of potential wives dwindles, younger and younger girls are needed to keep up with the shortfall. Supply and demand. A lot of guys enjoy the idea of several women, so there's going to be a strong pressure on society to keep them coming. At that Mormon community they raided in Texas, 31 of the 51 teenage girls (13-17) were pregnant or had already delivered kids. That's 60%.

3. Prostitution. Not always willingly, either. With the shortfall of available women, the price of sex will go through the roof as larger amounts of men desire these "services". Once again, supply and demand. Less than savory individuals will notice the vast amounts of money to be made and "recruit" more sex workers. If that means they drag 50 teen girls off the streets of a third world city and ship them here, so be it. If that means they need to lure impoverished women from war-torn countries here to marry men they're not attracted to, so be it. Polygamy drives a demand, and the vacuum it leaves will be filled somehow.

4. Fatherless kids. Humans normally reproduce one at a time, occasionally two or very rarely more. This is because we invest a large amount of parental care into our offspring. With monogamy, there's somewhat of a throttle control on how fast we can produce children, and by extension how many children there are of a certain age at any given time. This allows the father to play a significant part in the raising of their child, which in turn greatly benefits the child. With polygamy, the ability of the father to be a parent is reduced because there's often too many kids. I see this all the time when my friend makes me watch those stupid talk shows... guys with 5, 6, 8 young kids or more by an equal number of mothers. Although they're not legally married, they functionally act as concubines. Without exception, these men devote very little time or effort to parenting their offspring, leaving that job exclusively to the mothers.

5. Genetic bottlenecking. A nonscientific explanation is that the wider the variation of genetic material in a population, the healthier that population is and the better it can fight off disease. By reducing the number of individuals contributing to the gene pool, you're greatly reducing the ability of a society to fight off new infections or develop immunity to disease. As well, the possibility of inbreeding depression will rear its ugly head somewhere down the line.


Don't get me wrong; people can argue for polygamy if they want to. But don't blind yourself as to what comes along with it.

 

[roger_dodger]

I believe that God made Eve for Adam to be his wife and companion and, therefore, in a "perfect world" (which Eden was) there should be one husband and one wife. I would agree there.

However, the points mentioned by the individual who started this thread as consequences of polygamy we already have as a result of the cultural marxist left in America.

1. Drones. We already have a large proportion of men (and women) who do not have mates as a result of the scourge of feminism. The divorce rate is, and has been, at a 50% or higher level since feminism reared its ugly head in the 60's. Additionally, the cultural marxist left has indoctrinated generations of women to believe that the most important thing in their lives should be an "interesting, challenging career" instead of becoming wives and mothers. Cultural marxist Hollywood has indoctrinated generations of men to view women solely as sexual objects and portray marriage in a negative light, thus causing them to eschew to traditional, Christian role as head of household and breadwinner.

2. Child sexual assault. This is, since Marcuse's "Sexual Revolution" in the 60's, an unfortunate and particularly evil part of contemporary America. Since the 60's and the focus on sexuality by the evil infotainment media, all forms of sexual crimes have risen steadily in number. Again, we already have this without polygamy.

3. Prostitution. Again, America already has prostitution at record levels - thanks to the cultural marxist left's emphasis on sexuality and deliberate breakup of Christian morality and the institution of marriage. Tens of thousands of women (if not more) are trafficked thousands of miles from asia and the former Soviet Union to be sold as chattel in the sex trade - driven by the political and cultural left's deliberate actions.

4. Fatherless kids. This is obviously something we already have as a result of feminism and cultural marxism which has broken down the traditional Christian morality and destroyed the institution of marriage and the illegitimacy that springs from the cultural marxist "sexual revolution". Beginning with the evil of feminism which broke the God-given structure of the family and the sacred nature of the marriage vow, we already see this phenomena in record numbers without polygamy.

5. Genetic Bottlenecking. This is a rediculous arguement. Societies - even ones that are small and geographically isolated - develop rules and traditions that alleviate this problem. That is, unless one has a leftist, cultural marxist elite that deliberately wishes to break down all time tested rules and traditions.

Let's be real honest here. The real reason for opposition to polygamy from the left has nothing to do with these "problems". One can be confused as to why people who consistently defend the evil of homosexual marriage would care whether one man marries multiple women or even that nancy Pelosi would want to marry her shetland pony so she could get insurance coverage for vet bills.

The real reason is that the groups that wish to have polygamy also teach women to be obedient wives and good mothers who actually have children. This is the real reason. All traces of the Christian/Western norms and morals - even in extreme and fringe groups - must be stamped out.

 

[Free]

I believe that God made Eve for Adam to be his wife and companion and, therefore, in a "perfect world" (which Eden was) there should be one husband and one wife. I would agree there.

However, the points mentioned by the individual who started this thread as consequences of polygamy we already have as a result of the cultural marxist left in America.

1. Drones. We already have a large proportion of men (and women) who do not have mates as a result of the scourge of feminism. The divorce rate is, and has been, at a 50% or higher level since feminism reared its ugly head in the 60's. Additionally, the cultural marxist left has indoctrinated generations of women to believe that the most important thing in their lives should be an "interesting, challenging career" instead of becoming wives and mothers. Cultural marxist Hollywood has indoctrinated generations of men to view women solely as sexual objects and portray marriage in a negative light, thus causing them to eschew to traditional, Christian role as head of household and breadwinner.

2. Child sexual assault. This is, since Marcuse's "Sexual Revolution" in the 60's, an unfortunate and particularly evil part of contemporary America. Since the 60's and the focus on sexuality by the evil infotainment media, all forms of sexual crimes have risen steadily in number. Again, we already have this without polygamy.

3. Prostitution. Again, America already has prostitution at record levels - thanks to the cultural marxist left's emphasis on sexuality and deliberate breakup of Christian morality and the institution of marriage. Tens of thousands of women (if not more) are trafficked thousands of miles from asia and the former Soviet Union to be sold as chattel in the sex trade - driven by the political and cultural left's deliberate actions.

4. Fatherless kids. This is obviously something we already have as a result of feminism and cultural marxism which has broken down the traditional Christian morality and destroyed the institution of marriage and the illegitimacy that springs from the cultural marxist "sexual revolution". Beginning with the evil of feminism which broke the God-given structure of the family and the sacred nature of the marriage vow, we already see this phenomena in record numbers without polygamy.

5. Genetic Bottlenecking. This is a rediculous arguement. Societies - even ones that are small and geographically isolated - develop rules and traditions that alleviate this problem. That is, unless one has a leftist, cultural marxist elite that deliberately wishes to break down all time tested rules and traditions.

We already have these problems but I think the point could be made, and is perhaps being made, that they would likely be greatly exacerbated.

Let's be real honest here. The real reason for opposition to polygamy from the left has nothing to do with these "problems". One can be confused as to why people who consistently defend the evil of homosexual marriage would care whether one man marries multiple women or even that nancy Pelosi would want to marry her shetland pony so she could get insurance coverage for vet bills.

The real reason is that the groups that wish to have polygamy also teach women to be obedient wives and good mothers who actually have children. This is the real reason. All traces of the Christian/Western norms and morals - even in extreme and fringe groups - must be stamped out.

Not real sure what you're trying to say here. Polygamy is morally wrong and that is at least a starting point for why Christians should oppose it.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Let's be real honest here. The real reason for opposition to polygamy from the left has nothing to do with these "problems". One can be confused as to why people who consistently defend the evil of homosexual marriage would care whether one man marries multiple women or even that nancy Pelosi would want to marry her shetland pony so she could get insurance coverage for vet bills.

Okay, but this argument didn't come "from the left". It came from me, in my words. I think opposition to polygamy runs the political spectrum. And I don't believe anyone has married a pony, you're just being silly now.

The real reason is that the groups that wish to have polygamy also teach women to be obedient wives and good mothers who actually have children. This is the real reason. All traces of the Christian/Western norms and morals - even in extreme and fringe groups - must be stamped out.

You've lost me here. Are you suggesting monogamous families don't have kids or respectful marriages?

 

[DarkHorseRising]

However, the points mentioned by the individual who started this thread as consequences of polygamy we already have as a result of the cultural marxist left in America.

I'm not disputing that these already exist to a degree. You can find examples of almost anything existing somewhere in society; that's a lazy man's rebuttal. What I'm arguing is that such vices would increase greatly if polygamy became widespread.

 

[joethemechanic]

The real reason is that the groups that wish to have polygamy also teach women to be obedient wives and good mothers who actually have children. This is the real reason. All traces of the Christian/Western norms and morals - even in extreme and fringe groups - must be stamped out.

I agree 100%

Sorry to say Darkhorse, but your chances of finding a wife and staying married for life are slim to none. You may be committed to the idea of being married for life, but no modern woman is. They have all been indoctrinated with feminist ideologies from birth. Multiple divorces are now viewed as "rites of passage" to modern women.

 

[farouk]

I agree 100%

Sorry to say Darkhorse, but your chances of finding a wife and staying married for life are slim to none. You may be committed to the idea of being married for life, but no modern woman is. They have all been indoctrinated with feminist ideologies from birth. Multiple divorces are now viewed as "rites of passage" to modern women.

joe:

Oh you can't just blame all marital problems on the woman!

Blessings.

 

[Free]

I agree 100%

Sorry to say Darkhorse, but your chances of finding a wife and staying married for life are slim to none. You may be committed to the idea of being married for life, but no modern woman is. They have all been indoctrinated with feminist ideologies from birth. Multiple divorces are now viewed as "rites of passage" to modern women.

That is patently false. There certainly are "modern women" committed to the idea of being married for life and men are just as likely to not be committed to that idea as women.

 

[AirDancer]

I agree 100%

Sorry to say Darkhorse, but your chances of finding a wife and staying married for life are slim to none. You may be committed to the idea of being married for life, but no modern woman is. They have all been indoctrinated with feminist ideologies from birth. Multiple divorces are now viewed as "rites of passage" to modern women.

Joe, as a mature woman, I know of no woman who views divorce as a 'rite of passage'. I've also not once known a woman who had the view that 'if the marriage doesn't work out, then I'll get a divorce." I have, however, worked with several men who viewed marriage from that vantage point.

You are allowing your frustrations from the behaviour of your former fiancee colour your viewpoint. You have to turn the bitterness over to our Lord, and let healing occur.

Only then will you be able to see that there are far more Godly women in this world who view marriage as a lifetime committed promise to their husbands.

You're in my prayers, my friend.

 

[farouk]

Joe: AirDancer is right. I look at my own heart, too, but the Bible talks about many being defiled by a root of bitterness.

We need to move forward in faith, 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12).

 

[Adullam]

Wait...isn't polygamy the knack of multi-tasking several games online at once?

 

[joethemechanic]

I'll tell you what. In the 4 1/2 years since my fiancee left, I've must have dated 20 women and met a few more. Almost without exception they were all divorced. And all the ones who were divorced were the ones who had initiated the divorce.

Going back to my fiancee. I cared for her through 4 operations for cancer (starting with ovarian). She was a Christian. About a week before she left, and just totally out of the blue she said to me that I really wasn't her "type" and that she really liked "bad boys"

Roughly a week later she left me for an ex-con while I was at work.

She didn't work except to keep the books for my business, because her health wasn't always the greatest. I bought everything. Suburban home, 2 cars, food, clothes, phones, gas,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have to tell you all I have met in the past 10 years are a bunch of entitlement queens. I can only think of one possible exception. I met one nice woman from The Ukraine. She had been here 14 years but really never got a good grasp on English. The language barrier kind of prevented it from getting too far.

Even the young women I know (20's and 30's) spout sick feminist ideologies. None of them talk about dreams of marriage and family. In fact almost none of them are married and if they have kids, every kid has a different father,,,,,,

I really wish I was wrong about modern women, but I fear I am right.

I'll be 51 in a couple of weeks, and I give up. I can think of a few that I could call up for a date tomorrow night and who would be willing to fornicate, but I can't think of one who I could call if I needed a friend.

Sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but sadly that is how things look from my perspective.

As far as the original topic of polygamy goes, I really don't think it matters much. Feminism ruined the concept of marriage for life. And now I fear that it is just too late to ever turn it around

 

[Free]

I'll tell you what. In the 4 1/2 years since my fiancee left, I've must have dated 20 women and met a few more. Almost without exception they were all divorced. And all the ones who were divorced were the ones who had initiated the divorce.

Going back to my fiancee. I cared for her through 4 operations for cancer (starting with ovarian). She was a Christian. About a week before she left, and just totally out of the blue she said to me that I really wasn't her "type" and that she really liked "bad boys"

Roughly a week later she left me for an ex-con while I was at work.

She didn't work except to keep the books for my business, because her health wasn't always the greatest. I bought everything. Suburban home, 2 cars, food, clothes, phones, gas,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have to tell you all I have met in the past 10 years are a bunch of entitlement queens. I can only think of one possible exception. I met one nice woman from The Ukraine. She had been here 14 years but really never got a good grasp on English. The language barrier kind of prevented it from getting too far.

Even the young women I know (20's and 30's) spout sick feminist ideologies. None of them talk about dreams of marriage and family. In fact almost none of them are married and if they have kids, every kid has a different father,,,,,,

I really wish I was wrong about modern women, but I fear I am right.

I'll be 51 in a couple of weeks, and I give up. I can think of a few that I could call up for a date tomorrow night and who would be willing to fornicate, but I can't think of one who I could call if I needed a friend.

Sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but sadly that is how things look from my perspective.

As far as the original topic of polygamy goes, I really don't think it matters much. Feminism ruined the concept of marriage for life. And now I fear that it is just too late to ever turn it around

With all due respect, at that age almost all the single women will be divorced, some will be widowed and a few will have never been married. But just because most will be divorced doesn't mean that "no modern woman is" "committed to the idea of being married for life," and that "they have all been indoctrinated with feminist ideologies from birth" and "multiple divorces are now viewed as 'rites of passage' to modern women." You are generalizing based on your own experience at an age bracket where a single woman is most likely going to be divorced. You're not 20 anymore and nor are they.

And personally, I don't know one woman like those you are describing.

 

[joethemechanic]

It really isn't the fact that they are divorced, or really about anything they have done in their past. It is the lousy attitudes they have about monogamy and marriage. At best you might meet a "serial monogamist"

As far as they are concerned relationships are totally and completely disposable.

Maybe it's just my area, I live in a nice suburb of Philadelphia, but then again, I am in between Philly and NYC.

But I can only tell you what I have observed both in my life and the life of friends who are also out in the dating world.

Marriage and monogamy are dead, feminism killed it

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Marriage and monogamy are dead, feminism killed it

You know who you remind me of? Marc Lepine. He ranted about feminists a lot too.

I've never met anyone like the kind of women you describe (and I work in the horse industry, which is 95% female) which leads me to seriously wonder what sort of female crowd you hang around with. I have friends who are in long term committed relationships and planning marriage. Many of their parents remain happily married 25 - 30 years or more. Grandparents married 5 or 6 decades.

You vaguely go on about "feminists" ruining things. The "feminists" at my university are currently running a campaign to (horror of horrors) stop female genital mutilation and the practice of child brides in third world countries. Feel like taking a stand against that, Joe?

I'm not saying this to be spiteful, but I seriously doubt you'll ever be in a healthy relationship with a woman until/unless you lose your ridiculous anger and unfounded paranoia towards females. Your attitude is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[joethemechanic]

I seriously think you don't have enough life experience to be able to challenge my observations.

And lose the little comment about "What kind of people I hang out with"

I'm in my 50's. People in their 50's don't "hang out" . People my age have lives and responsibilities, there is no time for "hanging out"

 

[Brightmorningstar]

DarkHorseRising,
People arguing for poligamy can and are using the same arguments as the lgbt lobbies. If one abandons God’s word under the pretext of ‘interpretation then anything can go. People will be using whatever arguments suit them to justify whatever they want.
NB. You mentioned child sexual assault. Remember a leading lgbt activist’s comments
"Several of my friends – gay and straight, male and female – had sex with adults from the ages of nine to 13. None feel they were abused. All say it was their conscious choice and gave them great joy."
So my question to you is what about consenting child sex?
Also I see no relation to fatherless kids, all kids have a father, whether they know who the father is is irrelevant to poligamy.

 

[for_his_glory]

It really isn't the fact that they are divorced, or really about anything they have done in their past. It is the lousy attitudes they have about monogamy and marriage. At best you might meet a "serial monogamist"

As far as they are concerned relationships are totally and completely disposable.

Maybe it's just my area, I live in a nice suburb of Philadelphia, but then again, I am in between Philly and NYC.

But I can only tell you what I have observed both in my life and the life of friends who are also out in the dating world.

Marriage and monogamy are dead, feminism killed it

Joe, I am sorry you feel this way and maybe you are looking for love in all the wrong places, seriously, not a pun intended. I am a 57 year old women who has been divorced twice for reasons I will not get into here, but to say no fault of my own as I tried to hold on to the marriages, but it was not going to happen for me as I was looking for love in the wrong places and all I wanted was a good man and a good relationship that would lead to a good marriage.

I am one of the women who believe that a wife walks beside her husband and not behind him. I believe a women can work outside the home, but also needs to take care of her home IE: cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. etc., but not a slave to the home or her husband.

I am now married to what I like to call my gift from God for 14 years now. Is the marriage perfect, no, as we have our moments of arguments at times, but never go to bed angry as we work everything out by placing Christ in the center of our marriage. We have established a trust and Gods love for each other that no one will ever separate us.

Marriage is a work in progress as we are a work in progress as Christ works in us individually. We take time out of our busy lives to hang with our friends on the weekends and enjoy life. As far as polygamy we can search the word of God to know what He has already said on the subject and I do not believe in multiple group marriage as the Mormons do as God gave Adam to Eve in a perfect world, but through mans imperfections they have strayed away from truth to that of their own imaginations which leads to ones own downfall when they fall from grace.

There are many good women and men out there and God will place the right one in your path as he did mine, but it's up to you to recognize her.

 

[ColdBlooded]

There is no way multiple women could function in the same household with one man to fight over.

It would be chaos. Jealousy, deceit, coveting. It just doesn't seem like a healthy environment.

I don't mean that in a misogynistic way either. If I had one wife and three other guys it would be like the UFC mixed with The Jersey Shore.

I just doesn't seem socially functional.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

NB. You mentioned child sexual assault. Remember a leading lgbt activist’s comments
"Several of my friends – gay and straight, male and female – had sex with adults from the ages of nine to 13. None feel they were abused. All say it was their conscious choice and gave them great joy."
So my question to you is what about consenting child sex?
Also I see no relation to fatherless kids, all kids have a father, whether they know who the father is is irrelevant to poligamy.

First of all, one anecdote from a lgbt activist does not define reality.

Secondly, children cannot consent to sex with an adult. A major power imbalance exists, and society has pretty much come to a consensus that such relationships are wrong and unacceptable.

Third, many studies exist showing that premature sexual behavior is associated with a host of negative things, from lower self esteem to an increased likelihood of STD's and unplanned pregnancies.