Population crisis?

[Aardverk]

The population of the USA has increased by a staggering 60% in the last 50 years. That is 100 million extra people.

World population has grown from an estimated 200 million in biblical times to the current 7 billion. Some forecasts predict 10.5 billion by 2050 – and that’s only 37 years away.

Should we still be fruitful and multiply or should we try to prevent population growth which would ultimately result in the starvation of billions if mass disease does not kill them off first?

What should be done?

 

[Claudya]

Don't worry. We Europeans are working hard on our own extiction by low birth rate. We're gonna even out someone else's fruitfullness.

Anyway, this may be a cynical way of looking at it, but nature has her ways of regulating population growth. It's just not gonna be very fun for the people that will be around to experience it.
But should we stop having children because they may have to live in troublesome times?
I'm thinking human nature would urge us to have even more children in those times that we expect survival to be tougher, because
1) something within us needs to know that our world continues, that we are part of the circle of live, of the continuity of mankind. Having children give us hope and purpose we need when we have to fight for our survival.
2) something within us wants to make sure our genes survive the next generation. Even our knowledge about the vanity of this earthly world can't fully overrule that primal instinct.
3) I'm also basing that assumption on the observation that birth rates are higher in areas of the world where socio-economical conditions are rough and where foot/water shortage, violence and diseases are no future scenario, but everyday business in our days. There is a variety of possible reasons for that correlation, but I think part of it is that we are wired like that, the less it is likely for an individual to survive, the more children we have, to make sure some of them make it to adulthood.

So although it may be wiser for people all around the world to slow down reproduction, people won't do it, especially when times are tough. Even if we know our children will be living in a much less convenient world than we did.
No idea what's wrong with Europe (Germany in particular), maybe we're just doing too well and too complacent.... or too indifferent... to care for the continuity of mankind.

 

[Mountainshield]

Should we still be fruitful and multiply or should we try to prevent population growth which would ultimately result in the starvation of billions if mass disease does not kill them off first?

Your conclusion is based on a hypothesis that resources and specifically food will always be stagnant at today slevel or increase at a slower pace than human population growth. The answers are more based on your political affiliation which decides your world view, scientific view and social views.

I totally disagree with this Malthus hypothesis.

In Europe/USA/Latin America there is abundance of food. There is more forest area today than there were 100 years ago in USA and Western Europe. There are many factors for why I'm optimistic about the future and higher population, but here are the first 10 I can think of.

(1) more than 95% of the population suffering from starvation lives in totalitarian/authoritarian governments.
(2) The problem of starvation is political problem due to the ineffeciency, corruption, kleptocracy of communist/totalitarian governments
(3) There is huge and incredible areas suitable for agriculture today in Africa that can make the continent self suffiecient and even export food. China knows this which is why they are trying to make the corrupt totalitarian regimes of many African states develope their agriculture.
(4) I just watched a BBC special yesterday that in Western Europe 50% of all the food is wasted before it is consumed. With better logistics, new preservation technology and effeciency in agriculture western europe can keep on increasing production and reduce waste.
(5) Almost every person born is capable of work, again the problem is the political system of redistribution instead of growth is keeping more and more people unemployed because the incentives to create wealth and be a wage earner decreases yearly.
(6) One of the biggest factors for starvation in addition to totalitarian regimes is the protectionism of democratic regimes. Special interests wants imports tariffs which reduced investement from rich countries too poor countries.
(7) All research shows that better living standards leads too less children. 2 Generations ago it was normal for a wife too have 8-15 children in europe, now the standard is 1.5 children. So if anything we need to get busy with our wives ;)
(8) Even though increased living standards increases consumption it has the good cycle of stimulating demands and investements further increasing demands for employment, and as people get better living standard soo too they have less children.
(9) The laws of supply and demand will lead to new technologies and new syntethic materials replacing resources which supply decreases
(10) Oil and gas reserves keep being unlocked. Before people thought Norway would run out of oil in 50 years. Now they know its more than 100 years, and thats not taking all the locked reserves into account.

So overpopulation is only a problem for tyrannical regimes incapable of satisfying the people needs for food, jobs and security.

Once we get rid of all the fascist/communist/totalitarian regimes the problem will be too keep people breeding more humans :D

 

[Aardverk]

Mountainshield, your reply is just too good! You have covered just about everything I thought of. My post was prompted by the report that millions starve whilst the world throws away 50% of the food grown. Theoretically, the world can support a lot more people but there is a limit somewhere and continued population growth would push us beyond food and water limits one day.

So should we help the starving millions or just tell them it's there own fault for tolerating their particular government?


(Temporary avatar for farouk's 'hair' thread.)

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The population of the USA has increased by a staggering 60% in the last 50 years. That is 100 million extra people.

World population has grown from an estimated 200 million in biblical times to the current 7 billion. Some forecasts predict 10.5 billion by 2050 – and that’s only 37 years away.

Should we still be fruitful and multiply or should we try to prevent population growth which would ultimately result in the starvation of billions if mass disease does not kill them off first?

What should be done?

we should ignore completely alarmist and baseless fears about overpopulation, because the planet can support several times its current population.

[video=youtube;HsAracLBCxI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsAracLBCxI[/video]​

 

[Milk-Drops]

There is a population problem, but its not necessarily about the whole world's resources and hypotheticals, The population problem also stems from how countries are run, the populations of the countries, and the resources these countries have. For instance, many countries in African have population problems because of their poor economies, problems with medical shortages , food shortages, lack of high educations, Lack of useable farm land, etc. The US doesn't have to worry about a population problem yet because of our space, bountiful land for crops and livestock, somewhat stable economy, Healthcare, and education.


There is a problem with population, but it has more to do with political borders and the distribution of resources.

 

[Aardverk]

Excellent video 'disconnected.

Between you and Mountainslide you have pulled the rug out from underneath me. The reason I put a question mark after 'crisis' was because I intended to come back with some of those arguments. You two have a done a better job than I would have done. We are just left with the dilemma of whether to aid the starving or not.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Excellent video 'disconnected.

Between you and Mountainslide you have pulled the rug out from underneath me. The reason I put a question mark after 'crisis' was because I intended to come back with some of those arguments. You two have a done a better job than I would have done. We are just left with the dilemma of whether to aid the starving or not.

i agree with a lot of the video Numbers put forth. The only real comment/ criticism I'll use against it is that it uses the same type of number projection to claim that the population is going to go down and those who are being alarmist use to say its going to go up. As i was saying in my post. Poor countries will continue to have population problems due to their infrastructure and poverty rate, but places like the US, Europe, and to an extent China, don't have to worry to much.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Excellent video 'disconnected.

Between you and Mountainslide you have pulled the rug out from underneath me. The reason I put a question mark after 'crisis' was because I intended to come back with some of those arguments. You two have a done a better job than I would have done. We are just left with the dilemma of whether to aid the starving or not.

Exactly, and obviously the answer is we must, through the church, which is better equipped to do so efficiently and urgently.

 

[Aardverk]

.......Poor countries will continue to have population problems due to their infrastructure and poverty rate, but places like the US, Europe, and to an extent China, don't have to worry to much.

Yes. On top of that, if global warming really does cause serious sea level rise, many poor countries will also shrink dramatically in size. That may be another test for humanity. Which country will open their borders and welcome them in? Look what happened to the Jews when they were seeking refuge!

 

[farouk]

For Christians the solution is proclaiming the Gospel, not condoms.

God will take care of the big picture; meanwhile, Christians should concentrate on the role that the Lord put us here for.

 

[Mountainshield]

Well I will certainly stop trying to figure out you Aardverk, its too hard for me.

But one more thing thats good about increase in population is the increased chance of getting remarkable human beings capable of bringing fourth new technologies and philosophies from which the rests of us benefits from. Not to go off topic, but if there is one good reason for excellent global public education it is that geniuses be found in all cultures, social class and all ethnic groups. More people=more remarkable people.

So should we help the starving millions or just tell them it's there own
fault for tolerating their particular government?

I think the best place to start would be to stop supporting their corrupt governments with subsidies and instead work directly with the local population to create decentralized local governments. I.e Norway sends money to Mugabe, but not to the people of Zimbabwe. The Japanese are working directly with the local institutions on grassroots level in SA and are doing good things, while european politicians brag about their foreign aid to mugabe in banquets or whatever social gatherings politicians do these days.

The stick and carrot foreign aid model simply doesnt work.

 

[Aardverk]

Well I will certainly stop trying to figure out you Aardverk, its too hard for me.

I'm really not very complicated. The only problem I observe is that some people like leaping to conclusions. Some people on this forum seem to think I am an enemy! I have no idea why :dunno

Not to go off topic, but if there is one good reason for excellent global public education it is that geniuses be found in all cultures, social class and all ethnic groups. More people=more remarkable people.

I couldn't agree more. As a species we are undoubtedly wasting some of our best intellects. Education for all is a very worthwhile aim including university education for the top 5% (say).

 

[Grazer]

I'm really not very complicated. The only problem I observe is that some people like leaping to conclusions. Some people on this forum seem to think I am an enemy! I have no idea why :dunno


I couldn't agree more. As a species we are undoubtedly wasting some of our best intellects. Education for all is a very worthwhile aim including university education for the top 5% (say).

You're not an enemy to me (whatever that's worth to you)

 

[Aardverk]

You're not an enemy to me (whatever that's worth to you)

Thank you kind sir.