Preaching to the Choir

[Free]

A lie.

Yes, and that goes for many other theological assertions as well.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Do you think it is appropriate to expect other to answer your questions when the questions they've asked are ignored and go unanswered?

Please remind me of the question you refer to ?

1 Corinthians 6:12 and 10:23
He never threatened their eternal disposition over eschatology.

You may have missed 1 Cor chapter 5.

They are not warnings. They are threats, "If you do not believe X then you will burn in hell," and they are threats made by one Christian to other Christians over one of the most disputed subjects in Christendom.

I guess one person's threats are another person's warnings.
Folks who ignore the teachers of God are doomed.
You seem to be one who believes in OSAS.
I am not.

Since salvation is by grace through faith and NOT by eschatology, how is it one Christian can even remotely imply his siblings in the body of Christ might burn if there is any disagreement with that op?

Can you say that a murderer, thief, or liar has faith ?
I wouldn't.

• How can a member of the proverbial "choir" preach to the choir and threaten them with divine judgment culminating with their burning in hell?

Simple, it is called fellowship.
Are you familiar with Heb 10:25-30 ?
It is written..."Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people."
Isn't that preaching to the choir ?

• Does this make sense to anyone?

Yes.

• Is this practice something anyone here thinks should be ignored?

Not if you value your soul.

What is the better, more whole-scripture alternative?

A whole scripture alternative to making sure brethren don't fall into sin, does not exist.

At this point I would like to make another observation: See how much difficulty this op caused everyone. Who here answered the questions asked before commenting. Even after the ambiguities were clarified there are no answers to the specific questions asked. Everyone avoided the questions and their answers. Consider also which of the eschatological viewpoints is most likely to foster the Christian-threatening ops. How is it that it is only those adhering to those few viewpoints that post so irrationally as to threaten other Christians with eternal damnation if the readers don't subscribe to their end times assertions?

As I just noted to JLB, we've all been in the end times discussion boards long enough to see this and know better. We've all ben Christians long enough and read our Bibles sufficiently to know this is misguided practice. If just the handful of us here in this thread avoided the practice, noted it when it occurs, and did not feed it otherwise, the entire board would benefit.

How do you know how long a man has been converted ?
How many here have been Christians for less than one year ?
Nobody knows everything.

 

[miamited]

Having perused the ops in this board, I noticed a few threads in which either the op or a post within a thread asserted (explicitly or implicitly) the position asserted was necessary for salvation. There is, for example, an op right here on the top page of this board titled, "Warning: Turn or Burn," (in ALL CAPS) that implies a lack of agreement with that opening post will result in judgment and burning in hell. Since eschatology is Christian doctrine, one being discussed by Christians in this Christian board in this Christian forum, I wonder for whom this op's admonition is intended. Since salvation is by grace through faith and NOT by eschatology, how is it one Christian can even remotely imply his siblings in the body of Christ might burn if there is any disagreement with that op?

• How can a member of the proverbial "choir" preach to the choir and threaten them with divine judgment culminating with their burning in hell?
• Does this make sense to anyone?
• Is this practice something anyone here thinks should be ignored?

What is the better, more whole-scripture alternative?

Which is the point of the inquiry. If someone else's disposition is unknown then how can anything be apresumed one way or another?

Hi Josheb

Your opening post seemed to be making some argument that you seem to be against others making posts on a 'christian' site that is 'supposed' to be made up of other christians, regarding sin in their lives. I get that. I really do and I applaud you for such great wisdom. However, now your response is that we can't really know anyone else's disposition on such matters. I think that many here have pointed out that this idea that within a group of 'supposed' believers, whether they are 'real' believers or not there is an historical record that Paul, I don't think anyone would deny that he was a real believer, wrote letters to fellowships, that yes was supposed to be made up of real believers, about sinful practices that were, at times, displayed among the fellowships. As I read the Scriptures I find that John, Peter, the writer of Hebrews, James, all have pieces of Scripture that talk about sins that may be found within fellowships. Jesus even wrote letters to some of the first churches and pointed out some of the sinful practices among them.

So, that's how I understand the Scriptures and what they tell us. Now, my question for you, in apparently studying the Scriptures and, I'm going to assume, having a born again relationship with the Lord, is: What are you trying to tell us?

You ask a question: Is this practice something that anyone thinks should be ignored?

Well, I'll ask you, did Paul ignore pointing out sin among the fellowship of believers? Did Peter ignore pointing out sin among the fellowship of believers? Did Jesus ignore pointing out sin among the fellowship of believers?

My answer is that if they didn't, then I wouldn't think I should feel somehow beholden to.

So, again, what is your point that you're trying to make to us?

I'm just sayin'.

 

[Arial]

My understanding of the OP question, being in the end times board, as it is.

Is a person's view of eschatology salvific? Can a dispensationalist say with any authority or scriptural back up that one who holds a covenant view of eschatology, cannot be saved because they don't hold a dispensationalist view? The vice versa would also apply, though I have seen the first done but not the second, and I have not read any of the posts in the end times forum on this site.

IOW, if salvation is by grace through faith, (and it is) not through eschatological beliefs, how could any claim of someone not being saved be based on eschatological interpretations?

 

[for_his_glory]

Many claim they are a Christian, but only give lip service as they have not Christ within them. Just because you go to Church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in your garage would make you a car.

If what one tries to preach does not line up with scripture then don't believe a word they speak. Each one of us are accountable for our self before the Lord. It's up to each one of us to find truth that is only found in scripture taught to us through the Holy Spirit teaching us all truths. The choir, or I should say, the sheep knows the Lord's voice and follow after Him.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[Josheb]

A lie.

And how should other Christian posters in such a thread reply? Silence? Admonition? Confrontation? Something else?

 

[Josheb]

But that is what you are doing, is it not? You have assumed the OP was posting his post towards other Christians, but that is nowhere indicated.


Yes, and you seem to have assumed the latter, without basis for doing so. It seems to me that the OP clearly wrote such a post for unbelievers. Why should we assume otherwise?


If you want to know why someone wrote what they wrote or to whom they wrote, because nothing clearly indicates either of those, then you must ask them. None of us are mind readers.


I'm not sure what your point is, but just read the OP and how they couldn't post in the comments on YouTube.


I've already pointed this out, even based on what you had already stated:

"Yes, and Jesus explicitly states he did not know any of those people. They think they are Christians, but they are not Christians. As Paul put it, they neither know or are known."

There are clearly those who think they're Christian but are not, right? Maybe something in that OP will get someone to reconsider, although not likely since they believe themselves to be Christian.


That is an assumption, based on the reasons already given.


No, the response hasn't been silence.


This is an assumption, again, for the reasons given. Besides, there are unbelievers on these forums who can still read was written, never mind those who aren't members but just peruse the site.


Of course, but you're assuming that that was his point and it doesn't seem like it is.


Of course, and no one has stated otherwise.


Again, you're assuming the intent of the author. I think you need to read the OP's first paragraph a little more closely and also see that it is their only post.


Of course not, but is that actually what was done? It doesn't appear so to me.


Go to the OP and ask what his intentions were, since he seems to have cause you offense.


No, I can't; I'm not a mind reader.

Every point in Post #20 has already been addressed in an earlier post.

In order for a poster to author an up in which s/he threatens another, s/he must first presume either 1) There are non-Christians reading this op," or 2) A Christian can lose his/her salvation if they disagree with the op's end-times position. As to the presumption of non-Christians reading the op, that would be a presumption because this is a Christian board in a Christian forum and the participants in this board are all, or overwhelmingly all Christians. For those who've challenged that point I simply ask, "Show me a non-Christian here in this board." It's a simple matter. If there are non-Christians here, then their handles can be listed and I will correct my participation in this thread according. In the absence of any such evidence, however, that first point stands. It is the author of the op who has made unfounded assumptions, not me. As to the presumption of Christians losing their salvation over eschatology, that simply and inescapably bad soteriology. No one is saved by adhering to any specific end-times position and anyone who threatens a Christian with burning in hell is wrong. There should not be any dispute of that.

Intent does not matter.

Both practices are wrong, so let's stop rehashing already-posted content and move on to the other aspects of the op. The question to this audience is what should be done about the problems of threatening Christians with hell over eschatology? Since salvation is by grace through faith and NOT by eschatology, how is it one Christian can even remotely imply his siblings in the body of Christ might burn if there is any disagreement with that op?

• How can a Christian threaten other Christians with divine judgment culminating with their burning in hell?
• Does this make sense to anyone?
• Is this practice something anyone here thinks should be ignored?

What is the better, more whole-scripture alternative?


If anyone provides me with a list of non-Christians participating in this end times board then I will gladly amend those questions accordingly. In the absence of any such evidence, stop arguing the point because it is baseless (without evidence).

 

[Josheb]

Hi Josheb
I get that you're relatively new to this site...

I've been a member in this forum on and off for more than a decade and ad hominem is always and everywhere fallacious. So too are red herrings, straw men, and non sequiturs. Please top trying to muck up this thread.

It is a FACT there are posts in this board that threaten Christian readers with damnation. They do not discriminate between non-Christians and Christians, and it must be assumed there are non-Christians reading these posts for any such threat to have a rational basis. Don't you think that if there were non-Christians reading these posts one of them would have responded to this op accordingly?

Since salvation is by grace through faith and NOT by eschatology, how is it one Christian can even remotely imply his siblings in the body of Christ might burn if there is any disagreement with that op?

• How can a Christian threaten other Christians with divine judgment culminating with their burning in hell?
• Does this make sense to anyone?
• Is this practice something anyone here thinks should be ignored?

What is the better, more whole-scripture alternative?

If you have something op-relevant to say about that point and those questions, then do please post it.

 

[hawkman]

I've been a member in this forum on and off for more than a decade and ad hominem is always and everywhere fallacious. So too are red herrings, straw men, and non sequiturs. Please top trying to muck up this thread.

Josheb right here is what you need to do .

Go to the OP and ask what his intentions were, since he seems to have cause you offense.

In case you need it here is the thread you should be asking your questions to the OP

Thread 'WARNING: TURN OR BURN'

Jan 12, 2025

I’ve tried posting this in comments in You tube but it gets deleted. I know it’s a harsh word and disturbing, but it’s supposed to be. Some are saved through compassion making a difference others must be snatched from the fire. I believe that the wildfires along with other weather events are wake up calls.

WARNING: TURN OR BURN

Everything you do, everywhere you go, the doors are opening to a place you do not know. The gates of hell open wide before you and devils call your name, turn left or right, try to go backwards, but no, there in their hell you shall remain. The snares that you...

• AJG32
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Biblical End Times