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Precedent Faith

journeyman said:
There's nothing difficult about understanding that God created every human being entering this world without sin and blameless.
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I can see why you would say this, but it's my understanding that all after Adam are born with the sinful nature ("old man" - Rom 3:23); and one needs this old man to be "crucified with Christ" (Rom 6:6).
 
for_his_glory said:
Names were written in the Lambs book of life, but many names have been blotted out as they began to be deceived in rejecting God and His Son Christ Jesus as they followed after other gods.
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God's being omniscient doesn't require adding nor subtracting names in the Book. The idea of "blotting out" a name is in the sense that He will never blot one out, and their name was never in there. He already knows all who will be a genuine believer! God bless!
 
journeyman said:
No. The first thing that has to happen is the reason why anyone whould desire God and God initiates that,

We love him, because he first loved us. 1Jn.4:9 KJV
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I believe God already knows who will choose Him or reject Him, thus He brings only the one who wants to believe in Him to salvation. If it was God first initiating, then He would have to initiate everyone to be fair, and we know He isn't prejudice.
journeyman said:
The fact that God is no respecter or persons means He gave all people ample reasons, opportunities and abilities to repent, but they chose not to,
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This is the same way I see it. Good applicable explanation!
 
netchaplain said:
Their name in the Book means that God, in His omniscience knew they would choose to want to be right with Him! Those He knows who will reject Him are not in the Book.
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You said it was entirely comforting, especially if your name is in the book. This says it is comforting to those who are not in the book, but even more comforting to those who are in it. Did you mean to say that, or was it a misstatement?
 
netchaplain said:
I believe God already knows who will choose Him or reject Him, thus He brings only the one who wants to believe in Him to salvation. If it was God first initiating, then He would have to initiate everyone to be fair, and we know He isn't prejudice.
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Our Lord came not only to forgive, but also as a faithful Witness who will judge us all later.
netchaplain said:
This is the same way I see it. Good applicable explanation!
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I'm glad! We need to see the other faithful Witness (the testimony by which the law convicts) as the Spirit. Those Two will decide who else was a faithful witness.
 
NewLifeInChrist said:
You said it was entirely comforting, especially if your name is in the book. This says it is comforting to those who are not in the book, but even more comforting to those who are in it. Did you mean to say that, or was it a misstatement?
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It is entirely comforting to know your name is in the Book. Because if it isn't in the Book it means you did not choose to be right with God.
 
journeyman said:
Putting the "old man" to death is an individuals choice to kill fleshly desires. That's the Spirits leading. Tha's our Fathers' desire.
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The "old man' or our sinful nature can be resisted or "put off" (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). It never says the old man is killed, but "crucified" (Rom 6:6), which is in the sense that it is still on the Cross for us. Christ's Blood procures pardon for our sin
(Col 1:20; Ro 8:1), and the Cross procures power over sin (Ro 6:14); but nowhere does it show the old man dead.

If it were dead we wouldn't keep sinning. Just because it says it was "crucified" doesn't mean killed. It still indwells the believer, but now it can no longer causes us to desire sin!
 
journeyman said:
Our Lord came not only to forgive, but also as a faithful Witness who will judge us all later.

I'm glad! We need to see the other faithful Witness (the testimony by which the law convicts) as the Spirit. Those Two will decide who else was a faithful witness.
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There are two types of judgments; one that condemns; and one that rewards. The judgement of the believer will determine the eternal reward of the believer, which I believe will be what position of authority he will be at.
 
netchaplain said:
The "old man' or our sinful nature can be resisted or "put off" (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). It never says the old man is killed, but "crucified" (Rom 6:6), which is in the sense that it is still on the Cross for us. Christ's Blood procures pardon for our sin
(Col 1:20; Ro 8:1), and the Cross procures power over sin (Ro 6:14); but nowhere does it show the old man dead.
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To be crucified is to be powerless. Our Lords' blood procures pardon becuse He, Jesus, the King of kings, the Judge of all passed over the sins being committed against Him.
netchaplain said:
If it were dead we wouldn't keep sinning. Just because it says it was "crucified" doesn't mean killed. It still indwells the believer, but now it can no longer causes us to desire sin!
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We're supposed to be growing, not sinning and I disagree that by "crucify" Paul doesn't mean put to death.
 
journeyman said:
To be crucified is to be powerless. Our Lords' blood procures pardon becuse He, Jesus, the King of kings, the Judge of all passed over the sins being committed against Him.

We're supposed to be growing, not sinning and I disagree that by "crucify" Paul doesn't mean put to death.
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If the old man was dead that would mean we would no longer possess it. Crucifixion doesn't always mean death, and in this sense (Ro 6:6) it just means restrained. It no longer has the power to cause us to desire sin. This means there are no more "willful sins" (Heb 10:26).
 
netchaplain said:
Crucifixion doesn't always mean death, and in this sense (Ro 6:6) it just means restrained
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What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom.6:1-5
 
journeyman said:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom.6:1-5
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When Scripture says we don't sin, it's in the sense that it's never intentional. We are dead to sin because we don't desire it, though we still sin unintentionally, but sin is not dead to us. The main difference is that our sins are not "willful" (Heb 10:26).

Some still have habitual sins to discontinue, like drunkenness, drug addition, etc.; The Christians sins are more so impulsive, like envy, strife, wrath, etc., and are not "presumptuous" (Num 15:28, 30).
 
journeyman said:
To be crucified is to be powerless. Our Lords' blood procures pardon becuse He, Jesus, the King of kings, the Judge of all passed over the sins being committed against Him.

We're supposed to be growing, not sinning and I disagree that by "crucify" Paul doesn't mean put to death.
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I wish the sin nature ("old man") was gone but it just no longer has power to cause us to desire to sin. To desire sin or not to desire sin is where every persons heart is (Mat 6:21), and ours is not to desire sin. Scripture says "sin shall not have dominion over you" (Ro 6:14), but nowhere is it said that we can be sinless. "Shall we continue to sin" (Rom 6:1) is in the sense of shall we continue to sin "willfully" (Heb 10:26).

It's the power sin has to condemn you that's dead, not the sin nature itself. If we no longer had the sin nature we would be sinless, and anytime "we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1Jn 1:8).
 
netchaplain said:
When Scripture says we don't sin, it's in the sense that it's never intentional. We are dead to sin because we don't desire it, though we still sin unintentionally, but sin is not dead to us. The main difference is that our sins are not "willful" (Heb 10:26).
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I think knowing the way the Messiah endured grief will cure intentional sins immediately. His way. Why He did this His way.
netchaplain said:
Some still have habitual sins to discontinue, like drunkenness, drug addition, etc.; The Christians sins are more so impulsive, like envy, strife, wrath, etc., and are not "presumptuous" (Num 15:28, 30).
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After the 1st 2 commandments, everything is "lawful", meaning there is no envy strife etc.
 
netchaplain said:
I wish the sin nature ("old man") was gone but it just no longer has power to cause us to desire to sin. To desire sin or not to desire sin is where every persons heart is (Mat 6:21), and ours is not to desire sin. Scripture says "sin shall not have dominion over you" (Ro 6:14), but nowhere is it said that we can be sinless. "Shall we continue to sin" (Rom 6:1) is in the sense of shall we continue to sin "willfully" (Heb 10:26).
It's the power sin has to condemn you that's dead, not the sin nature itself. If we no longer had the sin nature we would be sinless, and anytime "we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1Jn 1:8).
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I'm sure John meant if we claim to have never sinned. John also said,

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1Jn.3:20 KJV
 
journeyman said:
I'm sure John meant if we claim to have never sinned. John also said,
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I think that's v 10. We deceive ourselves if think we do not sin, and if we think we no longer sin. It's ok if we understand Scripture differently, but Ro 6:6 is one of the most important passages to get right, if you want to grow spiritually in Christ (Eph 4:15).
 
netchaplain said:
I think that's v 10.
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No it's vs.20. If our hearts (consciences) condemn us it's because we know we're not living right and God knows it too.
netchaplain said:
We deceive ourselves if think we do not sin, and if we think we no longer sin.
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We're in the battle now, so lets really walk with Jesus and be conquerors ,
netchaplain said:
It's ok if we understand Scripture differently, but Ro 6:6 is one of the most important passages to get right,
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I know. That's why Eph.6:2-5 used the terms dead and death (which you ignored) to describe Johns' point.
netchaplain said:
if you want to grow spiritually in Christ (Eph 4:15).
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Ephesians begins with Paul addressing a gentile congregation about how God first came to "us" (meaning Jews) and how "we" ( meaning Jews) were given His word to spread (vss.2-12.)
In vs.13 Paul says,

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holySpirit of promise

"Ye" meaning gentiles. It's very important to understand that Paul is teaching gentiles by what happened to his own people the Jews.
 
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