Precedent Faith

[journeymanisnothing]

I think we differ too much in our understanding to comment on each other's posts.

I think we should comment on each others posts for that very reason.

 

[netchaplain]

I think we should comment on each others posts for that very reason.

We'll give it a try! God bless!!

 

[journeymanisnothing]

a

We'll give it a try! God bless!!

God bless you also and all those you hold dear.
It's necessary for us to agree, because we're talking about Gods' word. So we better make sure we get it right.

What "precedes faith" is the reason for everything we do. God is responsible for our faith, because the Messiah came rose from death as the OT said He would. He isn't going to do an encore,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Cor.1:10 KJV

 

[netchaplain]

It's necessary for us to agree, because we're talking about Gods' word. So we better make sure we get it right.

Yes, it is necessary to be right, and we are not always right, but what also matters we share what we think is right, until god shows us the truth. The more we read through all of God's Word, the more He will teach us--by His Spirit, Who is the Author and teacher of God's Word (2Pe 1:21;1Co 2:13; 2Ti 3:16). Of course He is also the creator of our new birth (Jhn 3:5, 6, 8).

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes, it is necessary to be right, and we are not always right, but what also matters we share what we think is right, until god shows us the truth.

No my friend. That is how heresy begins.

The more we read through all of God's Word, the more He will teach us--by His Spirit, Who is the Author and teacher of God's Word (2Pe 1:21;1Co 2:13; 2Ti 3:16). Of course He is also the creator of our new birth (Jhn 3:5, 6, 8).

It's important to read and study the Bible, but the scribes read the scriptures until they could recite them verbatim and they didn't reoignize the Messiah. The reason for this is that their view of what the Bible says went wrong somewhere.

 

[netchaplain]

It's important to read and study the Bible, but the scribes read the scriptures until they could recite them verbatim and they didn't reoignize the Messiah. The reason for this is that their view of what the Bible says went wrong somewhere.

God knew most of the Jews would reject His Son. But they don't reject Him, but rather love Him; which answers to why He always brings them back to Himself. The final restoration of the Jews who believe in God ("ye believe in God" (Jhn14:1) will be during the thousand years reign of the Lord Jesus (Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:24-27).

 

[journeymanisnothing]

God knew most of the Jews would reject His Son. But they don't reject Him, but rather love Him; which answers to why He always brings them back to Himself.

If what you're saying is true, God would have never said,

Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. Psa.95:10-11 KJV

He was speaking to Israelites who kept doubting Him, until they didn't enter His rest. That's what Duerteronomy records.

Hebrews chapters 3-4 make it clear how the men who saw His wonderful deliverance from bondage and kept doubting applies to us today.

The final restoration of the Jews who believe in God ("ye believe in God" (Jhn14:1) will be during the thousand years reign of the Lord Jesus (Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:24-27).

I'm glad you mentioned His reign, because He reigned on earth over demons, wildlife and the weather.Oh yeah, I almost forgot...death.

Now, the Jewish people thought the Messiah would come, destroy their enemies and teach the world about God in peace and harmony

NT theologians believe Jesus is the Messiah, but that he hasn't yet destroyed all our enemies or completed teaching us about God, but will when he returns to reign with all the believers changed. Then, after 1000 years of believers ruling with Jesus, rebellion breaks out and then we get to the truth.

Jesus already overcame the "last enemy."
This is why all His enemies are defeated by His followers the same way, that is by His Spirit in us now, not later. Here is what the Messiah plainly said,

Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zec.4:6

over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Lk.10:19 (Both KJV)

Those men were hunted and killed. They already reigned in mercy over the unsaved and according to passages you already know, a believer lives on after the flesh dies.

You know my friend, I believe God wants us to show this world (which belongs to Him already) what His Kingdom looks like. I believe that's how He comes with uncountable numbers of His saints. When The Messiah appears in Person again, both Paul and Peter teach that any flesh which hasn't been transformed will be obliterated.
The physical universe as we know it will be engulfed in unquenchable fire by His very Peeson.
That is Judgement day. What we each have sown we each will reap.

 

[netchaplain]

If what you're saying is true, God would have never said,

Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. Psa.95:10-11 KJV

I need to know what you mean by "If what you're saying is true."

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I need to know what you mean by "If what you're saying is true."

I mean your statement, "God knew most of the Jews would reject His Son. But they don't reject Him, but rather love Him; which answers to why He always brings them back to Himself."

Anyone who rejects Jesus doesn't love God whether they're Jewish or not. And God doesn't always bring Jews who reject Him back to Himself because the OT passage I cited which says He won't.

Then I cited what Hebrews says about the OT passage, linking what God told Moses to us and furthermore related "not entering His rest" to being barred from eternal life.

Rabbinic commentaries have trouble with that OT passage, because they know "not entering His rest" is equal to not entering the hereafter. They know it says that, but they also believe "the Jews are Gods' chosen people" so it's an enigma to them.

 

[netchaplain]

I mean your statement, "God knew most of the Jews would reject His Son. But they don't reject Him, but rather love Him; which answers to why He always brings them back to Himself."

First, I didn't think make it clear enough by what I meant by "But they don't reject Him, but rather love Him." By "Him" in this sentence I mean God--many Israelites love God but do not believe in His Son. He knew this would be the case, and because they love Him, it's my belief He is going to save them. They just will not inherit the new heaven, but the new earth. Many will not understand this, but it's what I believe.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

First, I didn't think make it clear enough by what I meant by "But they don't reject Him, but rather love Him." By "Him" in this sentence I mean God--many Israelites love God but do not believe in His Son.

It isn't possible to love God but not believe in Jesus,

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me..." Jn.8:42 NIV

1Jo 2:23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: 1Jn.2:23 KJV

He knew this would be the case, and because they love Him, it's my belief He is going to save them. They just will not inherit the new heaven, but the new earth. Many will not understand this, but it's what I believe.

I was taught that too, but the Messiah put no division between Jew and gentile.

 

[netchaplain]

It isn't possible to love God but not believe in Jesus,

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me..." Jn.8:42 NIV

1Jo 2:23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: 1Jn.2:23 KJV

There are many Jews that believe in God (Jn 14:1 "ye believe in God), but since they won't believe in Christ they cannot claim God as their Father, nor can they inherit the new heaven, as one must believe in the Lord Jesus to inherit the new heaven. It's my understanding (through much inferred Scripture) they will continue as a "people of God" on the new earth.

I can't see God allowing them to perish after working with them for four millennia; He always restores them and brings them back to Him, and I believe it will be during the Millennium Kingdom of Christ that they will be brought back to God for the last time (Jer. 31 and Eze. 36 prophesies). I also realize that most Christians will not believe this concerning Israel's eschatology, but that's what I believe (and many Plymouth Brethren circa 17-1800's. Thankfully these teaching are not essential doctrine (teachings concerning how to be saved).

 

[journeymanisnothing]

There are many Jews that believe in God (Jn 14:1 "ye believe in God), but since they won't believe in Christ they cannot claim God as their Father, nor can they inherit the new heaven, as one must believe in the Lord Jesus to inherit the new heaven. It's my understanding (through much inferred Scripture) they will continue as a "people of God" on the new earth.

I can't see God allowing them to perish after working with them for four millennia; He always restores them and brings them back to Him, and I believe it will be during the Millennium Kingdom of Christ that they will be brought back to God for the last time (Jer. 31 and Eze. 36 prophesies). I also realize that most Christians will not believe this concerning Israel's eschatology, but that's what I believe (and many Plymouth Brethren circa 17-1800's. Thankfully these teaching are not essential doctrine (teachings concerning how to be saved).

Gods' people were never chosen because of race. They were chosen because of their faith.

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is ou rfather. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Jn.8:39 KJV

They which are the children of the flesh, these arenot the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Rom.9:8 KJV

Look unto Abrahamy our father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isa.51:2 KJV

Their father according to human lineage, but Abraham was a believer, a spiritual father.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Gods' people were never chosen because of race. They were chosen because of their faith.

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is ou rfather. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Jn.8:39 KJV

They which are the children of the flesh, these arenot the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Rom.9:8 KJV

Look unto Abrahamy our father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isa.51:2 KJV

Their father according to human lineage, but Abraham was a believer, a spiritual father.

In post 53 cited above I miscopied the KJV of Isa.51:2. Isa 51:2 in the KJV says,

Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.

(Sorry about that.

 

[netchaplain]

Gods' people were never chosen because of race. They were chosen because of their faith.

God had His reasons for choosing the Jewish people to be His people first, maybe because He knew they would be the most abused nationality via antisemitism. But yes, God only chooses to save those who desire to have faith in Him. WE desire faith, then God gives it!

Good instruction Friend in Christ! God bless!!

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is ou rfather. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Jn.8:39 KJV

They which are the children of the flesh, these arenot the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Rom.9:8 KJV

Look unto Abrahamy our father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isa.51:2 KJV

Their father according to human lineage, but Abraham was a believer, a spiritual father.

People couldn't be children of God until Christ. One must be a Christian to be a child of God; and He as their Father. This answers to why we never see it written that the the Jews are "children of God," but a "people of God" (for Jewish believers in God). We see it that only Christians are children of God, and can call Him Father!

 

[journeymanisnothing]

God had His reasons for choosing the Jewish people to be His people first,

He didn't choose a particular race first.

for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. Rom.4:9-10 KJV

He chose believers.

People couldn't be children of God until Christ. One must be a Christian to be a child of God; and He as their Father. This answers to why we never see it written that the the Jews are "children of God," but a "people of God" (for Jewish believers in God). We see it that only Christians are children of God, and can call Him Father!

Ye are the children of the LORD Deu.14:1

But now, O LORD, thou art our father Isa.64:8 KJV

 

[netchaplain]

He didn't choose a particular race first.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Rom 1:16)

"But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, then also to the Gentile" (Rom 2:10).

He chose believers.

True! He knows who will choose to believe in Him. It first must be that desire to be right with God, then He brings one to salvation, which is permanent.

Ye are the children of the LORD Deu.14:1

But now, O LORD, thou art our father Isa.64:8 KJV

I believe all the OT Scriptures that us the word "father" "or children" or in any way similar, are in the sense of Procreator, i.e. producer, generator but not a spiritual "Father" (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h1/kjv/wlc/0-1/); I, VI; also I, 2--"a people": Strong's Hebrew. There are also a few other passages that uses the words "father" or "children" in this sense (Isa 63:16; Exo 4:22; Deu 32:6).

I believe this also answers to why the word "father" is never capitalized until Christ. To be a spiritual child of the Father one must be in Christ! Of course it's ok is you don't accept this, it's just what I have always accepted as truth.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Rom 1:16)

To everyone who believes, not all Jews and gentiles.

"But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, then also to the Gentile" (Rom 2:10).

To everyone who works good, not everyone within a race.

I believe all the OT Scriptures that us the word "father" "or children" or in any way similar, are in the sense of Procreator, i.e. producer, generator but not a spiritual "Father"

Can we agree that when Jesus said,

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: Jn.8:42 KJV

He didn't mean God wasn't their Creator?

 

[netchaplain]

Can we agree that when Jesus said,

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: Jn.8:42 KJV

He didn't mean God wasn't their Creator?

Right! It would be untrue if one were to say God is not the Creator of all people.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Right! It would be untrue if one were to say God is not the Creator of all people.

Ok...then Jesus wasn't saying, "If God was your Creator, you would love Me."
He meant spiritual Father.