Proclaiming God's Love with BOLDNESS

[MrVersatile48]

Sister

I only just saw that you are from Phoenix - HQ of Masters Commission

Folk from Southport AoG - where I used to live - have been to several conferences organised there by http://www.mcin.org (I'll yahoo if link wrong)

Have you?

http://www.shorelinechurch.org.uk will be still recruiting for the year training prog that starts in Sept - as will all the MC hosting churches worldwide

THE MASTER'S COMMISSION

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:: Masters Commission USA ::
What is Masters Society " History of Masters Society " Word from ... Links " Phoenix First. Assembly " Masters Commission. International. Institutes " ...

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MCE - Master's Commission Europe

... trained and equipped to live out and fulfill the great Commission of the Master. ... © MCE 2006. All rights reserved. MCE Web Design & Master's Commission Europe. ...

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MCIN - Masters Commission International Network

mcin.org ... Download information on starting a Master's Commission ... jobs, register to start a masters commission or become an affiliate, and more ...

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UK readers may recall Pastor Pete from many media features as "God's Estate Agent" - pioneering Green Pastures homeless ministry by liquidating his own pension fund to buy the first house

Dealing With Homelessness: Heather Bellamy interviewed Pastor Peter Cunningham

... Peter Cunningham of Green Pastures, an organisation that houses homeless people. ... finding out about the awesome work you do with Green Pastures, Housing Homeless. ...

http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/ ... s/23436/p1 - 49k - Cached - More pages from this site

Ian

 

[sisterchristian]

No I've never been, but I have been to Phoenix first assembly, it's huge, they also have a play every year for Easter, which is very awsome. We also have a Dream Center here that another son of Pastor Barnett runs.

 

[sisterchristian]

Read Matt.22:13-33 I think Jesus makes a better example here then you do!

I do not understand why you are making this personal. Christ will always make a better example than any of us. However, as I mentioned in a previous post - I believe the key to being bold is found in the "need of the moment".

Let's put the verse you mention in the context of the whole Chapter 23 (assuming that you meant Matthew 23:13-33).

Verse 1-3 explains that Jesus would be critical of the Pharisee's because they placed themselves in the "chair of Moses". They did not have the authority from God to do as such. Verse 3 Jesus tells the crowd that they were to follow what the Pharisees 'said" but not to do what they do. In other words, the crowd was to follow what the Pharisees read from - the Written Word of God. However, the people were not to follow their deeds in how they applied it.

In the 'need of the moment' Christ leveled out some serious Woes. At the same time, I believe it was Christ, and Christ alone that would be able to level those 'woes'. Let he who has no sin, cast the first stone.

A "bold" word spoken not in the "need of the moment" can be more disastorious (spell checker please!) than good. In all things we should pray to the Father for the appropriate direction and timing.

Psalm 19:14 "Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer. "

This is not meant to be personal, it is meant to be specific. Your interpretation of what is right in the "need of the moment" is fine, except that the moment that you are in is entirely different than the moment that we are in as we proclaim the word of God to various people. Jesus shows us how to proclaim the word of God to those in our society like the scribes and the Pharisees. My point concerning Jesus being a better example than you gives the necessity of using Him as our example and not you when your example differs from His. We should all walk in the Spirit as we discern the teachings that we encounter, and we should proclaim quite clearly what the word of God says on the subject, as well as the consequences when one rejects the word of God. To beat around the bush so as not to offend one who by stating the word of God is unfounded and unscriptural.

As you have stated concerning the "need of the moment", some situations require different types of Boldness when proclaiming the truth in love. Did Jesus love the scribes and the Pharisees? Yes. Did Jesus speak to them Boldly, in a different manner than he did the woman by the well that had had five husbands, and was currently living with a man whom she wasn't married to? Yes.

The scribes and the Pharisees were Boldly faced by Jesus in the manner that they were because they were setting themselves up as spokesmen for God when they were going against God's will. So too, do I when proclaiming the word of God to those who set themselves up as God proclaiming false teachings. They too are vipers, and hypocrites, and liars as their father the devil. The Pharisees are in hell because of their inability to believe the word of God, and many who believe that they are God's children but are not will too be with the Pharisees in hell.

If the staff of this place cannot stand up against the false teachers of the world as Jesus gave as an example and the Holy Spirit gives us discernment, then perhaps this place is not in the will of God.

 

[Guest]

sister - just to be clear on a point or two. I never suggested, "beating around the bush". If so, perhaps you can point it out to me so I may make a correction. Using 'tact' is not the same as "beating around the bush'.

Rather, what I suggested about using tact is making sure that we are walking in the Spirit and allowing the Spirit to be our guide and in all things honoring to Eph 4:29 and Psalm 19:14.

I believe that Christ was/is in a unique position to call others a 'broad of vipers'. Why? Because He was theologically pure in all HIs teachings. He didn't get anything wrong - there were no 'false teachings'. Unfortunately for us - no matter how theologically pure we think we are - we do not get everything completely correct! If we did, there are many discussions we wouldn't be having (Free will vs. Election, Pre-Trib/Post-Trib/Pre-Mill/Post-Mill/A-Mill, etc etc) We wouldn't have the countless denominations.

Sister - in the past and still today, people claim "boldness' to excuse behavior that is inappropiate and does not edify God. I just merely wanted to contrast your examples with the fullness of Scripture. Our Christian walk is a balance, when we focus too much on one side, I believe we err.

 

[sisterchristian]

10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 1:10-16

 

[Guest]

10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 1:10-16

Yes - Paul is giving Titus very explicit directions to appoint overseers in the church at Crete (Titus 1:5-9). Paul goes on to provide examples of the false teachings that have entered into the church and surround the church in Crete.

Sister, is there an area where we are in disagreement on speaking boldly?

 

[sisterchristian]

To not speak the word Boldly is embraced by too many Christians who are unwilling to speak truth for fear of their own reputations … willing to let confused and lost friends and family members who are “Deceived†flounder in deceit and condemnation rather than risk their own “likeability.†That’s the blood I would fear having on my hands.

What does God hate? Religious phonies … liars … deceivers. Jesus drove them from the temple with a whip. He reserved his Harshest comments for false teachers … calling them “blind guides … hypocrites … open-throated graves.â€Â


If that is what God hates, then I guess I am a “monger.†If love is letting friends and family lead destructive lives while standing by, nodding in approval, then I choose not to “love.†But I do choose to be a friend … a faithful friend … the one who speaks truth even at the risk of friendship and maybe, in this case, my reputation.

 

[Vic C.]

... If the staff of this place cannot stand up against the false teachers of the world as Jesus gave as an example and the Holy Spirit gives us discernment, then perhaps this place is not in the will of God.

I was going to stay out of this until I read that last comment. That was totally uncalled for and I think you're missing Alone's (and Paul's and Jesus' point) First off, statements in public against the Staff of the site is not proper conduct. Secondly, it is the Mods place to steer topics back on topic and to mediate (intercede) when things begin to get out of hand. It is not their place to give in to the whims of the members, no matter their doctrinal beliefs. If we stomped out everyone some members thought to be false teachers, all you'd have is a group of self righteous people who believe only they're way is right. So, we'd all be here, patting each other on the back, saying, "I guess we showed them who's boss." ... Boring!

I'm all for being radical in one's Faith, but I've also been here for five years and have seen first hand that the in your face style does nothing to edify the Body. I've also been asked not so politely by some family members and co workers to get off my high horse due to these very witnessing tactics. You think I will be able to witness to them in that way again or do you think my witness has been damaged by being overy aggressive? I choose the latter. Yes, it worked for Jesus and Alone explained that rather nicely. He was sinless and even said that anyone who has no sin among them are able to cast the first stone. I can assure all of you here, that is none of us... it sure isn't you are me!

Everyone has a different spiritual gift, but I don't see boldness list as one of those gifts. Lets all use a little discernment and a lotta love when spreading the GOOD NEWS.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

Peace,
Vic

 

[sisterchristian]

... If the staff of this place cannot stand up against the false teachers of the world as Jesus gave as an example and the Holy Spirit gives us discernment, then perhaps this place is not in the will of God.

I was going to stay out of this until I read that last comment. That was totally uncalled for and I think you're missing Alone's (and Paul's and Jesus' point) First off, statements in public against the Staff of the site is not proper conduct. Secondly, it is the Mods place to steer topics back on topic and to mediate (intercede) when things begin to get out of hand. It is not their place to give in to the whims of the members, no matter their doctrinal beliefs. If we stomped out everyone some members thought to be false teachers, all you'd have is a group of self righteous people who believe only they're way is right. So, we'd all be here, patting each other on the back, saying, "I guess we showed them who's boss." ... Boring!

I'm all for being radical in one's Faith, but I've also been here for five years and have seen first hand that the in your face style does nothing to edify the Body. I've also been asked not so politely by some family members and co workers to get off my high horse due to these very witnessing tactics. You think I will be able to witness to them in that way again or do you think my witness has been damaged by being overy aggressive? I choose the latter. Yes, it worked for Jesus and Alone explained that rather nicely. He was sinless and even said that anyone who has no sin among them are able to cast the first stone. I can assure all of you here, that is none of us... it sure isn't you are me!

Everyone has a different spiritual gift, but I don't see boldness list as one of those gifts. Lets all use a little discernment and a lotta love when spreading the GOOD NEWS.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

Peace,
Vic

Well it seems to me that Potluck is "straddling the fence" or so to speak on his beliefs between Catholicism and protestants. And seeing how the "message of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing" I'm not surprised that you were told to get off your high horse! But since Francis has on his profile that he teaches Catholicism to people, well then I think that would definitely qualify him as False Teacher and they need to be dealt with accordingly! likeI said before, with as much truth that has been told here to him (scriptures and all) he is going to be held accountable for not recieving! I thought this forum would be different from AI, but I guess I was wrong. You can't speak the truth here either. I have no problem with you Vic, but I think you need another mod in the Catholicism forum.

 

[Guest]

sister - if you have an issue with a particular Mod, then please - take it to them in PM. I believe that is the Christ-like approach - Matthew 18:15-19

In regards to 'speaking the truth' - I am not sure that anyone has said that you cannot 'speak the truth' - just the manner in which you are saying it.

For example, there are issues within the AoG or Southern Baptist that I disagree with theologically - that does not mean that they are a 'broad of vipers'. I suppose we here at 123 could have taken the approach of banning all RCC topics and those who claim to be RCC members - what good of a witness is that? How can one witness to them then? How can we fufill the mission that Christ commissioned us with - a ministry of reconcillation?

 

[Vic C.]

In regards to 'speaking the truth' - I am not sure that anyone has said that you cannot 'speak the truth' - just the manner in which you are saying it.

Thanks Scott... and to add to this, this is all the issue has been; it's not what's said in general, it's how it's being said. We can paint a pleasing picture of Christianity that at the same time, isn't compromising or we can just dip our hands in the paint and finger-paint, like we all used to do in kindergarten and grade school.

Another analogy would be; we can be a hurricane that pushes people farther backwards or we can be that small, cool, misty breeze at their backs, gently helping to push them forward, in the right direction and allowing that mist to water the seeds we plant... or we can just let the hurricane waters wash away the seeds. 8-)

It's a personal choice we all have to make and one we may well be held accountable for in the end. ;-)