Prosperity

[RandyK]

A critique of Osteen's Prosperity Gospel:

I submitted my own response as follows:
Simple answer has taken me years to learn: Jesus in his earthly ministry preached the Law, which required all 316 or so requirements and included, in Deuteronomy, the promise to prosper the Israeli nation. This promise of prosperity, however, required obedience to the Law of Moses, and was a general promise of prosperity for the *nation* and not for *individuals.*

God gifts individuals and calls them individually. Some He will prosper materially, and some He will not. We all have to submit to God's will. But we all have to obey in order to enjoy God's favor with respect to our eternal inheritance.

This is true for nations today in the New Testament era. Our nation will be blessed if we obey, as a people, the Gospel of Christ. Some individuals will be wonderfully prospered. Others will be called to less "material" prosperity, but will prosper in other ways.

But we must all submit to the Cross. And we saw how a nation will end up when a nation is in spiritual decline and disobeys God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Simple answer has taken me years to learn: Jesus in his earthly ministry preached the Law, which required all 316 or so requirements and included, in Deuteronomy, the promise to prosper the Israeli nation. This promise of prosperity, however, required obedience to the Law of Moses, and was a general promise of prosperity for the *nation* and not for *individuals.*

Blessings, Randy.

It could be said that many of the famous prosperity passages like in Deuteronomy 28 were written to national Israel as a whole, but there were some passages that were written to the individual.

Psalm 1:1-3
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.

Psalm 92:12-15
The righteous man shall flourish like a palm tree, he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon. Those who are planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bear fruit in old age; they shall be fresh and flourishing, to declare that the Lord is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.
Proverbs 13:4
The soul of a lazy man desires and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich.

Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will not lack, but he who hides his eyes will have many curses.

Ecclesiastes 5:19
As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor—this is the gift of God.

I think the primary problem is that there are higher promises in the New Testament about not storing up earthly treasures down here but storing them in Heaven instead, and part of that "prosperity" includes having a faith that has been purified in the fire like gold. That is a reference to enduring sufferings and trials, as opposed to living the good life, so the mindset is different. A New Testament perspective sees prosperity through the lens of what will be our final state in eternity. It's why He told the Laodiceans, "You say, ‘I am rich. I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." (Revelation 3:17). There is a higher, more enduring form of true prosperity we should be pursuing if we are wise, though the scripture never forbids us from having earthly wealth, just that it is not the true riches we should ultimately be seeking to attain.

 

[RandyK]

Blessings, Randy.

It could be said that many of the famous prosperity passages like in Deuteronomy 28 were written to national Israel as a whole, but there were some passages that were written to the individual.

Psalm 1:1-3
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.

Psalm 92:12-15
The righteous man shall flourish like a palm tree, he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon. Those who are planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bear fruit in old age; they shall be fresh and flourishing, to declare that the Lord is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.
Proverbs 13:4
The soul of a lazy man desires and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich.

Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will not lack, but he who hides his eyes will have many curses.

Ecclesiastes 5:19
As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor—this is the gift of God.

I think the primary problem is that there are higher promises in the New Testament about not storing up earthly treasures down here but storing them in Heaven instead, and part of that "prosperity" includes having a faith that has been purified in the fire like gold. That is a reference to enduring sufferings and trials, as opposed to living the good life, so the mindset is different. A New Testament perspective sees prosperity through the lens of what will be our final state in eternity. It's why He told the Laodiceans, "You say, ‘I am rich. I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." (Revelation 3:17). There is a higher, more enduring form of true prosperity we should be pursuing if we are wise, though the scripture never forbids us from having earthly wealth, just that it is not the true riches we should ultimately be seeking to attain.

Yes, my point, however, was that the particular passage in Deuteronomy was for the *nation* as a a whole, which Jesus surely had in mind throughout his earthly ministry. And Jesus certainly knew the nation was failing, and about to enter into the curse of exile.

And Jesus certainly knew that there were some individuals who were or would be faithful to his message, even as the nation was falling. There are, as well, promises for individuals, but cannot then be automatically assumed to be the same for every individual in Israel.

For example, if God gave the gift of craftmanship to one individual in Israel to build the furniture of the Tabernacle, not every individual in Israel could claim to have that ability. But the promise of prosperity to the nation applied to the nation as a whole when the nation, as a majority, followed God's laws, even if a few individuals did not conform properly to that Law.

We can expect that every individual will be blessed spiritually, as you say, with "heavenly treasure" when each individual faithfully adheres to the Gospel of Christ. This is for every individual that does this in a nation, even if the nation as a whole does not, as a majority, follow the Gospel of Christ properly.

Thank you for the additional information which is certainly true!

 

[RandyK]

Blessings, Randy.

It could be said that many of the famous prosperity passages like in Deuteronomy 28 were written to national Israel as a whole, but there were some passages that were written to the individual.

Psalm 1:1-3
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.

Psalm 92:12-15
The righteous man shall flourish like a palm tree, he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon. Those who are planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bear fruit in old age; they shall be fresh and flourishing, to declare that the Lord is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.
Proverbs 13:4
The soul of a lazy man desires and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich.

Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will not lack, but he who hides his eyes will have many curses.

Ecclesiastes 5:19
As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor—this is the gift of God.

I think the primary problem is that there are higher promises in the New Testament about not storing up earthly treasures down here but storing them in Heaven instead, and part of that "prosperity" includes having a faith that has been purified in the fire like gold. That is a reference to enduring sufferings and trials, as opposed to living the good life, so the mindset is different. A New Testament perspective sees prosperity through the lens of what will be our final state in eternity. It's why He told the Laodiceans, "You say, ‘I am rich. I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." (Revelation 3:17). There is a higher, more enduring form of true prosperity we should be pursuing if we are wise, though the scripture never forbids us from having earthly wealth, just that it is not the true riches we should ultimately be seeking to attain.

I'm abandoning this thread because it seems so questionable and concocted. Thanks.

 

[miamited]

I'm abandoning this thread because it seems so questionable and concocted. Thanks.

But it's your thread!!!! You're abandoning a thread that you started because the first response makes you feel that your thread is questionable and concocted? Honestly, that sounds like you're possibly a bit too thin skinned to support your own premise.

However, I do agree that God has given no promise to an individual that they will be wealthy monetarily in this life. In fact, if we merely go by the example of the christians described throughout the writing of the Acts of the apostles; if we know and understand the lives lived of God's for sure faithful, the first followers from the group of 12, then surely we can see that God isn't promising anyone financial wealth in following Him.

 

[RandyK]

But it's your thread!!!! You're abandoning a thread that you started because the first response makes you feel that your thread is questionable and concocted? Honestly, that sounds like you're possibly a bit too thin skinned to support your own premise.

However, I do agree that God has given no promise to an individual that they will be wealthy monetarily in this life. In fact, if we merely go by the example of the christians described throughout the writing of the Acts of the apostles; if we know and understand the lives lived of God's for sure faithful, the first followers from the group of 12, then surely we can see that God isn't promising anyone financial wealth in following Him.

Thank you, Ted. No, I haven't abandoned my position. But my response was based on what may have been a manufactured or engineered drama. It's the drama I wish to abandon--not what I said my beliefs are.

If anyone wishes to take me up on the beliefs I hold to, I welcome that. I can continue with that, if desired?

I'm embarrassed by the notion that I fell for a an AI dramatization that may or may not have been real. I'm hiding in a corner and sucking my thumb as I type....