Protecting Church Abusers

[Vince]

Folks, there have been four bizarre instances in the last few months concerning abuse. One involves Penn State, and the other three involve churches. Most Chritians will immediately jump up and sincerely shout their opposition to abuse, but in real life, that's not what happens. In real life, there are usually six steps by leadership when abuse occurs.

1) Attempt to deal with it quietly. That's often all right, but you sometimes get a person who knows how to "work" the system. When that happens, the next step SHOULD be "Go to the police," but that's not what happens.

2) Cover up.

3) Lie

4) Criticize the people who object to the abuse.

5) Slander the people who object to the abuse.

6) Remain stuck in a series of sins that the church feels it can't get out of.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The counsel of scripture is very plain. When the leadership sins, they are to be rebuked publicly.

19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning." (1 Timothy 5:19-20 NIV1984)

I've seen this counsel ignored twice in the same church, concerning the same offense, adultery. As a result, instead of the matter being put to rest quickly, and preserving the church, the silent and non-public handling of the problem (twice) created lots of gossip and wondering and suspicions that lasted for a long time.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Many Christians use some malarkey excuse that there needs to be two witnesses to the abuse in order to act on it. Which is really useful for all the people who abuse kids in mall food courts and other highly public locations (sarcasm here).

 

[BornAgain]

The counsel of scripture is very plain. When the leadership sins, they are to be rebuked publicly.

19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning." (1 Timothy 5:19-20 NIV1984)

I've seen this counsel ignored twice in the same church, concerning the same offense, adultery. As a result, instead of the matter being put to rest quickly, and preserving the church, the silent and non-public handling of the problem (twice) created lots of gossip and wondering and suspicions that lasted for a long time.

Speaking of personal experience, this last March my husband and I mutually agreed to separate with the intentions of reconciling (which we have). I was visiting a church for a few weeks and asked my husband to meet with me to speak with the elders to discuss our separation.

My husband was a member at another church and we attended services at different churches. The preacher at the church I was attending started showing special interest in my situation and texting me asking if I was ok. He is married with 2 children living on the church property. One text led to phone calls and then he began telling me how unhappy is in his relationship and has been for a long time and I started counseling him! It then turned into asking me out for dinner, etc and I told him to speak with the elders to get counsel and he said it would never do any good, his wife would never change. He is a very respected preacher, well liked by the congregation and I never did present this to the elders for fear that they would not believe me. I left and went to another church but regret that I did not address the elders because he will probably do it again.

Ironically, the preacher at the church where my husband (now we attend) has been hospitalized and the preacher from the other organization visits him in the hospital and everybody thinks he is the greatest person.

I should have handled it differently looking back but was fearful as I was new, attending by myself and thought the members would look down on me. He was only preaching there for a few months and the church was growing and every Sunday they thanked God for sending him to their church and I thought I wouldn't have been believed.

There is a lot of details I left out but this is it in a short version...

 

[reba]

Many Christians use some malarkey excuse that there needs to be two witnesses to the abuse in order to act on it. Which is really useful for all the people who abuse kids in mall food courts and other highly public locations (sarcasm here).

Thinking back 60+ years, about this 2 witness stuff.... The same guy that molested my older sister molested me.... had one of us spoke up there would have been 2 witness and most likely a lot more.... I did not tell tell until he died.

Hind sight can be 20 / 20

Born again I would tell .. He may have to answer to a bishop or presbyter maybe not only the local church....... knowing what i know today i would tell ..... we the "guy in the pew" need to clean house...

....you said he was there only a few months any one want odds on why he left the other place....

 

[BornAgain]

Thinking back 60+ years, about this 2 witness stuff.... The same guy that molested my older sister molested me.... had one of us spoke up there would have been 2 witness and most likely a lot more.... I did not tell tell until he died.

Hind sight can be 20 / 20

Born again I would tell .. He may have to answer to a bishop or presbyter maybe not only the local church....... knowing what i know today i would tell ..... we the "guy in the pew" need to clean house...

....you said he was there only a few months any one want odds on why he left the other place....

My husband and I wonder, also why he left the other church in Alabama...a long way to travel. You are right as to protect the "guy in the pew." I do not have any proof now, my word against his. During our last conversation I asked him to repent, speak with the elders and get right with God. This was over the phone and he pretended like he had no clue what I was talking about. That was in May and I have not heard anything from him since.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Speaking of personal experience, this last March my husband and I mutually agreed to separate with the intentions of reconciling (which we have). I was visiting a church for a few weeks and asked my husband to meet with me to speak with the elders to discuss our separation.

My husband was a member at another church and we attended services at different churches. The preacher at the church I was attending started showing special interest in my situation and texting me asking if I was ok. He is married with 2 children living on the church property. One text led to phone calls and then he began telling me how unhappy is in his relationship and has been for a long time and I started counseling him! It then turned into asking me out for dinner, etc and I told him to speak with the elders to get counsel and he said it would never do any good, his wife would never change. He is a very respected preacher, well liked by the congregation and I never did present this to the elders for fear that they would not believe me. I left and went to another church but regret that I did not address the elders because he will probably do it again.

Ironically, the preacher at the church where my husband (now we attend) has been hospitalized and the preacher from the other organization visits him in the hospital and everybody thinks he is the greatest person.

I should have handled it differently looking back but was fearful as I was new, attending by myself and thought the members would look down on me. He was only preaching there for a few months and the church was growing and every Sunday they thanked God for sending him to their church and I thought I wouldn't have been believed.

There is a lot of details I left out but this is it in a short version...

Honestly, just in this condensed version here I'd say you handled it appropriately. My opinion would be it would have to have gone further to require a public confrontation. But I guess you know whether he shared any clearly inappropriate affections with you or not.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thinking back 60+ years, about this 2 witness stuff.... The same guy that molested my older sister molested me.... had one of us spoke up there would have been 2 witness and most likely a lot more.... I did not tell tell until he died.

Hind sight can be 20 / 20

Born again I would tell .. He may have to answer to a bishop or presbyter maybe not only the local church....... knowing what i know today i would tell ..... we the "guy in the pew" need to clean house...

....you said he was there only a few months any one want odds on why he left the other place....

The law shows us that sexual sin is a difficult matter to deal with in regard to witnesses. Matters like that were to be thoroughly investigated by the leadership. It's just one of those things that, because of the nature of the offense, has no witnesses. It's encouraging to know God acknowledges that can happen.

 

[BornAgain]

Honestly, just in this condensed version here I'd say you handled it appropriately. My opinion would be it would have to have gone further to require a public confrontation. But I guess you know whether he shared any clearly inappropriate affections with you or not.

I think so, too. This was not a mutual feeling, just on his part. Regardless if it was I would not consent for obvious reasons.

Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Mike]

The courage it takes to speak up about this cannot be understated. Sandusky, who spoke up first at Penn State was going against a huge contingent of school and athletic supporters who would no doubt count him as a villain. And what if they couldn't support his claim with evidence. His life would be ruined.

Those who blow the whistle at church are putting themselves at risk in a community where they worship and often wrap their lives around, and they too are among the most courageous people you'll find. They are despised by those who only know the pastor from the pews and love him, and more will hate them for making it publicly known even if they believe them.

We once attended a church where the pastor was found to be attending strip clubs. This isn't as bad as molestation, but the way he became the "victim" among the congregation was an abomination. I'm not talking about child molesters when I affirm that people deserve second chances, but when a congregation demonizes a person who brings this to light and immediately runs to the defense of the accused simply because he is the pastor, values need to be assessed. Cowards lie to cover up what strong people seek to expose.

 

[Vince]

There have been several cases in which a church member has been accused of sex abuse. He denies it, and the church rallies to his support. And then he finally confesses that he did it. The hysterics holler up and down about how evil the church was to support a sex abuser, not realizing that they would have done the same thing.

For some time before the Penn State scandal broke, a woman reporter for a small newspaper was reporting that Jerry Sandusky was taking advantage of young boys. But no one--not the police or any large newspaper, believed her. And as two decades of rumors circulated around Penn State, nobody went to the state police.

Decades ago, a college did a study on abuse and found a woman whose father had raped her several times. When the girl finally reported it, her father's sister had led a family crusade against her, successfully uniting the entire family in disbelieving her and rejecting her. And then the father had confessed that it was true. The college tried to interview the aunt as to how she could have been so sure, but she refused to be interviewed.

And now the truth: the typical, NORMAL, regular, routine response to abuse is to not believe it. Abusers often learn to exploit this, and churches do not realize what they are up against.

 

[Vince]

A couple of decades ago, my wife and a friend were driving home from church, with our ten-year old son in the backseat with a man named Jimmy. When they got home, my son told me that Jimmy had kept trying to put his hands on my son, and my son had kept fighting him off. The two women in the front seat did not see or hear anything.

Folks, the police are trained to deal with this. They were sympathetic (not enough evidence for an arrest), but they recorded my report. They brought in a county police officer who was currently investigating Jimmy. Jimmy was suing the county for banning him from Little League games, and my report was something the county needed. But while the police had several scattered reports, most parents didn't want to go to court, and Jimmy was pretty smart about not getting seen by adult eyewitnesses.

But Jimmy was eventually banned from all libraries and playgrounds, and whenever he would go to a new church, I would call the pastor and warn him. People would tell me about Jimmy's latest attempts, but they were unwilling to go to the police. But EVERYONE WHO WENT TO THE POLICE FOUND THEM TO BE SYMPATHETIC AND HELPFUL.

Don't be afraid to go to the police. The police are friendly to parents and children, and they will do what they can to help you.

 

[reba]

In a situation of sex abuse i found the police to be very helpful, caring, warm etc. The court was a different world.....

 

[Pigeon]

4) Criticize the people who object to the abuse.

5) Slander the people who object to the abuse.

How in the world do you get away with these two?

 

[Vince]

Reba, I am afraid that you have correctly explained why many victims don't want to go to court. The abuser's lawyer will throw every insult he can at the victim.

My friend Pigeon 88 asked how the organization can get away with criticizing and then slandering the people who objected to the abuse. Since nobody is perfect, criticizing someone is easy. And when done properly, slander doesn't have to be provable; it only has to raise doubts. By steadily badmouthing the people who object to the abuse, the organization can convince others that those people are unreliable witnesses.

 

[Vince]

A friend of mine posted:

I recently read excerpts from a book that will coming out soon -- a biography of Joe Paterno. The writer states that on the day after Joe was fired, he was inconsolable -- weeping and wailing about the house, and that he was in that condition for days. "I've worked hard my whole life to make a good name for myself, and now it's gone ..., all gone!"

Reading that, one cannot help feeling really bad for Joe, until you stop and realize what it was he was not saying; the young boys for whom he was not weeping and wailing; the broken and battered lives for whom he was not broken-hearted.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

A friend of mine posted:

I recently read excerpts from a book that will coming out soon -- a biography of Joe Paterno. The writer states that on the day after Joe was fired, he was inconsolable -- weeping and wailing about the house, and that he was in that condition for days. "I've worked hard my whole life to make a good name for myself, and now it's gone ..., all gone!"

Reading that, one cannot help feeling really bad for Joe, until you stop and realize what it was he was not saying; the young boys for whom he was not weeping and wailing; the broken and battered lives for whom he was not broken-hearted.

So you heard from someone who read something about someone who read snippets of a book written by yet another person, allegedly about even yet another person. Much as I'm wanting to believe your fifth-hand information, you fail to mention that Paterno DID report him to the authorities, back in 2002. It was the school who buried it, not him.

While we're talking about things people read online somewhere, I read that 45% of people think Joe Paterno himself was the one molesting the kids. Which leads me to believe people are more focused on the scandal as opposed to the facts.

And as for Sandusky, put him in the general population. Problem solved.

 

[Vince]

Folks, my previous post refers to a 1998 internal investigation by Penn State that concluded that the reports about Jerry Sandusky were true. Paterno knew about the report, and he agreed to participate in a cover-up. Because the crimes had been reported to the Penn State University Police Department, there was no legal obligation to go to the Pennsylvania State Police, even though Penn State was doing a cover-up.

 

[reba]

So you heard from someone who read something about someone who read snippets of a book written by yet another person, allegedly about even yet another person. Much as I'm wanting to believe your fifth-hand information, you fail to mention that Paterno DID report him to the authorities, back in 2002. It was the school who buried it, not him.

While we're talking about things people read online somewhere, I read that 45% of people think Joe Paterno himself was the one molesting the kids. Which leads me to believe people are more focused on the scandal as opposed to the facts.

And as for Sandusky, put him in the general population. Problem solved.

This post tends to prove the OP

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Folks, my previous post refers to a 1998 internal investigation by Penn State that concluded that the reports about Jerry Sandusky were true. Paterno knew about the report, and he agreed to participate in a cover-up. Because the crimes had been reported to the Penn State University Police Department, there was no legal obligation to go to the Pennsylvania State Police, even though Penn State was doing a cover-up.

Paterno participated in no coverup whatsoever. The football coach does not have the authority to press charges, investigate, or fire people. This is all done by the police and/or administration. He reported what he knew. The SCHOOL covered it up, and they're scumlords for it.