Psalm 110:1 - Yahweh said to Yahweh

[SolaScriptura]

Psalm 110:1 – “nü´ùm Yehôvâh lA´dönî”

A very important verse, and Psalm.

In the greater majority of English Versions, we have as in the King James Bible, “The LORD said unto my Lord”.

In some Versions, like the 2011 New International, Good News, English Standard Version, New American Bible, NET and New Revised Standard Version, have adopted the reading:

“The LORD said to my lord”

In the 1984 edition of the New International, this verse reads: “The Lord says to my Lord”

Versions before the King James, Myles Coverdale, 1535, “The LORDE sayde vnto my LORDE”, Bishops, 1558, “God sayd vnto my Lorde”, and Geneva, 1587, “The Lord said vnto my Lorde”.

Interestingly, the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, reads:

“The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is” (1984)

And, in their 2013 edition, “Jehovah declared to my Lord”

The Greek Old Testament (LXX), reads: “ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου” (Rahlfs’)

However, in the Greek Old Testament translated in the 2nd century AD, by the Jewish scholar, Symmachus, it reads; “ὁ κύριος τῷ δεσπότη μου”. Where “δεσπότη”, is generally “master”.

A Jewish website run by a Rabbi, has this to say on this verse:

“I should note that the second “lord” in Hebrew is not “ado-nai” – the term the Torah reserves for God, but “adoni”. The latter is a simple Hebrew word which means “my lord” but is not sacred. Throughout the Torah that word is used in reference to honored human beings but never to God, e.g. Genesis 18:3, 23:6, 24:18, 31:35, 33:8, 34:14, 44:18, etc. Thus, it was incorrectly capitalized in your translation. In fact, Hebrew has no capital letters so capitalizations which are found in English translations are merely based on translators’ assumptions, and as you can see, are not always reliable.”

(Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld; https://www.aish.com/atr/Psalm-110-Two-Lords.html)

Firstly, we have the statement, that “adoni”, is use to honor men, and never God. This is misleading, and false. “adoni”, is from the root, “´ädön”

In at least THREE places in the Torah, this very word is used for YHWH.

"Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord GOD (hä´ädön Yah·weh Exo 23:17)

"Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel (hä´ädön Yah·weh ´élöhê yiSrä´ël. (Exo 34:23)”

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God (Yah·weh´élö hêkem hû´ ´élöhê hä´élöhîm wa´ádönê hä´ádönîm), mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. (Deu 10:17)”

Secondly. there are also a number of other places, especially in the Psalms, where “´ädön”, is used for YHWH:

"Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth, (´ádôn kāl hā·’ā·reṣ)” (Jos 3:11)” . And verse 13

“Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord (Yah·weh ’ă·ḏō·nê·nū), and His ordinances and His statutes” (Nehemiah 10:29)

“O LORD, our Lord (Yah·weh ’ă·ḏō·nê·nū), How excellent is Your name in all the earth, Who have set Your glory above the heavens!” (Psalm 8:1). And verse 9

“The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the LORD (Yah·weh), At the presence of the Lord (’ă·ḏō·wn) of the whole earth” (Psalm 97:5)

“Tremble, O earth, at the presence of the Lord (’ă·ḏō·wn), At the presence of the God (’ĕ·lō·w·ah) of Jacob” (Psalm 114:7)

“Oh, give thanks to the Lord (la·’ă·ḏō·nê) of lords (hā·’ă·ḏō·nîm)! For His mercy endures forever” (Psalm 136:3)

“Therefore the Lord (hā·’ā·ḏō·wn) says, The LORD of hosts (Yah·weh ṣə·ḇā·’ō·wṯ), the Mighty One of Israel” (Isaiah 1:24)

“Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord (hā·’ā·ḏō·wn), whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the Covenant (ū·mal·’aḵ hab·bə·rîṯ) In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the LORD of hosts (Yah·weh ṣə·ḇā·’ō·wṯ)” (Malachi 3:1)

Thirdly, it makes no difference, if the text reads, “my Lord”, or, “your Lord”, or “the Lord”, or “our Lord”, as the root Hebrew word used in these, and other passages, when referring to YHWH, is clearly, “´ädön”. The same word is also used for humans, but not exclusively as some wrongly suggest, which is for theological reasons.

Fourthly, it is not correct to say that “ado-nai”, is used only for God.

In Genesis 19:2, Lot says to the 2 angels, “And he said, "Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant's house and spend the night”. Where “my lords” is the Hebrew, “´ádönay”. In verse 18 we read, “Then Lot said to them, "Please, no, my lords!”, here the Hebrew is, “´ádönäy”, similar, but different. This is the word that is supposed to be reserved for God only.

In Ezra 10:3, we have, “"Now therefore, let us make a covenant with our God to put away all these wives and those who have been born to them, according to the advice of my master”. This refers to the advice Ezra gives in the previous chapter. Here “my master” is the Hebrew, “´ádönäy”, which is also used for a human.

Clear evidence that “´ádönäy” is not only used for Almighty God.

There is some speculation, that “´ádönay” in verse 1, is a human person, such as Abraham, or some king. This is not possible from the context in which it is used, especially with the words that follow, “Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”.

To sit at the Right Hand of God, cannot be for any human person. It is clear from this whole Psalm, that the “´ádönay” of verse 1 is an equal to Yahweh.

In the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD, leading Jewish scholars taught that “´ádönay” refers to the Messiah.

“Rabbi Yudan said in the name of Rabbi Hama, "In the future, the Holy One, blessed be He, will seat the Messiah King at His right hand, as it says, 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand"' (Psalm 110:1)”

Midrash Tehillim 18:29

"Say another thing and give me the shield of your salvation." Speaking of Abraham, who was sitting while the Shechinah (divine presence) was standing. Rabbi...

www.sefaria.org

Then we have John Gill, in his commentary:

“Galatinus says the true Targum of Jonathan has it,

"the Lord said to his Word;''

Adam Clarke, in his commentary says, of verse one;

“Said unto my Lord. Instead of לאדני ladoni, “my Lord,” one MS. seems to have read ליהוה layhovah, “Jehovah said unto Jehovah, ‘Sit thou on my right hand,’” etc. See De Rossi”

Here we have a Hebrew manuscript that has TWO distinct Persons Who are called Yahweh.

In verse 5 we read;

“The Lord at thy right hand crushes kings on the day of His wrath”

The “Lord” here, is the same LORD Who is at the Right-Hand of “Yahweh” in verse 1. In this verse, we have, not “´ádönay”, as in verse 1, but, “´ádönäy”, which is almost every time used in the Old Testament, for Almighty God.

There is very strong textual evidence, that in verse 5, in about 20 Hebrew manuscripts, it does not read “´ádönäy”, but “Yahweh”. “Yahweh at Your Right Hand”. The single Hebrew manuscript mentioned by Adam Clarke, for verse 1 reading, “Yahweh said to Yahweh”, is confirmed by this reading in verse 5.

Some, like Allen P Ross, in his commentary, assume that in this verse, God changes places with the king, and is now at the human king’s “right hand”!

Such is the desperation shown by some, who cannot accept the plain facts of the Teaching in Scripture, that there is more than One Person in the Old Testament, Who are clearly called Yahweh.

All of the “objections” that have been used to try to “prove”, that the second “Lord” in verse 1, does not refer to a Person Who is Himself Almighty God, are proven to be completely false! Together with verse 5, and the rest of this Psalm, there is no doubt that The Messiah in this Psalm, and the entire Bible, is Yahweh.

In the Gospels, Jesus Christ uses the words in verse 1 to show that He is the LORD at the Right Hand of Yahweh, and is Himself Yahweh! (Matthew 22:41-46; Mark 12:35-37; Luke 20:41-44)

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings SolaScriptura,

To sit at the Right Hand of God, cannot be for any human person. It is clear from this whole Psalm, that the “´ádönay” of verse 1 is an equal to Yahweh.

I appreciate your thorough treatment of this subject. Two problems in the above. Firstly I consider that Jesus is a human, now changed to an immortal body and he has been exalted to now be seated at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne Psalm 110:1, Revelation 3:21-22. Secondly, in the above you state that the Hebrew word for the "Lord" of verse 1 is "adonay", but earlier you quoted the folowing to state that the Hebrew word is "adoni":

“I should note that the second “lord” in Hebrew is not “ado-nai” – the term the Torah reserves for God, but “adoni”.

In verse 5 we read;
“The Lord at thy right hand crushes kings on the day of His wrath”
The “Lord” here, is the same LORD Who is at the Right-Hand of “Yahweh” in verse 1. In this verse, we have, not “´ádönay”, as in verse 1, but, “´ádönäy”, which is almost every time used in the Old Testament, for Almighty God.
There is very strong textual evidence, that in verse 5, in about 20 Hebrew manuscripts, it does not read “´ádönäy”, but “Yahweh”. “Yahweh at Your Right Hand”.

I am more than willing to accept "Yahweh" for verse 5. The concept of the "right hand" in verse 1 is different to that in verse 5. Verse 1 is speaking of where Jesus is seated, the other is speaking of Power to accomplish. When Jesus goes forth to conquer his enemies, the One God, Yahweh, God the Father will be with Jesus, He will be at Jesus' right hand, to accomplish the task set by Yahweh, God the Father.

Consider the following comments and Note 16 from Derek Kidner (who is a Trinitarian):
Now the Lord (i.e. Yahweh) and his King act as one (see Note 16), and the army of volunteers which was seen in verse 3 is no longer in the picture. The battle is the Lord’s, yet he and his King are so united that by verse 7 it is clearly the human partner who is in the foreground. 1

Note 16: There is no need to seek consistency between Yahweh’s ‘right hand’ in verse 1 and the King’s in verse 5. The scene has changed from throne to battlefield, to present this new aspect of the partnership. 1

1 Kidner, D. (1975). Psalms 73–150: An Introduction and Commentary IVP.

Thus your final summation is not correct.

All of the “objections” that have been used to try to “prove”, that the second “Lord” in verse 1, does not refer to a Person Who is Himself Almighty God, are proven to be completely false! Together with verse 5, and the rest of this Psalm, there is no doubt that The Messiah in this Psalm, and the entire Bible, is Yahweh.

Yahweh is the One God, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted, sitting at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne and He is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor.

 

[JLB]

Psalm 110:1 – “nü´ùm Yehôvâh lA´dönî”

A very important verse, and Psalm.

In the greater majority of English Versions, we have as in the King James Bible, “The LORD said unto my Lord”.

In some Versions, like the 2011 New International, Good News, English Standard Version, New American Bible, NET and New Revised Standard Version, have adopted the reading:

“The LORD said to my lord”

In the 1984 edition of the New International, this verse reads: “The Lord says to my Lord”

Versions before the King James, Myles Coverdale, 1535, “The LORDE sayde vnto my LORDE”, Bishops, 1558, “God sayd vnto my Lorde”, and Geneva, 1587, “The Lord said vnto my Lorde”.

Interestingly, the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, reads:

“The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is” (1984)

And, in their 2013 edition, “Jehovah declared to my Lord”

The Greek Old Testament (LXX), reads: “ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου” (Rahlfs’)

However, in the Greek Old Testament translated in the 2nd century AD, by the Jewish scholar, Symmachus, it reads; “ὁ κύριος τῷ δεσπότη μου”. Where “δεσπότη”, is generally “master”.

A Jewish website run by a Rabbi, has this to say on this verse:

“I should note that the second “lord” in Hebrew is not “ado-nai” – the term the Torah reserves for God, but “adoni”. The latter is a simple Hebrew word which means “my lord” but is not sacred. Throughout the Torah that word is used in reference to honored human beings but never to God, e.g. Genesis 18:3, 23:6, 24:18, 31:35, 33:8, 34:14, 44:18, etc. Thus, it was incorrectly capitalized in your translation. In fact, Hebrew has no capital letters so capitalizations which are found in English translations are merely based on translators’ assumptions, and as you can see, are not always reliable.”

(Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld; https://www.aish.com/atr/Psalm-110-Two-Lords.html)

Firstly, we have the statement, that “adoni”, is use to honor men, and never God. This is misleading, and false. “adoni”, is from the root, “´ädön”

In at least THREE places in the Torah, this very word is used for YHWH.

"Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord GOD (hä´ädön Yah·weh Exo 23:17)

"Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel (hä´ädön Yah·weh ´élöhê yiSrä´ël. (Exo 34:23)”

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God (Yah·weh´élö hêkem hû´ ´élöhê hä´élöhîm wa´ádönê hä´ádönîm), mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. (Deu 10:17)”

Secondly. there are also a number of other places, especially in the Psalms, where “´ädön”, is used for YHWH:

"Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth, (´ádôn kāl hā·’ā·reṣ)” (Jos 3:11)” . And verse 13

“Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord (Yah·weh ’ă·ḏō·nê·nū), and His ordinances and His statutes” (Nehemiah 10:29)

“O LORD, our Lord (Yah·weh ’ă·ḏō·nê·nū), How excellent is Your name in all the earth, Who have set Your glory above the heavens!” (Psalm 8:1). And verse 9

“The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the LORD (Yah·weh), At the presence of the Lord (’ă·ḏō·wn) of the whole earth” (Psalm 97:5)

“Tremble, O earth, at the presence of the Lord (’ă·ḏō·wn), At the presence of the God (’ĕ·lō·w·ah) of Jacob” (Psalm 114:7)

“Oh, give thanks to the Lord (la·’ă·ḏō·nê) of lords (hā·’ă·ḏō·nîm)! For His mercy endures forever” (Psalm 136:3)

“Therefore the Lord (hā·’ā·ḏō·wn) says, The LORD of hosts (Yah·weh ṣə·ḇā·’ō·wṯ), the Mighty One of Israel” (Isaiah 1:24)

“Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord (hā·’ā·ḏō·wn), whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the Covenant (ū·mal·’aḵ hab·bə·rîṯ) In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the LORD of hosts (Yah·weh ṣə·ḇā·’ō·wṯ)” (Malachi 3:1)

Thirdly, it makes no difference, if the text reads, “my Lord”, or, “your Lord”, or “the Lord”, or “our Lord”, as the root Hebrew word used in these, and other passages, when referring to YHWH, is clearly, “´ädön”. The same word is also used for humans, but not exclusively as some wrongly suggest, which is for theological reasons.

Fourthly, it is not correct to say that “ado-nai”, is used only for God.

In Genesis 19:2, Lot says to the 2 angels, “And he said, "Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant's house and spend the night”. Where “my lords” is the Hebrew, “´ádönay”. In verse 18 we read, “Then Lot said to them, "Please, no, my lords!”, here the Hebrew is, “´ádönäy”, similar, but different. This is the word that is supposed to be reserved for God only.

In Ezra 10:3, we have, “"Now therefore, let us make a covenant with our God to put away all these wives and those who have been born to them, according to the advice of my master”. This refers to the advice Ezra gives in the previous chapter. Here “my master” is the Hebrew, “´ádönäy”, which is also used for a human.

Clear evidence that “´ádönäy” is not only used for Almighty God.

There is some speculation, that “´ádönay” in verse 1, is a human person, such as Abraham, or some king. This is not possible from the context in which it is used, especially with the words that follow, “Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”.

To sit at the Right Hand of God, cannot be for any human person. It is clear from this whole Psalm, that the “´ádönay” of verse 1 is an equal to Yahweh.

In the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD, leading Jewish scholars taught that “´ádönay” refers to the Messiah.

“Rabbi Yudan said in the name of Rabbi Hama, "In the future, the Holy One, blessed be He, will seat the Messiah King at His right hand, as it says, 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand"' (Psalm 110:1)”

Midrash Tehillim 18:29

"Say another thing and give me the shield of your salvation." Speaking of Abraham, who was sitting while the Shechinah (divine presence) was standing. Rabbi...

www.sefaria.org

Then we have John Gill, in his commentary:

“Galatinus says the true Targum of Jonathan has it,

"the Lord said to his Word;''

Adam Clarke, in his commentary says, of verse one;

“Said unto my Lord. Instead of לאדני ladoni, “my Lord,” one MS. seems to have read ליהוה layhovah, “Jehovah said unto Jehovah, ‘Sit thou on my right hand,’” etc. See De Rossi”

Here we have a Hebrew manuscript that has TWO distinct Persons Who are called Yahweh.

In verse 5 we read;

“The Lord at thy right hand crushes kings on the day of His wrath”

The “Lord” here, is the same LORD Who is at the Right-Hand of “Yahweh” in verse 1. In this verse, we have, not “´ádönay”, as in verse 1, but, “´ádönäy”, which is almost every time used in the Old Testament, for Almighty God.

There is very strong textual evidence, that in verse 5, in about 20 Hebrew manuscripts, it does not read “´ádönäy”, but “Yahweh”. “Yahweh at Your Right Hand”. The single Hebrew manuscript mentioned by Adam Clarke, for verse 1 reading, “Yahweh said to Yahweh”, is confirmed by this reading in verse 5.

Some, like Allen P Ross, in his commentary, assume that in this verse, God changes places with the king, and is now at the human king’s “right hand”!

Such is the desperation shown by some, who cannot accept the plain facts of the Teaching in Scripture, that there is more than One Person in the Old Testament, Who are clearly called Yahweh.

All of the “objections” that have been used to try to “prove”, that the second “Lord” in verse 1, does not refer to a Person Who is Himself Almighty God, are proven to be completely false! Together with verse 5, and the rest of this Psalm, there is no doubt that The Messiah in this Psalm, and the entire Bible, is Yahweh.

In the Gospels, Jesus Christ uses the words in verse 1 to show that He is the LORD at the Right Hand of Yahweh, and is Himself Yahweh! (Matthew 22:41-46; Mark 12:35-37; Luke 20:41-44)

What is your point?

 

[SolaScriptura]

What is your point?

self explanatory

 

[JLB]

Yahweh is the One God, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted, sitting at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne and He is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Jesus was the only begotten of the Father before creation.


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


Jesus Christ the Son created all things.

• For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth

• He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

JLB

 

[JLB]

self explanatory

There is no point being made in your post.

It’s mostly commentary references to other men’s writings.

What is the point of your post?

Here is an example of a point being made with scripture:


Jesus Christ is YHWH the LORD God who spoke through the prophets.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11


Here’s an example of The Spirit of Jesus Christ speaking through an Old Testament prophet:


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10




JLB

 

[SolaScriptura]

There is no point being made in your post.

It’s mostly commentary references to other men’s writings.

What is the point of your post?

Here is an example of a point being made with scripture:


Jesus Christ is YHWH the LORD God who spoke through the prophets.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11




JLB

The OP is MY OWN work!

I have linked to a couple of websites for reference.

If YOU don't like the OP, then you are free not to read it and move on!

It is clear from your own remarks elsewhere, that you don't know/understand the Hebrew language!

 

[SolaScriptura]

Jesus was the only begotten of the Father before creation

UNBIBLICAL!

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings SolaScriptura,

I appreciate your thorough treatment of this subject. Two problems in the above. Firstly I consider that Jesus is a human, now changed to an immortal body and he has been exalted to now be seated at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne Psalm 110:1, Revelation 3:21-22. Secondly, in the above you state that the Hebrew word for the "Lord" of verse 1 is "adonay", but earlier you quoted the folowing to state that the Hebrew word is "adoni":


I am more than willing to accept "Yahweh" for verse 5. The concept of the "right hand" in verse 1 is different to that in verse 5. Verse 1 is speaking of where Jesus is seated, the other is speaking of Power to accomplish. When Jesus goes forth to conquer his enemies, the One God, Yahweh, God the Father will be with Jesus, He will be at Jesus' right hand, to accomplish the task set by Yahweh, God the Father.

Consider the following comments and Note 16 from Derek Kidner (who is a Trinitarian):
Now the Lord (i.e. Yahweh) and his King act as one (see Note 16), and the army of volunteers which was seen in verse 3 is no longer in the picture. The battle is the Lord’s, yet he and his King are so united that by verse 7 it is clearly the human partner who is in the foreground. 1

Note 16: There is no need to seek consistency between Yahweh’s ‘right hand’ in verse 1 and the King’s in verse 5. The scene has changed from throne to battlefield, to present this new aspect of the partnership. 1

1 Kidner, D. (1975). Psalms 73–150: An Introduction and Commentary IVP.

Thus your final summation is not correct.

Yahweh is the One God, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted, sitting at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne and He is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor.

Hi Trevor

Thanks for taking the time for your detailed response

In the simple unsuffixed form or when pointed, is either ´ádön or “´ádönay”

The Jews did not like to try and pronounce the Divine Name, YHWH, so they substituted it with "´ádönäy", in many places. Note the difference.

I have shown beyond any doubt, that the second "Lord" in verse 1, is from the root, ´ádön, which is used a number of times for Yahweh, in various forms

There is no reason so understand that "Right Hand", in verse 5, means different to the exact same use in verse 1, other than theological. Because the "Lord" (´ádönay), is referred to as either ´ádönäy, or as in some Hebrew manuscripts, as Yahweh, it has caused some a big problem, as it has yourself. By accepting, that the "Lord" in verse 5, is the same "Lord" in verse 1, shows that BOTH "Yahweh and ´ádönay" in verse 1, and in fact YHWH. This is what the Bible Teaches, theology aside.

 

[Randy]

UNBIBLICAL!

John 1:18

Its orthodox. Though how one can be begotten or born or from another as a "Son" with a Father but have no beginning point isn't really explained in any reasonable manner.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

 

[JLB]

The OP is MY OWN work!

I have linked to a couple of websites for reference.

If YOU don't like the OP, then you are free not to read it and move on!

It is clear from your own remarks elsewhere, that you don't know/understand the Hebrew language!

It has nothing to do with like or dislike.

I simply asked you what your point was.

If you don’t know then so be it.




JLB

 

[SolaScriptura]

John 1:18

Its orthodox. Though how one can be begotten or born or from another as a "Son" with a Father but have no beginning point isn't really explained in any reasonable manner.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

The English Versions that read, "only begotten" are very much wrong, as this is NOT what the Greek means

The Greek adjective, μονογενής, is from μόνος and γένος, literally, "of a single kind, or UNIQUE".

If John wanted to say that Jesus Christ is "only-generated (begotten", from the Father, then he would have used the right Greek word for this, which is, μονογέννητος.

The older English Versions, like the KJV, were strongly influenced by the Latin Vulgate of Jerome, who uses unigenitus. This is due to the controversy at the time with the spread of Arius' heretical Christology, when the Orthodox Church fathers responded, in their mind, theologically, but not according to what the Bible itself teaches. The Old Latin used, unicus, from where we get our English, "unique".

The creed that you quote from, is unbiblical and heretical, as it is based on the creed of Eusebius, whose own theology was very much that of Arius!

The Original reading of John 1:18, is, "θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε ὁ μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο", literally in English: "God no one has seen at any time the Unique God who is continually in closest Relationship with the Father, He has revealed Him". Notice in this verse that the two uses θεὸς, and without the article in the Greek, which means that they have equal meaning. God the Father. God the Son.

 

[SolaScriptura]

It has nothing to do with like or dislike.

I simply asked you what your point was.

If you don’t know then so be it.




JLB

have you some problem here? The OP is a very detailed study on a very important passage of Scripture, which has been misunderstood and misused by some. Not many commentaries have gone as deep as I have in the OP

 

[JLB]

UNBIBLICAL!

I stated my point with scripture.

Here it is again —

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


Jesus Christ the Son created all things.

• For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth
• He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Do you agree with this scripture?




JLB

 

[JLB]

have you some problem here? The OP is a very detailed study on a very important passage of Scripture, which has been misunderstood and misused by some. Not many commentaries have gone as deep as I have in the OP

I asked you what your point was.

I simply dont know from what you wrote.




JLB

 

[SolaScriptura]

I stated my point with scripture.

Here it is again —

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


Jesus Christ the Son created all things.

• For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth
• He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Do you agree with this scripture?




JLB

read #12

 

[Randy]

The English Versions that read, "only begotten" are very much wrong, as this is NOT what the Greek means

The Greek adjective, μονογενής, is from μόνος and γένος, literally, "of a single kind, or UNIQUE".

If John wanted to say that Jesus Christ is "only-generated (begotten", from the Father, then he would have used the right Greek word for this, which is, μονογέννητος.

The older English Versions, like the KJV, were strongly influenced by the Latin Vulgate of Jerome, who uses unigenitus. This is due to the controversy at the time with the spread of Arius' heretical Christology, when the Orthodox Church fathers responded, in their mind, theologically, but not according to what the Bible itself teaches. The Old Latin used, unicus, from where we get our English, "unique".

The creed that you quote from, is unbiblical and heretical, as it is based on the creed of Eusebius, whose own theology was very much that of Arius!

The Original reading of John 1:18, is, "θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε ὁ μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο", literally in English: "God no one has seen at any time the Unique God who is continually in closest Relationship with the Father, He has revealed Him". Notice in this verse that the two uses θεὸς, and without the article in the Greek, which means that they have equal meaning. God the Father. God the Son.

John 1:18 Greek Text Analysis

The only begotten God or the only begotten Son?

Should John 1:18 read "the only begotten God"?

I was reading my New King James version of the Bible and found a footnote for this verse: John 1:18 (NKJV) No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[a] who is in the bosom of the

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

Creed as stated here.

Nicene Creed

Ibelieve in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only ...

www.usccb.org

Jesus calls the one on the throne in heaven His God and His Father. He is a Son.

 

[SolaScriptura]

John 1:18 Greek Text Analysis

The only begotten God or the only begotten Son?

Should John 1:18 read "the only begotten God"?

I was reading my New King James version of the Bible and found a footnote for this verse: John 1:18 (NKJV) No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[a] who is in the bosom of the

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

Creed as stated here.

Nicene Creed

Ibelieve in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only ...

www.usccb.org

Jesus calls the one on the throne in heaven His God and His Father. He is a Son.

if you are going to say that what I have written is wrong, I expect that you provide your own response, rather than sharing someone else' link. Nothing that I have written can be disproved from the Greek, by anyone, as I am 100% confident in what I have written to be factual Greek.

It is very clear from the reading of the greater majority of English Versions, that God the Father Addresses Jesus Christ directly as GOD, in Hebrews 1:8, 9, "πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος...ὁ Θεός, ὁ Θεός σου". Again, if honesty is used in what is written here, it is very clear that the English reads, "But concerning the Son, Your Throne O God is forever and ever...O God, Your God". As in John 20:28 (Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου), we have instances in Greek grammar, where, the nominative case is used as vocative, in address.

Also, in verses 10-12 of Hebrews 1, the Father Addresses Jesus Christ as LORD (equal to YHWH), and says that He is the actual Creator of the entire universe. the fact that the Father uses Psalm 102:4-27 here, for Jesus Christ, is conclusive to any honest person, that the Father knows Jesus Christ is ALMIGHTY GOD!

Also note in Hebrews 1:6, that Father COMMANDS the WORSHIP of Jesus Christ. something impossible if Jesus Christ is less than YHWH!

 

[SolaScriptura]

John 1:18 Greek Text Analysis

The only begotten God or the only begotten Son?

Should John 1:18 read "the only begotten God"?

I was reading my New King James version of the Bible and found a footnote for this verse: John 1:18 (NKJV) No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[a] who is in the bosom of the

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

Creed as stated here.

Nicene Creed

Ibelieve in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only ...

www.usccb.org

Jesus calls the one on the throne in heaven His God and His Father. He is a Son.

the Nicene Creed is Biblically WRONG in places. Regardless of who put it together.

 

[Randy]

the Nicene Creed is Biblically WRONG in places. Regardless of who put it together.

So its the creed you disagree with? As I stated it as orthodox.
If Jesus is not from the Father than whose Son is He?