public schools

[Caroline H]

What an excellent post Works4Him! I agree with every point you have made. As I was reading this thread there have been some things I agree with and some that I don't. You're absolutely right that there is no "cookie-cutter" way to teach children, and it really does depend upon the child and the parent as to what is best for the child.

I also know many homeschooled people who are at the top of their class. Actually, all of the ones I know are They also, more so than those who went to public or private, are very secure in who they are and aren't prone to being swayed by peer pressure. I think (and this is just my opinion based on my experiences) that public and private school environments naturally enhance the "go with the crowd" mentality...sometimes it is damaging, and sometimes it isn't. That would depend upon what sort of school it is.

My parents, along with two other families in our church, decided to homeschool their children in the early 80's. Back then it was not a well-known practice and many people just didn't understand what it really meant. They said that parent's weren't qualified to teach their kids because they weren't "teachers", and that the children would suffer socially, etc.... But after they had their say, they observed that over the years the children who were homeschooled were thriving. They weren't lacking in anything, socially or educationally, and they were happy. My own family didn't do it very long because in '86 my parents became missionaries and we went to England. We were put in the school system there and it was fine for the most part. But when my parents shared with their English friends about their experience with homeshcooling in America, they were met with the same skeptic remarks and disdain with the whole idea as in the States. I think that mainly, it was because it was not understood. Nowadays in America there is a huge support system for homeschooling that wasn't there when my family and the others were doing it. And really, I think that it is much more popular in America than other countries, and so I'm not surprised when people balk at it.

I don't look down upon parents who choose to put their children in public or private school. I think that the most important thing is that parents listen to the Lord on this issue, and do what they believe He is leading them to do. Every child is different, of course, and so every approach should be tailored to that child. Pray about it and do what God want's you to do. But please don't judge people harshly for not doing what YOU think is right.

 

[paisley]

"what's your opinion on charter schools."

I don`t have direct experience with a charter school so it is a little difficult for me to say anything with certainty. I would need to research the subject much more. But I have a few general thoughts. I think some are going to be a step up from the average public school especially those that target learning towards a specific group of children (accelerated math and science, those with ADD or special needs, etc.) From what I`ve read, the children in charter schools generally do better than in public schools. Unfortunately that makes the public schools jealous because it draws their potential students away thus funding goes in another direction. I think that tells a lot about the heart of the public school though when children are excelling in a different learning environment but the public school doesn`t care. All they care about is the money. That is sad! I`ve even heard teachers talk about hating homeschool and charter schools because they see it as a threat to their job security, not a threat to the child`s well being!!!

I got a little off subject, sorry. Back to my opinion of charter schools. The thing I would be concerned about with charter schools is they are still government controlled. Charter schools as I understand it were created by the government as an answer to the exodus of home and private schoolers. These the government can`t control what they learn so charter schools were created to give parents an alternative but still keep them under the government control. Therefore government social ideologies that may go against Christian principals can still be imposed on our children in a charter school. This would be my primary concern about a charter school but I think really it depends on the area one lives in and the administration as to how much of a concern that should be.


Finally, my sister has taught in a charter school and the government seems to give public schools an unfair advangtage. Both schools are government funded schools BUT the teachers are not treated equally. Public schools the teachers get tenure, much better pay and benefits. The charter schools the teachers work on a year to year contract basis and are told they can be fired for any reason. So even though the charter school my sister worked at was very nice, the staff turnover rate was high and experienced teachers were low. Nevertheless, with that disadvantage it still seems like charter schools do better than public schools.

If my only choice was a charter school or a public school, I would seriously lean towards a charter school but I think it would need to be investigated first to make sure it was the best match for my child. I would say the same for a Christian school too. And if we homeschool, we need to continually evaluate ourselves. If mentally we are struggling as Andrea Yates was, then there should be nothing wrong with a parent taking a break from homeschooling for the benefit of everyone. I don`t think we can take the education and care of our children for granted. We have to stay involved and aware without being overbearing or getting overly stressed.

 

[lovely]

We decided to home educate our children when our oldest son was an infant. Initially, we chose a classical approach, which is actually very popular with home educators, and promotes critical thinking, but by the time he was seven we really were just able to rest in Christ and be led by the Holy Spirit to show us what our children need for the guidance of the whole person. Our main goal has always been to disciple them for Christ, and to train them in the fear and admonition of the Lord, and the Lord has blessed that effort. We also felt that we did not want a 'school' in our home, but that we wanted to encourage life long learning by giving our children a taste for books (especially the Bible), for working hard, for exploring and observing, for just studying the things of God's world, and God's word. We also want them to have the gift of discernment, so that they can filter all information in the light of God's Truth, and so we look to God for help to meet what is our greatest challenge.

My husband moved us from the city to a farm so that the children could raise animals, garden, work hard, begin businesses, and do projects that held their interest freely. He also felt that it was important for the children to spend their energy (especially those active boys) by being very active, being productive and creative, and sharing time with neighbors, family, and friends that promoted servant-heartedness and hands on educational knowledge. It turns out that we have an active girl too. ;) Our family, friends, and neighbors have supported us in many ways, by answering letters from the children, asking them to help when work needs to be done, and by just sharing their experiences, views, and lives with them. This life has gone far beyond our expectations, and has been a blessing from the Lord for our whole family, and for our children.

The public schools are actually the new thing, not home education. Vocational training and education were at one time mainly in the hands of parents, apprenticeships, and the church. I am not saying that the old way was perfect, but the state public schools are far from a good and perfect method. When my son was an infant, the St. Louis Public School system was in danger of loosing it's accreditation, and the money that they were given was being mishandled. The crime in St. Louis was at an all time high, and many children couldn't read. As a parent, I am beyond qualified to teach my children, it is a mandate for me to teach/train them by God along with being a person who studies to show myself approved unto God. I think that people, even believers, put very little weight on the fact that God has entrusted us to be stewards over the children He has placed in our families. I work hard at teaching them, because I love God and them. The things that are beyond me, I learn, and when I am at my limit I seek out help from other brothers and sisters who are more gifted, and willing, to show our family. God has networked some very neat things this way for us. Our goal is to bring glory to God and trust Him, not in a method of public, private, or home schooling curriculum. The Lord had been the one to help us set the pace for our children through Michael's wisdom and desire to please God, and that is the best place to be. The public school system does not dictate the standard, the private church school doesn't, and neither do the home school groups and speakers, but their dad who is looking to God for direction does. So far, God has blessed our children in this area academically, spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

As far as the socializing issue, I am not sure why that's an issue at all when speaking about home education. My children have relationships with people of all ages that they see on a regular basis in a real life setting. The school is what has been set up as a false environment. In reality, we deal with people of may different ages and experiences daily, and the only way we can really know them, and have relationships with them, is by living and working together. False school settings do not teach children to serve and relate to others different from themselves, but rather they promote conformity to the culture and it's trends as well as false teachings. Children follow examples, and when placed in a room full of peers, they follow their own folly. Eight year olds act like eight year olds, and there is no preparation for manhood or womanhood. When placed in a room with a teacher that is given over to false religion and philosophy, they aren't learning to question, or to think, but to follow the views of the person who is discipling them for eight hours apart from God's Word, and the views the curriculum promotes. The system says that man's ways are neutral, but as believers we should know that nothing is neutral. Socializing is when we go into homes as a family and help others and learn about their lives. That's when we grow and learn to love and serve others. We have a proper learning environment when parents are investing time and resources into the lives of their children. This is discipleship, a model that is based on a loving relationship and an intimate knowledge of the needs of the whole person. Learning is far more than academics.



Just my thoughts, the Lord bless all of you.

 

[lovely]

I just thought of one last thing. When we talk about parents teaching children what we want them to know, I do not see anything wrong with that at all. I am surprised that people are saying otherwise, to be honest. God tells us to teach and train our children with our lives. You know the saying, 'children learn what they live', I think it's true. Jesus was an example, and He obeyed the Father before us and for us, and He taught us His absolute Truth...speaking only the doctrine of the Father. We should be like this as parents. When information is a lie, we should teach our children it's a lie, and we should tell them how we came to that conclusion by giving them the truth. Information is not neutral. Teaching my children to think, or to ask questions, is not to teach them to fall for lies or live in rebellion for the sake of experience, but rather to promote a love of learning in the Light of God's truth. The default is that they will sin, and they will fall, but the work of it is to instill the Truth that will help them stand and keep to the Way. If I want my children to walk in faith, and in the truth, then I live it and teach them to do it. I help them over the pitfalls of deceit with truth, and the hurtles of the flesh with a fear of God. I think if we are honest, all parents are teaching their children what they want them to know. The question is, what are we teaching?

 

[Nick]

I just thought of one last thing. When we talk about parents teaching children what we want them to know, I do not see anything wrong with that at all. I am surprised that people are saying otherwise, to be honest. God tells us to teach and train our children with our lives. You know the saying, 'children learn what they live', I think it's true. Jesus was an example, and He obeyed the Father before us and for us, and He taught us His absolute Truth...speaking only the doctrine of the Father. We should be like this as parents. When information is a lie, we should teach our children it's a lie, and we should tell them how we came to that conclusion by giving them the truth. Information is not neutral. Teaching my children to think, or to ask questions, is not to teach them to fall for lies or live in rebellion for the sake of experience, but rather to promote a love of learning in the Light of God's truth. The default is that they will sin, and they will fall, but the work of it is to instill the Truth that will help them stand and keep to the Way. If I want my children to walk in faith, and in the truth, then I live it and teach them to do it. I help them over the pitfalls of deceit with truth, and the hurtles of the flesh with a fear of God. I think if we are honest, all parents are teaching their children what they want them to know. The question is, what are we teaching?

They need to develop critical thinking for themselves. They'll come into the real world sooner or later and you won't be able to protect them. Let's expose them to the real world eariler (like in public schools) so they can do so in a more safe evnironment like a school, and with you along beside them.
This is not to say that you can't teach them what you want, but it is saying that don't only teach them what you want.

 

[jasoncran]

I believe that decision should be up to the parent, those not familiar with the St.louis,MO area dont know that is had a high crime rate and it may be simply safer to homeschool, think columbine,virginia tech, etc. If your local public school in a bad area with problems with crime,and has metal detectors,gun carrying law endorcement.Would you send your kid there if you can avoid doing so.

In america unfortunately many schools are more like prisons than schools. A little known fact the high school grades k-12, the way its done today is only 60 yrs old in america,and was thought up to deal with rapidly growing boomer generation,the earlier method was like the old church house(still used as a church) in Little house on the Prarie.

Jason

 

[Mark62]

I believe that decision should be up to the parent, those not familiar with the St.louis,MO area dont know that is had a high crime rate and it may be simply safer to homeschool, think columbine,virginia tech, etc. If your local public school in a bad area with problems with crime,and has metal detectors,gun carrying law endorcement.Would you send your kid there if you can avoid doing so.

In america unfortunately many schools are more like prisons than schools. A little known fact the high school grades k-12, the way its done today is only 60 yrs old in america,and was thought up to deal with rapidly growing boomer generation,the earlier method was like the old church house(still used as a church) in Little house on the Prarie.

Jason

I agree that any decision as where to schoool your children is ultimately the parent's.

Maybe though the problem in US schools isn't a problem itself but rather a symptom of wider issues. Columbine & Virgina Tech etc would not have happened without one ingredient: Guns.

I understand from someone I know on this forum that this is a pretty hot topic. As we watch the news from Sydney as see these images, pretty much all of Australia is screaming "Why can't Americans see the cause/effect relationship: unfettered access to guns = massacres." Just a thought from someone looking into the bubble.

Oh by the way, we have a skills shortage in Australia, a good public schools system and universal healthcare. Move here!!! :shades

(sorry to steer your forum somewhere else Jason)

 

[jasoncran]

Guns dont' kill people by themselves, people do Have u read the post on making knives illegal, there are some in the churches in America who say the aethisitc world view taught to kids enforces the violences against each other, ie evoloution teaches that we humans are advanced animal not a creation of god, and when kids act like that teaching those same people ask why, duh you taught them that. I see that view up to a certain extent, but the parents of those kids could be the cause of that too,or maybe not,sometimes a person is a rotten egg (we all are) until Jesus changes them.

 

[paisley]

I agree with Jason that the problem isn`t guns. More people were killed in the Rwandan Christian genocide with MACHETES than the atomic bomb. Over 1/2 a MILLION people were killed with these knives and people in Africa are still being killed with farm tools like hoes. If you take away guns and knives, people will grab tools, if you take that away people will grab recreational equipment like bats, if you take that way they may use ropes, if you take everything away, people still have thier hands. People that are going to kill are going to kill. The gun laws in America are at their toughest. When there were no or little gun laws America did not have the problems it has now. The problem is in the heart of man and a messed up society. The social fabric and family foundation in America is torn apart so violence is the result. The way to stop the violence is to mend the family structure back together and turn hearts back to God. So I would say ""Why can't Americans see the cause/effect relationship: broken homes=broken society which can lead to massacres". I think if we get our homes in order, then schools/government/churches/society will reflect the home. The Godly home is the MOST important key to a safe and successful society.

 

[Nick]

the guns aren't bad in themselves, but it's what people do with them. Let's face it: you wouldn't have these problems without guns. It's a no brainer really.



But please, totopic. The topic of guns can be discussed elsewhere.

 

[lovely]

They need to develop critical thinking for themselves. They'll come into the real world sooner or later and you won't be able to protect them. Let's expose them to the real world eariler (like in public schools) so they can do so in a more safe evnironment like a school, and with you along beside them. This is not to say that you can't teach them what you want, but it is saying that don't only teach them what you want.

Nick,

Thanks for your reply. I'm actually advocating a good foundation in truth, not teaching them only what I want them to know. As believing parents, we should have the sense to not allow our children to be discipled by people, systems, and curriculums that are intent on drawing deceitful conclusions for them. As I said, information is not neutral, and the Word of God has given the parents the responsibility of training, sharpening, and arming children to resist the evil one and practice God's laws of Love in a dark world. As far as 'real world' experiences, that's not found in school at all, and I can say that as a person who walked into 'prison' school daily, with the exception of a couple of years spent in private. When I was in high school, stabbings and shootings were pretty common, chains on the doors were needed, and metal detectors were common place, and those shootings weren't making the news so much being down in the 3rd district on the states streets. Those children, who live in that place, think it's the 'real world' and they look at people who are not living a drug infested and hard abusive life as if they are unrealistic. What is real? God is real, and the truth that He shows us is real. A world with Him in it is the 'real world'.

I have been called out of that filth, and deliberately putting my children in it to gain some false sense of 'exposure' is not an option. Btw, the teaching was man-centered and just as filthy as the environment. I have been called to be set apart, and so have my children, and so why would we seek after the world's ways, or one of the many different versions of the 'real world' that the deceiver projects through men, to try to gain a better education? It doesn't make sense. Why is worldliness what's real? Why would I aspire, as a believing parent, to have my children trained by anyone other than the Lord's people? I am not a dog bent on returning to her own vomit. Exposure just happens daily where ever you are (According to God's planning and timing), especially when you are in the community, working with others in business, dealing with personal trials and tragedy, and facing temptation, and so there's really no need to set up a false environment...God allows trials for our good, and I trust Him to do this for my children as HE sees fit. I am not sure why you think that the public system is somehow going to prepare them, sharpen them, arm them, etc. better than walking in the real world beside their believing father who is already a mighty warrior for God...who was also called out of a life of filth, even by the world's standards. The thing is, we are right there with them daily living out our faith and trying to apply the Lord's principals as best we can for better or worse. The discipleship approach is really the pattern I see in Scripture when we talk about teaching, and imparting knowledge, not a man-made public school system. (Jesus, our teacher, disciples us, and it stands to reason that we should do the same.) I don't want people, like those described in Jeremiah 6, mentoring God's children that HE has entrusted me to train and raise....they are not 'reprobate silver'.

Sorry, I am in a hurry and I do not have a lot of time to edit...I tend to be repetitive, and so I am sorry if that happned in my post. The Lord bless you.

 

[jasoncran]

Thank you lovely, i was trying to say some of that,but some of them weren't being stubborn or hard just wasn't able to see that point. Jason

 

[Caroline H]

Lovely, I read your two previous posts yesterday evening and meant to tell you what a blessing your words are to me sometimes...I got busy with dinner and forgot to tell you that. You have such a way of saying exactly what I'm thinking sometimes!