Question about Infallibility

[Alfred Persson]

Please don't declare this an impossible hypothetical. Entertain for a moment it could happen:

Its the End Time and the False Christ appears in the form of "the man of sin", a man who condones all sorts of sin while working Christ-like miracles:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. (2 Thess. 2:3-4 DRA)

As the Church is the Temple of God this text says the "Man of Sin" False Christ will appear during a time of revolt against God, and in the Church he will be revealed.

If the pope declared the "man of sin" is "the Christ", could an individual Catholic who realized from reading Holy Scripture that couldn't be, refuse to follow him?

Can he reject the pope for Scripture?

I know Catholics do disagree with their pope on many things, especially the present pope. Is it possible a Catholic can disagree with the pope about the appearance of a miracle worker who claims to be Christ?

Or will they choose to follow their conscience, educated by the Bible?

This is not a Protestant versus Catholic question, I am convinced Protestant Churches have already revolted enough against God's Word they will receive the "man of sin" as Christ. He will be "woke" and very accepting of the LBFPQ...XYZ community, no matter the perversion.

 

[JLB]

As the Church is the Temple of God this text says the "Man of Sin" False Christ will appear during a time of revolt against God, and in the Church he will be revealed.

The Church is indeed the Temple of God, however that doesn’t dismiss there being a literal Temple in Jerusalem.


Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

• so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The antichrist will reveal himself as the messiah, to the unbelieving Jews who are waiting for him, which is why they are wanting to build a new temple in Jerusalem.


The antichrist is a man, and is not omnipresent, being able to “sit” in the universal body of Christ throughout the world.


https://m.jpost.com/tags/third-temple

The Third Temple refers to a hypothetical rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, which would succeed the first and second, destroyed in 587BCE and 70CE respectively.

The idea of a rebuilt Third Temple is sacred in Judaism, particularly to Orthodox Jews, as it is believed that it will occur in tandem with the arrival of the Messiah, and only then will the sacrificial practices of the First and Second Temple be reinstated.







JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

I consider that interpretation of the "Temple of God" impossible. The Holy Spirit would not call a Christ rejecting Temple the "Temple of God."

He left the Temple in Jerusalem when Christ died on the cross:

50 And Jesus again crying with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And behold the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top even to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were rent. (Matt. 27:50-51 DRA) Compare 1 Kings 19:11

He certainly won't return to Jerusalem to inhabit a Temple built by Christ rejecting Jews.

Confirming this, Paul NEVER calls the Temple in Jerusalem the "Temple of God", only the church (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21).

So you evaded my question.

If the pope declared a "Christ-like" evangelist is "the Christ", but you know that is impossible because Christ's coming will be like a lightning storm in heaven everyone will see:

For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be. (Matt. 24:27 DRA)

Would a Catholic follow his "infallible pope" or the Bible?

 

[Mungo]

Please don't declare this an impossible hypothetical. Entertain for a moment it could happen:

Its the End Time and the False Christ appears in the form of "the man of sin", a man who condones all sorts of sin while working Christ-like miracles:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. (2 Thess. 2:3-4 DRA)

As the Church is the Temple of God this text says the "Man of Sin" False Christ will appear during a time of revolt against God, and in the Church he will be revealed.

If the pope declared the "man of sin" is "the Christ", could an individual Catholic who realized from reading Holy Scripture that couldn't be, refuse to follow him?

Can he reject the pope for Scripture?

I know Catholics do disagree with their pope on many things, especially the present pope. Is it possible a Catholic can disagree with the pope about the appearance of a miracle worker who claims to be Christ?

Or will they choose to follow their conscience, educated by the Bible?

This is not a Protestant versus Catholic question, I am convinced Protestant Churches have already revolted enough against God's Word they will receive the "man of sin" as Christ. He will be "woke" and very accepting of the LBFPQ...XYZ community, no matter the perversion.

I think you misunderstand what "papal infallibility means".

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus gifted a share in his infallibility to his Church. Therefore what the Church solemnly teaches, concerning faith or morals is true.

In doing this the Church draws on what God has taught either that which has been committed to writing (Scriptures) or passed on orally (Tradition).
I won't go into the evidence for this now because I'm explaining what the Catholic Church teaches.

The Church teaches that "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals." (CCC 891).

Such an infallible declaration is very rare. In the last 200 years there have only been two such declarations, one in 1854 (the Immaculate Conception) and 1950 (Assumption of Mary).

Such declarations are only made after consulting the Bishops throughout the world. It's not, as I once heard Richard Dawkins claim, "The Pope wakes up one day and over breakfast decides to infallibly declare a new doctrine which Catholics must believe" ( or words to that effect).

But going back to the question - Catholics would not be bound to believe what the Pope declares in this example because, for a start it, does not concern faith or morals.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I think you misunderstand what "papal infallibility means".

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus gifted a share in his infallibility to his Church. Therefore what the Church solemnly teaches, concerning faith or morals is true.

In doing this the Church draws on what God has taught either that which has been committed to writing (Scriptures) or passed on orally (Tradition).
I won't go into the evidence for this now because I'm explaining what the Catholic Church teaches.

The Church teaches that "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals." (CCC 891).

Such an infallible declaration is very rare. In the last 200 years there have only been two such declarations, one in 1854 (the Immaculate Conception) and 1950 (Assumption of Mary).

Such declarations are only made after consulting the Bishops throughout the world. It's not, as I once heard Richard Dawkins claim, "The Pope wakes up one day and over breakfast decides to infallibly declare a new doctrine which Catholics must believe" ( or words to that effect).

But going back to the question - Catholics would not be bound to believe what the Pope declares in this example because, for a start it, does not concern faith or morals.

Thanks for correcting my misimpression.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Please don't declare this an impossible hypothetical. Entertain for a moment it could happen:

Its the End Time and the False Christ appears in the form of "the man of sin", a man who condones all sorts of sin while working Christ-like miracles:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. (2 Thess. 2:3-4 DRA)

As the Church is the Temple of God this text says the "Man of Sin" False Christ will appear during a time of revolt against God, and in the Church he will be revealed.

If the pope declared the "man of sin" is "the Christ", could an individual Catholic who realized from reading Holy Scripture that couldn't be, refuse to follow him?

Can he reject the pope for Scripture?

I know Catholics do disagree with their pope on many things, especially the present pope. Is it possible a Catholic can disagree with the pope about the appearance of a miracle worker who claims to be Christ?

Or will they choose to follow their conscience, educated by the Bible?

This is not a Protestant versus Catholic question, I am convinced Protestant Churches have already revolted enough against God's Word they will receive the "man of sin" as Christ. He will be "woke" and very accepting of the LBFPQ...XYZ community, no matter the perversion.

No signs were given to wonder after . When How Where?

Jesus said it is a evil generation non concerted mankind that does seek after the temporal things seen as a sign (corruption dying)

That exposes the man of sin any man the deceive used as a false prophets false apostles :
sent messengers "

1 John 2 infallibly informs us of the antichrist (singulae) as the spirit of lies works in those he has deceived antichrists' (plural) many or a legion.

They were already working at the time period of 1 John to deceive mankind in a hope of deceiving God . peter in Mathew 16 is used to identify the man or men of sin under the power of the father of lies .

Peter rebuked the God of glory denying Jesus the Son of man frm doing the work of the father .The father rebuked the devil and said you have in mind the things of dying mankind, , a offence to our Holy unseen Father. In efect God said to him get behind God not seen and not sinful Peter seen .
Peter our brother in the Lord was forgiven again and again for his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus seen.

Blasphemy against the Holy Father eternal God not seen no forgiveness .He alone has the power to forgive rebuke and raise up new creatures from the dead

 

[Mungo]

No signs were given to wonder after . When How Where?

Jesus said it is a evil generation non concerted mankind that does seek after the temporal things seen as a sign (corruption dying)

That exposes the man of sin any man the deceive used as a false prophets false apostles :
sent messengers "

1 John 2 infallibly informs us of the antichrist (singulae) as the spirit of lies works in those he has deceived antichrists' (plural) many or a legion.

They were already working at the time period of 1 John to deceive mankind in a hope of deceiving God . peter in Mathew 16 is used to identify the man or men of sin under the power of the father of lies .

Peter rebuked the God of glory denying Jesus the Son of man frm doing the work of the father .The father rebuked the devil and said you have in mind the things of dying mankind, , a offence to our Holy unseen Father. In efect God said to him get behind God not seen and not sinful Peter seen .
Peter our brother in the Lord was forgiven again and again for his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus seen.

Blasphemy against the Holy Father eternal God not seen no forgiveness .He alone has the power to forgive rebuke and raise up new creatures from the dead

Can you put this into simple English please.
Thank you.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No signs were given to wonder after . When How Where?

Jesus said it is a evil generation non concerted mankind that does seek after the temporal things seen as a sign (corruption dying)

That exposes the man of sin any man the deceive used as a false prophets false apostles :
sent messengers "

1 John 2 infallibly informs us of the antichrist (singulae) as the spirit of lies works in those he has deceived antichrists' (plural) many or a legion.

They were already working at the time period of 1 John to deceive mankind in a hope of deceiving God . peter in Mathew 16 is used to identify the man or men of sin under the power of the father of lies .

Peter rebuked the God of glory denying Jesus the Son of man frm doing the work of the father .The father rebuked the devil and said you have in mind the things of dying mankind, , a offence to our Holy unseen Father. In efect God said to him get behind God not seen and not sinful Peter seen .
Peter our brother in the Lord was forgiven again and again for his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus seen.

Blasphemy against the Holy Father eternal God not seen no forgiveness .He alone has the power to forgive rebuke and raise up new creatures from the dead

I couldn't understand your post, so I asked ChatGPT to interpret it:
"
The passage you're referring to seems to be a compilation of thoughts from various parts of the New Testament, primarily focused on 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, 1 John 2, and the Gospel of Matthew, especially Matthew 16. These passages talk about the "man of sin" or "man of lawlessness," the spirit of the antichrist, and the account where Peter rebukes Jesus for talking about his forthcoming death and resurrection.

1. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4: This passage refers to the "man of lawlessness," often interpreted as the Antichrist, who is said to oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped.
2. 1 John 2: This chapter talks about the antichrist spirit and how many antichrists have already come, confirming that it is the last hour.
3. Matthew 16: This chapter includes an episode where Peter rebukes Jesus for talking about his forthcoming suffering, death, and resurrection. Jesus then rebukes Peter, saying, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."

In terms of the comments made by the individual speaking broken English, the focus seems to be on the evil inclinations of people who are more concerned with worldly things ("temporal things seen as a sign") than with divine, eternal matters. It seems to express the idea that being overly concerned with worldly matters is indicative of being under the influence of the "man of sin" or antichrist spirit.

The point about Peter seems to illustrate that even those who follow Christ can be misled or mislead others when they focus on worldly concerns. However, the speaker also emphasizes the forgiving nature of God, specifically towards Peter.

The final part about "blasphemy against the Holy Father eternal God not seen no forgiveness" seems to be referring to the concept of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit," a sin that is traditionally considered unforgivable according to certain passages in the New Testament (e.g., Mark 3:28-29).

It appears that the individual is attempting to compile various Biblical themes to communicate a warning about being led astray by worldly concerns and false teachings. Given that the message is conveyed in broken English and seems to mix different Biblical passages and themes, the overall message may not be straightforward to interpret without further clarification from the individual."

If ChatGPT is correct, I agree we must all guard against focus on worldly things, as Peter did, and not the things of God. That "spirit of worldly concern" is also "antichrist."

But the "Man of Sin" (whom some Protestants believe will be a Pope---I don't agree), will become the head of the revived Roman Empire, he will be a Jewish Christian with "Assyrian (Greek)" ancestry, a politician who also is a "miracle working evangelist". That wouldn't fit any pope. It better fits a "non-denominational charismatic sign and wonder working minister". He may have ties to the Assyrian Orthodox church but he will be an abomination, a "man OF sin", springing from sin.

Condoning every sin, claiming God is ok with sin.

He misleads the Church (because of his signs and wonders) into total apostasy, after 3.5 years he reveals he is the literal "seed of Satan" (Gen. 3:15; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 13:5) and many will stick with him, becoming outright worshipers of him and the devil.

That is why Satan is spreading UFO disinformation about aliens and dna....its setting up the Antichrist to claim he is a hybrid "Elohim-human" like the "men of renown" in Gen. 6:2, 4. He will claim his hybrid nature is evolutionary, superior to the Elohim, and that is how he claims to be superior to Yahweh God. A truly "big mouth of boatful things".

The Antichrist His Names Titles and Ancestry | End Time News

The Antichrist will appear in the guise of Christ, to oppose Christ. Paul called him the "Son of Destruction" which implies a Jewish-Christian miracle worker evangelist. His name is Adonikam and he will rise from obscurity near the ancient city of Antioch, modern Turkey. He is from ancient...

endtimenews.net

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I couldn't understand your post, so I asked ChatGPT to interpret it:
"
The passage you're referring to seems to be a compilation of thoughts from various parts of the New Testament, primarily focused on 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, 1 John 2, and the Gospel of Matthew, especially Matthew 16. These passages talk about the "man of sin" or "man of lawlessness," the spirit of the antichrist, and the account where Peter rebukes Jesus for talking about his forthcoming death and resurrection.

1. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4: This passage refers to the "man of lawlessness," often interpreted as the Antichrist, who is said to oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped.
2. 1 John 2: This chapter talks about the antichrist spirit and how many antichrists have already come, confirming that it is the last hour.
3. Matthew 16: This chapter includes an episode where Peter rebukes Jesus for talking about his forthcoming suffering, death, and resurrection. Jesus then rebukes Peter, saying, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."

In terms of the comments made by the individual speaking broken English, the focus seems to be on the evil inclinations of people who are more concerned with worldly things ("temporal things seen as a sign") than with divine, eternal matters. It seems to express the idea that being overly concerned with worldly matters is indicative of being under the influence of the "man of sin" or antichrist spirit.

The point about Peter seems to illustrate that even those who follow Christ can be misled or mislead others when they focus on worldly concerns. However, the speaker also emphasizes the forgiving nature of God, specifically towards Peter.

The final part about "blasphemy against the Holy Father eternal God not seen no forgiveness" seems to be referring to the concept of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit," a sin that is traditionally considered unforgivable according to certain passages in the New Testament (e.g., Mark 3:28-29).

It appears that the individual is attempting to compile various Biblical themes to communicate a warning about being led astray by worldly concerns and false teachings. Given that the message is conveyed in broken English and seems to mix different Biblical passages and themes, the overall message may not be straightforward to interpret without further clarification from the individual."

If ChatGPT is correct, I agree we must all guard against focus on worldly things, as Peter did, and not the things of God. That "spirit of worldly concern" is also "antichrist."

But the "Man of Sin" (whom some Protestants believe will be a Pope---I don't agree), will become the head of the revived Roman Empire, he will be a Jewish Christian with "Assyrian (Greek)" ancestry, a politician who also is a "miracle working evangelist". That wouldn't fit any pope. It better fits a "non-denominational charismatic sign and wonder working minister". He may have ties to the Assyrian Orthodox church but he will be an abomination, a "man OF sin", springing from sin.

Condoning every sin, claiming God is ok with sin.

He misleads the Church (because of his signs and wonders) into total apostasy, after 3.5 years he reveals he is the literal "seed of Satan" (Gen. 3:15; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 13:5) and many will stick with him, becoming outright worshipers of him and the devil.

That is why Satan is spreading UFO disinformation about aliens and dna....its setting up the Antichrist to claim he is a hybrid "Elohim-human" like the "men of renown" in Gen. 6:2, 4. He will claim his hybrid nature is evolutionary, superior to the Elohim, and that is how he claims to be superior to Yahweh God. A truly "big mouth of boatful things".

The Antichrist His Names Titles and Ancestry | End Time News

The Antichrist will appear in the guise of Christ, to oppose Christ. Paul called him the "Son of Destruction" which implies a Jewish-Christian miracle worker evangelist. His name is Adonikam and he will rise from obscurity near the ancient city of Antioch, modern Turkey. He is from ancient...

endtimenews.net

A whole lot of material for Outer limits. . Twilight Zone. . science fiction.

The bible defines antichrist(singular) as another teaching authority other than the word of God. False prophets as false apostles sent as lying spirits.

1 John 2 describe both the source as antichrist (singular_) and the influence antichrists (plural many or legion)
They were recorded as being there during the first century the same antichrist false teacher in the garden questioning sola scriptura "you will surely not die" . . the father of lies from the beginning.

The man of sin is any of the antichrists (plural) seduced by the father of lies ..again the spirit of antichrist. also referred to a legion he works in many antichrists.

Peter our brother in the lord in Matthew 16as a warning to us is used to represent both the antichrist "another teaching authority" other than the Holy Spirit .
Satan the source or power of lies and antichrists false messengers(apostles ). Peter empowered with the lie rebukes God unseen and forbids Jesus the Son of man of performing the gospel . . the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against.

Then God put his words on the mouth his prophet of Jesus the Son of man and our Holy Father in heaven working in Jesus rebuked the antichrist (spirit of false apostles) saying in effect get behind me eternal God not seen . . . not dying mankind seen they have no power to raise the dead or rebuke the spirit of error .

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man blasphemy against the unseen Holy Father offers no forgiveness.

God... Holy Father)
Jesus ... the Son of man
Peter .....the deceived one of many antichrists
Satan.....the spirt of lies the source that works in dying mankind

Mathew 16:22-23 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Like all the battles of the lord having nothing to do with the things seen flesh and blood rather than the conflicting spirt of error the antichrist

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.