Bible Study Question about Legion and the Pigs

[reba]

Recommendations and Guidelines for an effective Bible Study

Though not exhaustive, I thought it might help to better define the purpose of the Bible Study Forum, and by doing so, better assist one another with a clearer method to understanding God’s word.

Guidelines

1. Scripture is the basis of study. Stay close to the text.
2. Keep your post to a manageable length where others can respond to a section of scripture as opposed to an entire article.
3. We encourage your understanding of a text. If you wish to post snipits from a website, please make sure it accompanies your comments of the text. Excessive copy / paste from web sites are frowned upon.
4. If you disagree with an interpretation of scripture, think out your response according to the specific text and post accordingly.
5. No debating doctrines or denominational differences. (E.G. TULIP, OSAS, Purgatory, Papacy etc)

The following considerations are suggested to assist in our study of Holy Scripture. This method utilizes an instructional and comprehensive approach

1. Exegesis; Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text. (I.E. What does the text mean?)
2. Hermeneutics; The theory and methodology of interpretation, especially of scriptural text. (I.E. How did you come to the conclusion of your Exegesis? Does it agree with the Bible as a whole?)
3. Redaction; to draw up or frame ( I.E. a statement, proclamation, etc.)

Bible Study forum is supposed to be some what of a study of scripture.... this is like herding cats.

 

[Deborah13]

Wellll. Jesus did send them into the water ( flood ) :/

ok ok no more Choppy's watching.

 

[Deborah13]

Recommendations and Guidelines for an effective Bible Study

Though not exhaustive, I thought it might help to better define the purpose of the Bible Study Forum, and by doing so, better assist one another with a clearer method to understanding God’s word.

Guidelines

1. Scripture is the basis of study. Stay close to the text.
2. Keep your post to a manageable length where others can respond to a section of scripture as opposed to an entire article.
3. We encourage your understanding of a text. If you wish to post snipits from a website, please make sure it accompanies your comments of the text. Excessive copy / paste from web sites are frowned upon.
4. If you disagree with an interpretation of scripture, think out your response according to the specific text and post accordingly.
5. No debating doctrines or denominational differences. (E.G. TULIP, OSAS, Purgatory, Papacy etc)

The following considerations are suggested to assist in our study of Holy Scripture. This method utilizes an instructional and comprehensive approach

1. Exegesis; Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text. (I.E. What does the text mean?)
2. Hermeneutics; The theory and methodology of interpretation, especially of scriptural text. (I.E. How did you come to the conclusion of your Exegesis? Does it agree with the Bible as a whole?)
3. Redaction; to draw up or frame ( I.E. a statement, proclamation, etc.)

Bible Study forum is supposed to be some what of a study of scripture.... this is like herding cats.

Oppss....Sorry Reba, I forgot where we were, we are!!!

 

[reba]

 

[About the Son of God]

Mark 5:1-13

Why did Jesus allow the demons to go into the pigs?
Did he have mercy on them?
Why would he have mercy on the enemy?

Hi Angel,
This is a question which interests me as well.

Every moment Jesus allows the earth to continue to exist without being thrown into the lake of fire, he is having mercy on the fallen angels in the sense of delaying their ultimate punishment. So, I'm going to say "yes" he had mercy on them; but not forgiveness.

There are several things in the story which have subtle meanings, and it's very difficult to make sense of it. I'm not sure what it means...

But -- I think the story of the swine is somehow connected to the ones which happened before, eg: the parables and sea crossing because they are connected explicitly in scripture;

Mark 4:35 And the same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side.

In jewish thinking, a new day begins at evening; but Mark forces us to call them the same "day" in this particular scripture; and that is a clue which makes me think that Mark wants us to compare the previous parables with what follows as a single act/teaching of God.

I know Parables are riddles called "wisdom writings" and so we need to be thinking in terms of books like Genesis and creation, or Ezekiel, or one of the prophets to figure this out...

Consider:
It was not unusual for prophets in ancient times to teach using parables, or the acting out of future events by doing miniature plays, and sometimes even miracles. Isaiah, for example, was told by God to lay on his side by a campfire in public and do certain scandalous looking things to act out how Jerusalem would be sieged in the future, and fall to foreign powers.

I don't know what's going on with the story of the swine -- but I do know is that Jesus had been just teaching his disciples and the Jews from parables; -- but then Jesus suddenly leaves off teaching the Jews, to whom he spoke in riddles -- and crosses the "sea" ( a lake according to Luke ) and contends with wind and water which obey him -- BUT that very act poses a riddle even greater than the previous parables to Jesus' disciples: "who is this whom even the wind and water obey?"

And immediately upon evading the evil storm/wind on the sea -- and climbing up a hill on the "other side" -- Jesus meets a man possessed by evil spirit(s) (wind/breath=spirit, the storm on the lake is also a spirit. So: It's as if the storm wants to try again...).

Now, Jesus often casts demons out without even using their name, but in the story of the swine -- after commanding the demon to leave; the demon is still in the man, and then Jesus suddenly asks it it's name ... finding not one, but many -- Jesus then allows this "legion" of spirits into swine which race back down the mountain in the very direction Jesus came from (toward the Jews) -- and plunge into the lake....

So -- this is a puzzle...
I don't know what it means ; but I'm going to list out / brainstorm about the elements of the story; and give some random ideas which might be useful in pondering the question....

-------

The "sea" is a traditional place meant to symbolize the gentiles in general ; it is where "beasts" come out of in many prophecies of the old testament, representing the rise of kingdoms and powers. It represents armies and destruction, chaos...

"Legion" is a specific word representing the Roman military, a Gentile power.

Wind and water, spirits and chaos, are also elements of creation and are items which are "without form" and used to mean "formless" in many wisdom writings and dark sayings of old.
eg: See Genesis and the seven days of creation. "The earth was void and without form."
Notably, the only time God does not call his act "Good" in Genesis is when he "cuts" the waters to separate the sky from the waters below. When he cuts the formlessness ... it's not pure creation.

I'll also note that: Angles/Demons are "spirits", which are also formless entities -- and scripture sometimes says that God makes his messengers (angels) wind and flame. eg: The shekina Glory cloud in the Exodus desert, (the storm and pillar of fire), the burning bush, lighning, etc. were all understood by the Jews and Paul to be "angels".

Finally; In traditional Jewish thinking, the place that demons generally wander are in are lonely and deserted locations -- particularly, in the desert and upon mountain tops.

------

So -- although I haven't answered the question, yet, It seems likely to me that Jesus is acting somehow as a prophet; and showing his disciples the power of God in creation (a day) possibly something to do with the Gentiles, and in particular the Roman military;

There is one other thing, an old prophecy, which is related to tombs and Gentiles and the messiah.... which might have something to do with it, too...

Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death [tombs/Romans], upon them hath the light shined.

Cheers...

 

[Angel]

Awesome insight! Thanks!