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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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Question about "Nephilim"
- Thread starter Danus
- Start date
ronniechoate34
Member
I used to concern myself with human angel hybrids and such. They may exist and they may not. There's too much argument about it if you ask me. It's dividing the church and it's not even a real important doctrinal issue at all. It isn't pertinent to your salvation is it? God isn't gonna count it a sin for anyone not to dwell on whether or not alien human hybrids exist. It's not important to teach this thing and it's not urgent that we understand it. Is it?
It is important to understand if you want to understand a good portion of God's Word. Without understanding it, Scripture like the following won't make sense...
Num 13:32-33
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
(KJV)
Deut 3:11
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
(KJV)
A cubit is somewhere around 18" to 20", basically the length of the forearm/hand of man. So nine cubits would be around 180".
Deut 3:4-7
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.
(KJV)
God told Israel to utterly destroy the people's in the lands of inheritance He gave Israel (Gen.15:18-21; Deut.20); but to others outside those lands to make peace. The reason was because the giants dwelt in those lands He gave Israel. The name Rephaim is a proper name for the giants.
Num 13:32-33
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
(KJV)
Deut 3:11
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
(KJV)
A cubit is somewhere around 18" to 20", basically the length of the forearm/hand of man. So nine cubits would be around 180".
Deut 3:4-7
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.
(KJV)
God told Israel to utterly destroy the people's in the lands of inheritance He gave Israel (Gen.15:18-21; Deut.20); but to others outside those lands to make peace. The reason was because the giants dwelt in those lands He gave Israel. The name Rephaim is a proper name for the giants.
Physicist
Member
Danus said:
Quite simple. its a remnant from an earlier tale that probably related to Giants. The OT has several of these remnants as, for example, the enigmatic character of Melchizadek who is briefly mentioned in the Bible but had other stories about him, captured in fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The redactor of Genesis, remember, combined at least two, and maybe more texts, into the version of Genesis we have today. Some things got dropped or truncated.
watchman F
Member
No they were not the offspring of Angels/humans. The Greek word Nephil is more accurately translated tyrant rather than Giant. The Nephil were simply very evil people. Moreover the passage never says that they were the children of the union between the sons of God and the daughter of men, it was simply a parathetical phrase ''and at that time there were giants in the land'' not related to anything outside the corruption that was taking place at the time. In comparison the Greek word Rapha referring to Galiath actually means a giant, and the Greek word Gbulah referring to the sons of Anak means warrior, champian, tyrant ect..... The Niphilym were nothing more than normal sized evil humans.Danus said:
Danus
Member
watchman F said:
I tend to agree.
I'm back to reading the bible front to back and delving deeper. I've noticed a couple of thoughts on this subject and I have always thought it was in reference to evil men, but I noticed a few splits on this specifically surrounding Gen. 6:4.
My take on "Sons of God" is referring to Seth's line of decedents and "daughters of men" referring to Cain's line. I don't see the term Nephilim as necessarily a race/type of giant people literally or the off-spring of the two lines specifically, but a broad descriptive term used more as a metaphor to describe ungodly or self righteous/evil men. At the same time I know there are other verses in the bible that seem to fall on this same theme and I'm wondering if there is the same evidence to support the thought.
Thanks for your take. I will look that up a bit more.
watchman F
Member
Danus, I think you are dead on, and I applaud your effort to search out God's pure truth.Danus said:
Mysteryman
Member
Danus said:
I believe as others have already said here. They were normal size and just evil. But the reason I think the word "giant" was used, is because it is in reference to a greater authority of some type. King David was a giant among men, but in reality , he was a runt, or mayber I should say, short/small in stature.
Love IN Christ - MM
The Hebrew word Nephilim means "fellers; those who cause [others] to fall down" and evidently stems from the causative form of the Hebrew na·phal´ (fall) as found, for example, in 2 Kings 3:19 ("every good tree you should fell"); 19:7("I shall certainly cause him to fall "). At Genesis 25:18, the Hebrew word na·phal´ is used, and is rendered as "settled down", with the literal rendition of the latter part of the scripture as being "on faces of all of brothers of him he fell."("fell", na·phal´, online interlinear Scripture4all )
The Bible account describes God's displeasure with men in the days of Noah before the global flood, and relates that "the sons of the true God" took for themselves wives from among the attractive daughters of men. It now mentions the presence of "Nephilim", saying: "The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones (Hebrew hag·gib·bo·rim´) who were of old, the men of fame."(Gen 6:1-4)
Certain Bible translations adjust the location of the phrase “and also after that,†placing it near the beginning of verse 4, thus identifying the Nephilim with the “mighty ones,†the gib·bo·rim´, mentioned in the latter part of the verse. For example: “In those days, as well as afterward, there were giants [Hebrew, han·nephi·lim´] on the earth, who were born to the sons of the gods whenever they had intercourse with the daughters of men; these were the heroes [Hebrew, hag·gib·bo·rim´] who were men of note in days of old.â€(Gen 6:4, An American Translation; see also Moffett, New International Version, and Today's English Version)
The Greek Septuagint also suggests that both the “Nephilim†and “mighty ones†are identical by using the same word gi´gan·tes (giants) to translate both expressions. Reviewing the account, verses 1 to 3 tell of “the sons of the true God†taking wives and of God’s statement that he was going to end his patience with men after 120 years.
Verse 4 then speaks of the Nephilim proving to be in the earth “in those days,†evidently the days when God made the statement. Then it shows that this situation continued “after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men,†and describes in more detail the results of the union of “the sons of the true God†with women.
Who were “the sons of the true God†that were involved? Were they men who were worshipers of God (as distinguished from the general run of wicked mankind), as some claim? Evidently not. The Bible implies that their marriage to the daughters of men resulted in whipping up the badness in the earth. Noah and his three sons, along with their wives, were the only ones in God’s favor and were the only ones preserved through the Deluge.(Gen 6:9; 8:15, 16; 1Pet 3:20)
Hence, if these “sons of the true God†were merely men, the question arises, Why were their offspring “men of fame†more than those of the wicked, or of faithful Noah? Also, the question might be asked, Why mention their marriage to the daughters of men as something special? Marriage and childbearing had been taking place for more than 1,500 years.
The sons of God mentioned at Genesis 6:2, therefore, must have been angels, spirit “sons of God.†This expression is applied to angels at Job 1:6; 38:7. This view is supported by Peter, who speaks of “the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days.†(1Pet 3:19, 20) Also Jude writes of “the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place.†(Jude 6)
Angels had the power to materialize in human form, and some angels did so to bring messages from God. (Gen 18:1, 2, 8, 20-22; 19:1-11; Jos 5:13-15) But heaven is the proper abode of spirit persons, and the angels there have positions of service under God. (Dan 7:9, 10) To leave this abode to dwell on earth and to forsake their assigned service to have fleshly relations would be rebellion against God’s laws, and a perversion.
The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now “spirits in prison,†having been ‘thrown into Tartarus’ and “reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.†This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable again to materialize as they did prior to the Flood.(1Pet 3:19; 2Pet 2:4; Jude 6)
“The mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame†that were produced by these marriages, were not men of fame with God, for they did not survive the Flood, as did Noah and his family. They were “Nephilim,†bullies, tyrants, who no doubt helped to make conditions worse.
Their angelic fathers, knowing the construction of the human body and being able to materialize, were not creating life, but lived in these human bodies and, cohabiting with women, brought forth children. Their children, “mighty ones,†were therefore unauthorized hybrids. Apparently the Nephilim did not, in turn, have children.
The ten spies who brought back to the Israelites in the wilderness a false report on the land of Canaan declared: “All the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size. And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who are from the Nephilim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.â€
No doubt there were some large men in Canaan, as other scriptures show, but never except in this “bad report,†which was carefully couched in language designed to strike terror and cause panic among the Israelites, are they called Nephilim.(Num 13:31-33; 14:36, 37)
(source of most of information - Insight on the Scriptures)
The Bible account describes God's displeasure with men in the days of Noah before the global flood, and relates that "the sons of the true God" took for themselves wives from among the attractive daughters of men. It now mentions the presence of "Nephilim", saying: "The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones (Hebrew hag·gib·bo·rim´) who were of old, the men of fame."(Gen 6:1-4)
Certain Bible translations adjust the location of the phrase “and also after that,†placing it near the beginning of verse 4, thus identifying the Nephilim with the “mighty ones,†the gib·bo·rim´, mentioned in the latter part of the verse. For example: “In those days, as well as afterward, there were giants [Hebrew, han·nephi·lim´] on the earth, who were born to the sons of the gods whenever they had intercourse with the daughters of men; these were the heroes [Hebrew, hag·gib·bo·rim´] who were men of note in days of old.â€(Gen 6:4, An American Translation; see also Moffett, New International Version, and Today's English Version)
The Greek Septuagint also suggests that both the “Nephilim†and “mighty ones†are identical by using the same word gi´gan·tes (giants) to translate both expressions. Reviewing the account, verses 1 to 3 tell of “the sons of the true God†taking wives and of God’s statement that he was going to end his patience with men after 120 years.
Verse 4 then speaks of the Nephilim proving to be in the earth “in those days,†evidently the days when God made the statement. Then it shows that this situation continued “after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men,†and describes in more detail the results of the union of “the sons of the true God†with women.
Who were “the sons of the true God†that were involved? Were they men who were worshipers of God (as distinguished from the general run of wicked mankind), as some claim? Evidently not. The Bible implies that their marriage to the daughters of men resulted in whipping up the badness in the earth. Noah and his three sons, along with their wives, were the only ones in God’s favor and were the only ones preserved through the Deluge.(Gen 6:9; 8:15, 16; 1Pet 3:20)
Hence, if these “sons of the true God†were merely men, the question arises, Why were their offspring “men of fame†more than those of the wicked, or of faithful Noah? Also, the question might be asked, Why mention their marriage to the daughters of men as something special? Marriage and childbearing had been taking place for more than 1,500 years.
The sons of God mentioned at Genesis 6:2, therefore, must have been angels, spirit “sons of God.†This expression is applied to angels at Job 1:6; 38:7. This view is supported by Peter, who speaks of “the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days.†(1Pet 3:19, 20) Also Jude writes of “the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place.†(Jude 6)
Angels had the power to materialize in human form, and some angels did so to bring messages from God. (Gen 18:1, 2, 8, 20-22; 19:1-11; Jos 5:13-15) But heaven is the proper abode of spirit persons, and the angels there have positions of service under God. (Dan 7:9, 10) To leave this abode to dwell on earth and to forsake their assigned service to have fleshly relations would be rebellion against God’s laws, and a perversion.
The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now “spirits in prison,†having been ‘thrown into Tartarus’ and “reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.†This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable again to materialize as they did prior to the Flood.(1Pet 3:19; 2Pet 2:4; Jude 6)
“The mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame†that were produced by these marriages, were not men of fame with God, for they did not survive the Flood, as did Noah and his family. They were “Nephilim,†bullies, tyrants, who no doubt helped to make conditions worse.
Their angelic fathers, knowing the construction of the human body and being able to materialize, were not creating life, but lived in these human bodies and, cohabiting with women, brought forth children. Their children, “mighty ones,†were therefore unauthorized hybrids. Apparently the Nephilim did not, in turn, have children.
The ten spies who brought back to the Israelites in the wilderness a false report on the land of Canaan declared: “All the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size. And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who are from the Nephilim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.â€
No doubt there were some large men in Canaan, as other scriptures show, but never except in this “bad report,†which was carefully couched in language designed to strike terror and cause panic among the Israelites, are they called Nephilim.(Num 13:31-33; 14:36, 37)
(source of most of information - Insight on the Scriptures)
Nice wordplay, but it's not good enough, for such play reasoning with the words like Nephilim and sons of God OUTSIDE God's written Word means little more than man's philosophical musings.
In the Old Testament, the "sons of God" title is ONLY about angels...
Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
(KJV)
Job 38:6-7
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(KJV)
What a revelation, I never heard that mere human flesh tyrants in Old Testament times were able to present themselves before The LORD in Heaven in His Presence, with Satan among them. And I also wasn't aware mere flesh human tyrrants were present when God first laid the foundations of the earth! Guess all the literal Bible comparisons of the giants being of great size ("stature") is meaningless also! I wonder if some of you even believe that angels really exist per God's Word too.
In the Old Testament, the "sons of God" title is ONLY about angels...
Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
(KJV)
Job 38:6-7
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(KJV)
What a revelation, I never heard that mere human flesh tyrants in Old Testament times were able to present themselves before The LORD in Heaven in His Presence, with Satan among them. And I also wasn't aware mere flesh human tyrrants were present when God first laid the foundations of the earth! Guess all the literal Bible comparisons of the giants being of great size ("stature") is meaningless also! I wonder if some of you even believe that angels really exist per God's Word too.
Mysteryman
Member
veteran said:
Sons of God were "not" just angels ! They were Seth's offspring and they were also Job's offspring. The sons of God are angels as well.
In Job 1:6 the sons of God refers to the sons of Job . And Satan came along with them. God eventually asks Satan where he has been ? So he lies, and tells God that he was just going to and fro in the earth. When in fact, he came above the earth to be with the sons of Job. Remember - Satan is a liar !
IN Christ - MM
veteran said:
The information in the Insight on the Scriptures did not say that "fleshly tyrants in Old Testament times were able to present themselves before The LORD in heaven", but rather that angels materialized in human bodies upon coming to the earth and had relations with the "daughters of men", conceiving offspring - Nephilim - who then grew up and became unauthorized hybrids, bullies, tyrants. Genesis 6:4 says that the "Neph´i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God (materialized angels) continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons (Nephilim) to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame."
The Nephilim grew to be "giants in the earth in those days."(King James Bible) Their fathers, being materialized angels who "forsook their own proper dwelling place" in heaven (Jude 6), came down to the earth before the global deluge, for the perverted purpose of having sexual relations with women. Being as the offspring of these rebellious materialized angels became "giants", with far greater strength than ordinary humans, these Nephilim caused and egged on "the badness of man (that) was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the heart of the heart of man was only bad all the time."(Gen 6:5)
At the laying of the foundations of the earth in Job 38, none of the "sons of the true God" or angels had materialized as a human, for no humans existed then. Only eons later, after the successive generations of Adam and Eve's children began to fill the earth, and "daughters of men" were now seen as "good-looking" by the rebellious angels (Gen 6:2), then these angels came down from heaven, materialized and lived in human bodies, cohabiting with women and produced the "Nephilim."
Mysteryman
Member
nadab said:
It is so sad to see anyone cling to such a theory as this one. First, God never created an angel to be able to pro-create literally.
If you still cling to this theory. One could ask you as to how many hybreds are you looking at every time you go to work or the store ? Is it the clerk behind the counter ? Is it the sales person selling you items ?
Maybe its the cop who pulled you over for speeding ? And if you still cling to this theory. Ask yourself, whom did you truly marry, within you marriage relationship ? Or this, all fornication is of the devil and thus all women who conceive during fornication just had a sex relationship with a devil spirit . ?
Where is any logic in this kind of thinking ? My answer would be - None !
Love IN Christ - MM
watchman F
Member
Two accounts in Job does not prove that sons of God means angels and only angels in every occasion through out the O.T.. In the context of Genesis 6 there is no reason anyone should believe that angels had offspring with humans, nor that the giants in the land were the offspring of any union between the sons of God, and the daughters of men regardless of who or what they represent.veteran said:
watchman F
Member
I agree with you mysteryman, not only is it absurd to think that angel mix-bred with humans, but it is very sad to see people hold to such outrageous theology.Mysteryman said:
Mysteryman said:
Apparently the Nephilim did not have children. When the global deluge arrived in Noah's 600th year (Gen 7:11), the materialized angels, "sons of the true God", dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm, unable to materialize again. However, the Nephilim were drown when the flood waters overwhelmed the earth, to a depth of about 22 feet.("fifteen cubits", Gen 7:19, 20) Only the descendants of Noah's three sons are on the earth today.(Gen 10:1)
The apostle Peter wrote that Jesus, after his resurrection from the dead, "went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water."(1 Pet 3:19, 20)
What was their disobedient act ? Genesis 6:2 says that these took "wives for themselves" from among "the daughters of men". The result were unauthorized hybrid offspring, Nephilim. Jude reveals that these "angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day."(Jude 6)
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the expression "sons of the true God" only applied to angels, as at Job 1:6, and at Job 38:7, whereby the Jewish Targums reads "the bands of angels", and the Greek Septuagint as "my angels". Angels have materialized on several occasions, such as at Genesis 19:1, 32:1 and Judges 6:11, even eating a meal.(Gen 19:3)