Questions for every one

[gingercat]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

 

[stovebolts]

Good question with many many answers.

Theology is man's understanding on scripture. Good theology is considered orthodox while bad theology is called heresy.

Heresy is a part of theology. Since the first century church, there have been misunderstandings or new idea's and philosophies that have tried to enter the church. As a result, doctrines emerged to combat the heresy. (The Apostiles Creed in the second century is an example of one professing his faith at baptism which later morphed and expanded into the Niceen Creed of the third century)

When you see two 'christians' fighting, it is because they are attempting to prove thier theology and as we all know, pride can blind us at times...

That aside, doctrine is very important, and that is one reason of many why people argue it.

Hope this helps.

In Christ,
Jeff

 

[thessalonian]

I think from my perspective there can be differences in theology that don't make or break whether someone is a Christian. They may be heretical but they do not put one outside Christianity. However when you are talking about doctrines that deal with the nature of God, i.e. who he is these are foundational and critical to who a Christian is. We are who we are in relation to him. One cannot describe Bob as about 4 feet tall with hair all over his body and the face of a chimpanzee if he is human. The Bob chimpanzee you have described is the wrong Bob if someone asks you who bob is. You don't know him and are of no help to them if they are looking for Bob the human. The same is true of the nature of God. He has attributes and if someone does not have the right understanding of those attributes he does not have the real God. He might have characterisitcs of his God that are a part of the real God's character, like one can say a chimp has legs and a man has legs. This hardly makes them equal. The views between a Trinitarian and a Oneness type and an Arian or Donatist have fundamental contradictions in the nature of God. They cannot simultaneously be one and the same God. Some do not think us Catholics are Christians by the way. I don't let it bother me too much.

Hope that helps.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

Bad theology can lead you to hell.

Albigensians... they said the body was bad. Do whatever you want no matter what it is as long as you dont have children. if you get pregnant, abort it.

Mormonism... they claim to be christian, and yet they say that divinity is something you can achieve. they claim more than one god exists and that we in turn can become gods with all the attributes of the one true God.

 

[gingercat]

Good question with many many answers.

Theology is man's understanding on scripture. Good theology is considered orthodox while bad theology is called heresy.

Heresy is a part of theology. Since the first century church, there have been misunderstandings or new idea's and philosophies that have tried to enter the church. As a result, doctrines emerged to combat the heresy. (The Apostiles Creed in the second century is an example of one professing his faith at baptism which later morphed and expanded into the Niceen Creed of the third century)

When you see two 'christians' fighting, it is because they are attempting to prove thier theology and as we all know, pride can blind us at times...

That aside, doctrine is very important, and that is one reason of many why people argue it.

Hope this helps.

In Christ,
Jeff

I guess I did not make myself clear. How about trinity? Is it really a requirement of Christianity? ( I don't think so.)

 

[thessalonian]

You have to realize what is at stake and understand that those who say yes probably have a sincere desire to see you in heaven. Most non-trinitarians I know don't make the nature of God a requirement for the definition of a Christian. Most (though not all) trinitarians do. If trinitarian theology is correct then most likely one must be a trinitarian to be a Christian. However a part of this discussion hinges on what is and what is not essential theology. Is it okay just to believe there was once a guy named Jesus who did some good things we are to imitate, or do you have to dot your theoogica I's and cross your theological t's. There are views everywhere in between. Catholicism has actually a third view on this that I won't get in to here as it would seriously derail the thread.

In the end it is the truth that will matter. If you think you have it don't sweat it. If you don't know for sure, you better do some searching.

blessings

 

[gingercat]

You have to realize what is at stake and understand that those who say yes probably have a sincere desire to see you in heaven. Most non-trinitarians I know don't make the nature of God a requirement for the definition of a Christian. Most (though not all) trinitarians do. If trinitarian theology is correct then most likely one must be a trinitarian to be a Christian. However a part of this discussion hinges on what is and what is not essential theology. Is it okay just to believe there was once a guy named Jesus who did some good things we are to imitate, or do you have to dot your theoogica I's and cross your theological t's. There are views everywhere in between. Catholicism has actually a third view on this that I won't get in to here as it would seriously derail the thread.

In the end it is the truth that will matter. If you think you have it don't sweat it. If you don't know for sure, you better do some searching.

blessings

Thes,

When I was in another forum, someone questioned about whether Holy Spirit is a person or not, I commented that it is not so important either way then she called me I am not Christian or something like that.

Some denomination believe that if you don't believe OSAS theology you are heretical. It is just absurd!

 

[thessalonian]

You have to realize what is at stake and understand that those who say yes probably have a sincere desire to see you in heaven. Most non-trinitarians I know don't make the nature of God a requirement for the definition of a Christian. Most (though not all) trinitarians do. If trinitarian theology is correct then most likely one must be a trinitarian to be a Christian. However a part of this discussion hinges on what is and what is not essential theology. Is it okay just to believe there was once a guy named Jesus who did some good things we are to imitate, or do you have to dot your theoogica I's and cross your theological t's. There are views everywhere in between. Catholicism has actually a third view on this that I won't get in to here as it would seriously derail the thread.

In the end it is the truth that will matter. If you think you have it don't sweat it. If you don't know for sure, you better do some searching.

blessings

Thes,

When I was in another forum, someone questioned about whether Holy Spirit is a person or not, I commented that it is not so important either way then she called me I am not Christian or something like that.

Some denomination believe that if you don't believe OSAS theology you are heretical. It is just absurd!

Thanks for giving more flesh to your question. I have to ask you something and I ask it with all seriousness with regard to you position, not desiring to offend but for reflection. By what authority do you say that something regarding the nature of who God is or isn't is important. What is your list of important doctrines and by what authority do you say that your list is the authoritative one by which if everyone follows they will be okay in the end? What makes your authority greater than this person you were having the discussion with? Please take this in the tone of discussion.

Blessings

 

[mutzrein]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

The difference is that all that many of them have to go on is what is written the book. They interpret it solely on the basis of the intellect. They follow the doctrines of men. They believe that salvation is achieved through a process of mental assent. They are devoid of the Spirit – either that or after starting with the spirit they have gone back to trying to achieve their goal by human effort. They are hoodwinked or bewitched as Paul puts it in his letter to the Galatians.
And that is why, when someone is born of the Spirit who believes something different to them, the only response they have got is based on the 'letter', and since you don’t believe in this or that doctrine you are a heretic and therefore are not saved or not a Christian or not born again or whatever.

 

[thessalonian]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

The difference is that all that many of them have to go on is what is written the book. They interpret it solely on the basis of the intellect. They follow the doctrines of men. They believe that salvation is achieved through a process of mental assent. They are devoid of the Spirit – either that or after starting with the spirit they have gone back to trying to achieve their goal by human effort. They are hoodwinked or bewitched as Paul puts it in his letter to the Galatians.
And that is why, when someone is born of the Spirit who believes something different to them, the only response they have got is based on the 'letter', and since you don’t believe in this or that doctrine you are a heretic and therefore are not saved or not a Christian or not born again or whatever.

So what you are saying is that what Jesus taught is not all that important? Isn't the Bible supposed to contain all that is neccessary for our salvation as a Protestant axiom of faith? Then why is it okay as a Protestant to not believe some part of the Bible. Which parts are and which are not "neccessary for salvation" that are contained in the Bible which contains alll that is neccessary for salvation according to this axiom I've heard so often?

They are hoodwinked or bewitched as Paul puts it in his letter to the Galatians.

In other words you have determined that by what they believe about you they are not Christians? Are you saying that anyone who says you have to be a Trinitarian to be a Christian is not a Christian? The opposite end of the spectrum. This would seem to contradict ginger's view that it doesn't matter.

 

[Henry]

Jesus warned us of false Christ, jsut any ole Jesus won't do.

For example the mormon Jesus a fake, trust in the fake and you will end in hell.

Sorry but that is the way it is

 

[mutzrein]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

The difference is that all that many of them have to go on is what is written the book. They interpret it solely on the basis of the intellect. They follow the doctrines of men. They believe that salvation is achieved through a process of mental assent. They are devoid of the Spirit – either that or after starting with the spirit they have gone back to trying to achieve their goal by human effort. They are hoodwinked or bewitched as Paul puts it in his letter to the Galatians.
And that is why, when someone is born of the Spirit who believes something different to them, the only response they have got is based on the 'letter', and since you don’t believe in this or that doctrine you are a heretic and therefore are not saved or not a Christian or not born again or whatever.

So what you are saying is that what Jesus taught is not all that important? Isn't the Bible supposed to contain all that is neccessary for our salvation as a Protestant axiom of faith? Then why is it okay as a Protestant to not believe some part of the Bible. Which parts are and which are not "neccessary for salvation" that are contained in the Bible which contains alll that is neccessary for salvation according to this axiom I've heard so often?

They are hoodwinked or bewitched as Paul puts it in his letter to the Galatians.

In other words you have determined that by what they believe about you they are not Christians? Are you saying that anyone who says you have to be a Trinitarian to be a Christian is not a Christian? The opposite end of the spectrum. This would seem to contradict ginger's view that it doesn't matter.

Regarding 1st quote:

No I did not say that that all that Jesus taught is not all that important. I am saying that when you interpret what Jesus taught (and the rest of scripture) solely on an intellectual basis you will get exactly the problem I described. Doctrines of men rather than revelation of God.

The bible confirms what salvation is and how it is achieved but it does not contain all that is necessary for our salvation. Salvation is of God and it preceded the bible as we know it.

2nd quote:

Sorry if that was not clear. I meant that those who had the view about others not believing something were the ones who believed the others were not Christians etc.
Put it this way. I would not be so bold as to say of someone who accused me of an hereitical belief that they were not born again on the basis of what they say alone. But I would certainly look at their fruit to see if it was consistent with the vine – who is Christ.

 

[thessalonian]

mutzrein,

Thanks for the clarification.

I am saying that when you interpret what Jesus taught (and the rest of scripture) solely on an intellectual basis you will get exactly the problem I described. Doctrines of men rather than revelation of God.

Would you say that you have everything correct then regarding the Bible and it's understanding? If not do you have all the critical things right? What might they be? That is what is your list? I've seen many such lists. What is yours? Thanks. What are the things outside the Bible that we need to know for salvation?

Thanks again.

 

[gingercat]

You have to realize what is at stake and understand that those who say yes probably have a sincere desire to see you in heaven. Most non-trinitarians I know don't make the nature of God a requirement for the definition of a Christian. Most (though not all) trinitarians do. If trinitarian theology is correct then most likely one must be a trinitarian to be a Christian. However a part of this discussion hinges on what is and what is not essential theology. Is it okay just to believe there was once a guy named Jesus who did some good things we are to imitate, or do you have to dot your theoogica I's and cross your theological t's. There are views everywhere in between. Catholicism has actually a third view on this that I won't get in to here as it would seriously derail the thread.

In the end it is the truth that will matter. If you think you have it don't sweat it. If you don't know for sure, you better do some searching.

blessings

Thes,

When I was in another forum, someone questioned about whether Holy Spirit is a person or not, I commented that it is not so important either way then she called me I am not Christian or something like that.

Some denomination believe that if you don't believe OSAS theology you are heretical. It is just absurd!

Thanks for giving more flesh to your question. I have to ask you something and I ask it with all seriousness with regard to you position, not desiring to offend but for reflection. By what authority do you say that something regarding the nature of who God is or isn't is important. What is your list of important doctrines and by what authority do you say that your list is the authoritative one by which if everyone follows they will be okay in the end? What makes your authority greater than this person you were having the discussion with? Please take this in the tone of discussion.

Blessings

Well, I believe in Jesus and follow Him by reading the New Testament. I may not understand everything what's in the Bible, but I belive I know very basic what we should be doing as his follower. I follow my concience which I believe comes from Him. I will not let anyone intimidate me of my faith.

 

[mutzrein]

mutzrein,

Thanks for the clarification.

I am saying that when you interpret what Jesus taught (and the rest of scripture) solely on an intellectual basis you will get exactly the problem I described. Doctrines of men rather than revelation of God.

Would you say that you have everything correct then regarding the Bible and it's understanding? If not do you have all the critical things right? What might they be? That is what is your list? I've seen many such lists. What is yours? Thanks. What are the things outside the Bible that we need to know for salvation?

Thanks again.

No I don't have a list. Lists are used by those who want to intellectualise things. If you want to know if I believe something in particular, ask me and I will tell you - and I will give you reason for my belief.

Cheers

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus warned us of false Christ, jsut any ole Jesus won't do.

For example the mormon Jesus a fake, trust in the fake and you will end in hell.

Sorry but that is the way it is

You don't have to apologise - you haven't done anything wrong.

I am not a mormon Henry so I don't know what a Mormon Jesus is. What's the difference between the Mormon's Jesus and your one?

 

[Jay T]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

The Bible is like a chain.
It takes many links in a chain.
Just one link, does not make a chain.

 

[thessalonian]

mutzrein,

Thanks for the clarification.

I am saying that when you interpret what Jesus taught (and the rest of scripture) solely on an intellectual basis you will get exactly the problem I described. Doctrines of men rather than revelation of God.

Would you say that you have everything correct then regarding the Bible and it's understanding? If not do you have all the critical things right? What might they be? That is what is your list? I've seen many such lists. What is yours? Thanks. What are the things outside the Bible that we need to know for salvation?

Thanks again.

No I don't have a list. Lists are used by those who want to intellectualise things. If you want to know if I believe something in particular, ask me and I will tell you - and I will give you reason for my belief.

Cheers

Do you have everything infallibly correct regarding the scriptures? If not, which things are you in error on? Are they critical things? :-?

 

[thessalonian]

mutzrein,

Thanks for the clarification.

I am saying that when you interpret what Jesus taught (and the rest of scripture) solely on an intellectual basis you will get exactly the problem I described. Doctrines of men rather than revelation of God.

Would you say that you have everything correct then regarding the Bible and it's understanding? If not do you have all the critical things right? What might they be? That is what is your list? I've seen many such lists. What is yours? Thanks. What are the things outside the Bible that we need to know for salvation?

Thanks again.

No I don't have a list. Lists are used by those who want to intellectualise things. If you want to know if I believe something in particular, ask me and I will tell you - and I will give you reason for my belief.

Cheers

Do you have everything infallibly correct regarding the scriptures? If not, which things are you in error on? Are they critical things? :-?

 

[stovebolts]

Good question with many many answers.

Theology is man's understanding on scripture. Good theology is considered orthodox while bad theology is called heresy.

Heresy is a part of theology. Since the first century church, there have been misunderstandings or new idea's and philosophies that have tried to enter the church. As a result, doctrines emerged to combat the heresy. (The Apostiles Creed in the second century is an example of one professing his faith at baptism which later morphed and expanded into the Niceen Creed of the third century)

When you see two 'christians' fighting, it is because they are attempting to prove thier theology and as we all know, pride can blind us at times...

That aside, doctrine is very important, and that is one reason of many why people argue it.

Hope this helps.

In Christ,
Jeff

I guess I did not make myself clear. How about trinity? Is it really a requirement of Christianity? ( I don't think so.)

Hello Gingercat,

It seems I have put myself in an awkward position, but your question is valid and thus, it deserves an answer.

You will not find the words trinity in Holy Scripture to my knowledge. That being said, you will not find many words in the Bible that are used here and there to describe our Lord and what He did for mankind.

So it appears that you are asking me if one must believe in the Trinity to require salvation. I can only answer you by saying that it would be bad theology to disagree in the Trinity.

Let me ask you five question to which I hope you will answer me.
1. Do you believe in God the Father? Yes or No?
2. Do you believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, conceived by God's spirit? Yes or No?
3. Do you believe that Christ fully died on the Cross and that he was raised on the third day? Yes or No?
4. Do you believe he is now sitting at the right hand side of God? Yes or No?
5. Do you believe that he sent the Holy Spirit after he was seated at the right hand of God? Yes or No ?

This is the first part of Theology, asking the right questions. The second part of theology is finding the answers where scripture supports a thought without creating a dichotomy.

What I'd like you to take a look at is this. Believing in Christ is the first step in salvation. If you believe, you will obey Christ words, not as a work, but from the rest that the spirit brings you as you labor to please our Lord. How you view God, will be how you view calvery and thus, how you allow the Holy Spirit to dwell within you.

You can be a luke warm christian, you can be a foolish christian, you can be an intellegent christian, you can be a legalistic christian and you can be a holy christian among many traits that christians carry. But what it comes down to is the willingness to give honor and glory to God.

No, I don't believe that you have to believe in the Trinity to be saved, but I believe it would be bad theology not to simply because it reduces who God is in all of his fullness and Glory.