Questions for every one

[Imagican]

Oh, and let me offer this, Christ came to offer Salvation to ALL men, (and women), NOT one 'group' of them. Denomintions are nothing more than 'separatist' that devide. And the Bible does NOT say that Christ came for all men that follow a particular denomination. There is NO mention of denomination in this statement. And Paul didn't even believe in Christ when he was blinded by His Glory and shown the truth. NO other man, men or churches brought this understanding to Paul.

 

[stovebolts]

gingercat,

It is fine, actually it is good that you disagree because it tells me that you are thinking, and not simply following. I commend and applaude you.

Now, let me ask you. Where does faith come from? Scripture speaks of two different types of faith. Our faith and Christ's faith. Now, consider this.

Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say unto this mountain, Remove from here to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Faith, I believe this comes from our spirit so from your last post, you are correct. But let me ask, how do we limit our spirit? Simply through dis belief...

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

Luke 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hard it is for those that have riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive your sight: your faith has saved you.

In each instance, they were looking forward and outward to Christ... and their spirits met.

And again,
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I really must run now, kids are up and I've got a Camaro to work on today.

May God bless you today.

BTW, in my last post, I should have said, "Self Seeking Pride", for there is nothing wrong with pride when it looks outward.


It was nice seeing you agian my Sister in Christ, Heidi.

Jeff

I EDITED THIS BECAUSE I TRANSPOSED 42 WITH 24 :

 

[gingercat]

Now, let me ask you. Where does faith come from? Scripture speaks of two different types of faith. Our faith and Christ's faith. Now, consider this.

Jeff,

I still keep mine. Our faith will grow because of our seeking heart. He will give us more spirit if we keep ask Him. That's why He says to continue to seek Him.

Our spirit is ourselves and He will help us to grow when and if we continually go after Him.

hitomi

 

[stovebolts]

I still keep mine. Our faith will grow because of our seeking heart. He will give us more spirit if we keep ask Him. That's why He says to continue to seek Him.

Our spirit is ourselves and He will help us to grow when and if we continually go after Him.

hitomi

Not sure what hitomi is... perhaps you can clarify. BTW, kids are eating, not sure how long I can hold him off.

Imagician, I am not ignoring you. Few understand that the 1st century church was ran by the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until the second century when bishops were granted rights by the church to forgive sins ... I understand why they did this, but you are correct in what you stated in your last post...

gingercat,
I dont' know if I would say that he 'gives us more'. I suppose it all depends on what view your looking at and I dont really want to bore you with that comment at the moment. From one view, I agree 100%, from another, we could add to it.

That being said, one aspect might just be that our spirt is whole and God's spirit is whole... it's simply a matter of peeling back the aberations to get to it... know what I mean?


Gotta run...

 

[gingercat]

Jeff, hitomi is my name

We have to agree to diagree on our spirit.

 

[John the Baptist]

***
I am not gingercat. But there is nothing of created man that is eternal! If you are saying that there is, how would that differ from satan's lie that ye will not die? See man's ending if he is lost in Obadiah 1:16. ---John
***

I'm not asking because I don't know - I thought if I could develop a train of thought here, you may come to an understanding of the spirit of man.

Regards

_______

After reading Obadiah 1:16 you still do not know?? :o K!
---John

 

[gingercat]

Thank you, John.

 

[John the Baptist]

Oh, and let me offer this, Christ came to offer Salvation to ALL men,

***
John here: Very true so far! :
***

(and women), NOT one 'group' of them. Denomintions are nothing more than 'separatist' that devide.

***
Full of holes here! See Matthew 10:34-38. And Revelation 18:4 finds that it is an eternal Life or death decision!
***

And the Bible does NOT say that Christ came for all men that follow a particular denomination. There is NO mention of denomination in this statement. And Paul didn't even believe in Christ when he was blinded by His Glory and shown the truth. NO other man, men or churches brought this understanding to Paul.

***
Here again you 'miss' the Truth! where did Christ [send] Blind Saul?? Why did Christ not just speak the Word Himself for Saul to receive his sight? And what did Saul do when he went to the New Fold that Christ had started up before He left earth?? Matthew 18:15-18 All the rest is there in Acts 9:6 & Acts 9:18. Take some time to read the Lord's commision to the 'church' in Matthew 28:18-20, don't miss verse 20! : And Holy Spirit 'LED' means what? Romans 8:14 :fadein:
***

 

[servindalord]

Doctrine

In the bible, We are taught to repent and believe. The word believe has a two part meaning. A Belief of the facts, and faith in Jesus as both Savior and Lord. Certain doctrines are biblical fact. The doctrine of Jesus' death, burial, and bodily resurrection are fact, and must be held to by every Christian. The teaching of the trinity is seen in Scripture and "I and the Father are One" Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, both used. The Spirit Dwells in you, Jesus dwells in you. God dwells in you. All are God in three persons, that is why scripture uses ach name interchangebly at time, yet all three at times as well.

 

[mutzrein]

[quote="John the Baptist"22ca]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

******
Hi, John here: What makes ONE A BORN AGAIN Christian is the total acceptance of the Divine. Where one is at after that will bring them into Unity of all Truth if one follows the Holy Spirits Leading! Romans 8:14

[God is the one who tells us what we are to do.] (Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16-17 for starters) It is our life work to grow up into Christ. :fadein: See Ecclesiastes 12:13-14. And we are safe to save as we follow on in Obedience, regardless of who we are or what denomination that we are now in, in the process.

John - what do you by acceptance of the Divine?

Give me a little more to work on OK? ---John[/quote22ca]

Hi John

You said, "What makes ONE A BORN AGAIN Christian is the total acceptance of the Divine."

So I ask, What do you mean by total acceptance of the Divine

 

[John the Baptist]

[quote="John the Baptist":47821]

Why do some denominations believe that if we dont accept their theology, like trinity we are not Christian?

I believe Jesus is son of God and Savior of the world; but why this is not good enough?

Thank you.

******
Hi, John here: What makes ONE A BORN AGAIN Christian is the total acceptance of the Divine. Where one is at after that will bring them into Unity of all Truth if one follows the Holy Spirits Leading! Romans 8:14

[God is the one who tells us what we are to do.] (Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16-17 for starters) It is our life work to grow up into Christ. :fadein: See Ecclesiastes 12:13-14. And we are safe to save as we follow on in Obedience, regardless of who we are or what denomination that we are now in, in the process.

John - what do you by acceptance of the Divine?

Give me a little more to work on OK? ---John

Hi John

You said, "What makes ONE A BORN AGAIN Christian is the total acceptance of the Divine."

So I ask, What do you mean by total acceptance of the Divine[/quote:47821]

*****
Hi, John here:
Adam was tested while Perfect. He had the provisions created in him to become Mature! (why was he tested?) His un/perfect Maturity that God did not create, needed to be developed by Obedience. He was saved under the Godheads Eternal Covenant. Yet, he was totaly FREE as long as he remained sinless. Hebrews 13:20 (Royal Universal Law)

After sin, he (we) needed to be Born Again. This required TOTAL SPIRITUAL DEATH to his himself. (I call it Spiritual suicide) I GIVE UP LORD! Then all of the necessary provisions for staying 'IN CHRIST' (Romans 8:1) are again 'Given' only to the ones who fully submit to the Eternal Covenant Conditions. They accept the baptismal 'commitment'! That of DEATH!! Total Burial, and a resurrected Born Again New LIFE! OK? (but no games, it takes a complete I give it up Lord!) There is NO OTHER WAY! Acts 4:12 ='s Matthew 10:38-39!

By one being in this New Born Again [frame] of mind, God can [only] now do something with Him! Hebrews 10:15-16. Remember that the Eternal Covenant is under the MERCY SEAT!(In Heavens Throne Room) See Revelation 11:19 & even Revelation 22:8-9

See if that helps??
--John

 

[Imagican]

Oh, and let me offer this, Christ came to offer Salvation to ALL men,

***
John here: Very true so far! :
***

(and women), NOT one 'group' of them. Denomintions are nothing more than 'separatist' that divide.

***
Full of holes here! See Matthew 10:34-38. And Revelation 18:4 finds that it is an eternal Life or death decision!
***

I ask that you show me just ONE hole in my statement. I agree about the life and death decision, but please tell me EXACTLY which denomination I should choose to follow John? Do you know which one is the 'right' one. I contend that there can be ONLY ONE. If there are 'differences' in denominations, then there can be ONLY ONE that is correct. Which one is it my friend?

And the Bible does NOT say that Christ came for all men that follow a particular denomination. There is NO mention of denomination in this statement. And Paul didn't even believe in Christ when he was blinded by His Glory and shown the truth. NO other man, men or churches brought this understanding to Paul.

***
Here again you 'miss' the Truth! where did Christ [send] Blind Saul?? Why did Christ not just speak the Word Himself for Saul to receive his sight? And what did Saul do when he went to the New Fold that Christ had started up before He left earth?? Matthew 18:15-18 All the rest is there in Acts 9:6 & Acts 9:18. Take some time to read the Lord's commision to the 'church' in Matthew 28:18-20, don't miss verse 20! : And Holy Spirit 'LED' means what? Romans 8:14 :fadein:
***

I am confused as the the 'truth' that you say that I missed? Please don't tell me that you are saying that Paul's understanding came from 'other men'. Paul was feared by the existing Christians until he was able to prove himself an ally. Therefore there was NO ONE to teach him other than the HOLY SPIRIT.

The Church, YES. But Paul is gone and I hope that there are none that would offer that there is another capable of filling his shoes now.

I don't know what 'part' of the truth you have indicated that I have missed. I have offered NO slandering of THE CHURCH. All I have offered is the 'truth' concerning churches. And we were NEVER told to gather in a specific place with a group of people that had decided to create their 'own' Word that separated them from other Christians through their doctrine. THIS is what I see as being the problem with churches. That and the fact that they have mostly become businesses today instead of what THE CHURCH was 'supposed' to be. THE CHURCH is NOTHING more than 'those that believe and follow Christ'. Nothing more, nothing less. Yet our modern churches have become 'their own entity'. Encouraging the worship of a structure and those that control it. Simply look at the churches now days and it's easy to see the 'truth'. And that truth is that they have become 'people pleasers' rather than God pleasers. They teach much more 'self' than God or Christ. They perpetuate 'false' teachings and insist that one must be reliant upon them rather than placing their faith and trust in God and His Son.

Perhaps you have 'bought into' this farce that is what we now call church. I however have not. Everything that I have witnessed in the churches is nothing more than what appears to be an 'act'. People 'pretending' to be Christians. I am quite sure that there are some 'true' Christians that are members, but the majority that I have met and observed are no different than the rest of the world.

Now, what part of what I have offered is NOT true?

I'm not attacking John, I just haven't bought into this church thing. I am certainly a member of Christ's Church, the body of those that accept and 'try' to follow Him. But I am all but 'anti-churches'. I've seen the 'game' that they play and I personally feel that it 'takes away' from Christ much more than it honors Him.

Many have accepted the teachings of our churches. Most of what they teach however is NOT Biblical and concerned more with teaching it's members to be reliant upon 'them'. Businesses must have customers and do everything within their means to 'please' their customers. This is NOT what the Bible teaches us that THE CHURCH is or should be. Therefore, since it's not Biblical nor obvious in it's intent to 'teach the truth', I reject it's offering that it has any merit that makes a difference. And quite possible, if there is a difference, this could be one that is detrimental rather than beneficial.

 

[Imagican]

Re: Doctrine

In the bible, We are taught to repent and believe. The word believe has a two part meaning. A Belief of the facts, and faith in Jesus as both Savior and Lord. Certain doctrines are biblical fact. The doctrine of Jesus' death, burial, and bodily resurrection are fact, and must be held to by every Christian. The teaching of the trinity is seen in Scripture and "I and the Father are One" Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, both used. The Spirit Dwells in you, Jesus dwells in you. God dwells in you. All are God in three persons, that is why scripture uses ach name interchangebly at time, yet all three at times as well.

I accept that you accept these beliefs. I don't. Trinity is NOT revealed to me in the Bible and I don't believe that it would to you either had you NOT been taught this by your church or some other man. NOT a SINGLE apostle, nor Christ Himself teach a 'trinity'. The Jews, (God's chosen people), know nothing of 'your trinity'. Wow, that's amazing, that God would hide this 'so important' information from His CHOSEN. I agree that they have denied and refused to accept Christ as their Savior, but they still look for and await the messiah, and in their understanding there is NO 'trinity'.

And if all churches were following the Word they would ALL have the SAME doctrine. And if one simply follows the Word, there is NO NEED for the word 'doctrine' to begin with. Doctrine=separation, otherwise ALL churches would be teaching the 'same thing', the Word of God without all the 'man-made' doctrine.

 

[mutzrein]

Re: Doctrine

In the bible, We are taught to repent and believe. The word believe has a two part meaning. A Belief of the facts, and faith in Jesus as both Savior and Lord. Certain doctrines are biblical fact. The doctrine of Jesus' death, burial, and bodily resurrection are fact, and must be held to by every Christian. The teaching of the trinity is seen in Scripture and "I and the Father are One" Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, both used. The Spirit Dwells in you, Jesus dwells in you. God dwells in you. All are God in three persons, that is why scripture uses ach name interchangebly at time, yet all three at times as well.

And then there is John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you . . . "

So if I am in Him and he in me what part of the God-head am I? Taking it a tad too far do you reckon? So do you see the problem?

I can also say that I and my (earthly) father are one. I do what my father tells me to do and I say what he tells me to say. He showed me the things that I do and I do them to please him. So he lives through me. I am in him and he in me. So I must be my father and He must be me. Isn't it strange how we intellectualise these things in order to 'prove' a doctrine that scripture does not teach.

Biblical fact? Not for me.

 

[stovebolts]

Jeff, hitomi is my name

We have to agree to diagree on our spirit.

Very well, it has been nice chatting with you anyhow.

Let me just leave you with this one last scripture in the context of our conversation.

1 Corinthians 6:20 For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 7:23 You are bought with a price; be not the servants of men.

Now ask yourself, who are you serving? Do you see how selfish our thinking is?

Peace be with you Hitomi, keep seeking and asking.
Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being
will flow rivers of living water,'" (John 7:38 NASB)

In Christ,
Jeff

 

[gingercat]

Many have accepted the teachings of our churches. Most of what they teach however is NOT Biblical and concerned more with teaching it's members to be reliant upon 'them'. Businesses must have customers and do everything within their means to 'please' their customers. This is NOT what the Bible teaches us that THE CHURCH is or should be. Therefore, since it's not Biblical nor obvious in it's intent to 'teach the truth', I reject it's offering that it has any merit that makes a difference. And quite possible, if there is a difference, this could be one that is detrimental rather than beneficial.


End of quote;

thank you imagican,

You stated eloquently about what is going on about the organized churches. It is awful that so many churchgoers fingerpoint at the people who don't attend church accusing them of not Christian or not walking with the Lord. How far from the truth. I decided not to attend the church building becasue I find them not biblical. Their excuses are "no church is perfect". Imperfection is not the problem. The problem with them is because I dont believe they are doing their best to follow the Bible. Their goal is to please the majority and not the Bible's teachings. Result of their practice is obvious too. That's why they dont want to dicuss fruit of the Christianity and all they want to do is debate the theology. As longas you are debating and quoting the Bible you are accepted.

We know by our fruit if we are true followers or not and churches don't want to talk about it. If you do you will be comdemned without exception.

Most churches are closing their eyes from the truth and reality of what is going on.

 

[stovebolts]

Yes Gingercat and Imagicain, what you say is true.. so, does all that make any of you any better of a Christian? I didn't think so.

It amazes me how whe can build one another up by negativity of the evils of others, as opposed to the plain Good News of Christ our savior.

It is fine to say that this is wrong or that is wrong, but to esteem each other through the downfall of an institution? Am I just seeing this wrong?

Enough of my soap box. (I'm being selfish)

 

[gingercat]

Now ask yourself, who are you serving? Do you see how selfish our thinking is?

end of quote,


Jeff, this is a basic and excellent question but most of us are not thinking much.

You see Jeff, His followers are supposed to be serving God. Do you see this in the majority of the churches? I don't think so, from the fruit.

Anyway, that's why our spirit has to be changed and grow. It should never stay the same if Jesus' Holy Spirit is in us. Anything of us should be changed to be like Jesus.

 

[gingercat]

It amazes me how whe can build one another up by negativity of the evils of others, as opposed to the plain Good News of Christ our savior.

end of quote,

Jeff, do you realize there is a big difference between imperfection and hypocricy?

Imperfection is innocent but hypocricy is not! That's what is going on in the most christian community.

The narrow is the road that leads to life and only a few find it. Why do we have so many churches and churchgoers in free countries? It is because they are not telling the wholetruth about what it takes to follow Jesus. If they do, they lose the most of their congregation. They dont want to lose their congregation. This kind of churches are not Jesus' Chruch.

If the congregation leave because of the whole truth, then they are not fit to be His followers.

 

[stovebolts]

Now ask yourself, who are you serving? Do you see how selfish our thinking is?

end of quote,


Jeff, this is a basic and excellent question but most of us are not thinking much.

Yes, most cannot get past the basic's...

You see Jeff, His followers are supposed to be serving God. Do you see this in the majority of the churches? I don't think so, from the fruit.

Anyway, that's why our spirit has to be changed and grow. It should never stay the same if Jesus' Holy Spirit is in us. Anything of us should be changed to be like Jesus.

Again, You state that "if Jesus' Holy Spirit is in us" in us? In us as in seperate from us? How can you be filled with something and not have it become a part of YOU? It's not oil and water... it's water... and how in the world can you seperate water from water? This is what makes up the ekklesia.

And from that view, we peel back our spirit, layer by layer...