[_ Old Earth _] Questions for Young Earth Creationists

[Jimbob]

So, in other words, it's not in chronological order?

 

[unred typo]

So, in other words, it's not in chronological order?

I wouldn't say that exactly. In other words, it may take you down a few rabbit trails. :wink:

 

[Jimbob]

Are you just saying this, or is it agreed upon by any authorities (Churches, clerics, scholars, etc.) ?

Because if it's the former, it's not exactly honest debating to arbitrarily switch around timeframes whenever a contradiction comes up.

 

[unred typo]

Are you just saying this, or is it agreed upon by any authorities (Churches, clerics, scholars, etc.) ?

Because if it's the former, it's not exactly honest debating to arbitrarily switch around timeframes whenever a contradiction comes up.

I’m not an authority (Church, cleric, scholar, etc.) but I’m not ‘just saying this.’ Neither am I interested in debating. I think of this as an honest exchange of ideas. There may be contradictions in the Bible that can’t be explained. I just haven’t found any yet. Maybe you have a low threshold for contradictionary pain. How do you ever get through the newspaper?

 

[Jimbob]

I'm just saying that if so many people are stating the Bible is supposedly 'infallible' and absolute truth, then it obviously shouldn't have contradictions (which it does), and I'm just trying to avoid any dishonest strategies such as arbitrarily changing the chronological order of passages to help remove contradictions. I'm not accusing you of doing this, I'm just saying that it's a possibility, so I'm trying to establish a clear frame of reference with regards to chronology.

 

[unred typo]

Jimbob wrote:

I'm just saying that if so many people are stating the Bible is supposedly 'infallible' and absolute truth, then it obviously shouldn't have contradictions (which it does), and I'm just trying to avoid any dishonest strategies such as arbitrarily changing the chronological order of passages to help remove contradictions. I'm not accusing you of doing this, I'm just saying that it's a possibility, so I'm trying to establish a clear frame of reference with regards to chronology.

I see. I don’t believe the Bible is infallible but I do believe it is more reliable than the morning paper. That said, I think this particular ‘contradiction’ is bogus and it’s a waste of time to pursue literary idiosyncrasies. It seems to be the writer’s style to make broader statements and then flesh it out later with more details.

 

[reznwerks]

order

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What Rez has done is find fault simply for the joy of finding fault. Pick up any book and you will see examples of this literary style. An American history book may begin the history by saying the slaves were freed by Abraham Lincoln and then go into the story of how Abraham Lincoln began as a poor boy himself.

The problem with your line of thinking is that modern history books are written in a matter of days or at least all the info that is going into it exists and is known. If you've ever had work done on your car and read the bill it reads from the top down in order the work was performed. The bible is or is claimed to be written in chronological order and it took thousands of years to do so. How could it have such glaring inconsistancies and be considered relevant or the word of God? Surly if God caused the book to be written wouldn't he have caused it to be written accurately?

 

[unred typo]

The problem with your line of thinking is that modern history books are written in a matter of days or at least all the info that is going into it exists and is known. If you've ever had work done on your car and read the bill it reads from the top down in order the work was performed. The bible is or is claimed to be written in chronological order and it took thousands of years to do so. How could it have such glaring inconsistancies and be considered relevant or the word of God? Surly if God caused the book to be written wouldn't he have caused it to be written accurately?

Right. Good example. If you have work done on your car, the bill may have the total at the top and then below, it might have been broken down to parts and labor before it is totaled. It doesn’t mean there are not parts and labor in the figure at the top, or is it an error of double billing. If you refuse to pay it because you don’t understand why they are trying to confuse you with glaring inconsistencies such as amount due, parts, then labor, then both parts and labor again at the bottom, you may find yourself in court. Your excuses before God won’t cut it either. Stop trying to find reasons why you don’t have to believe it. No one is making you believe it. Believe what you want but the check isn’t in the mail and a day will come when the balance is due in full.

 

[unred typo]

Reznwerks wrote:

The bible is or is claimed to be written in chronological order and it took thousands of years to do so. How could it have such glaring inconsistancies and be considered relevant or the word of God? Surly if God caused the book to be written wouldn't he have caused it to be written accurately?

I just noticed something. The Bible does not claim to be written in chronological order, no more than any history makes those claims. It is written with the literary style of various authors. The first 5 books may or may not have been written by the same person but it could not have been just Moses since it records the death of Moses at the end. I think these records are somewhat like a family tree that recorded in a family Bible. The one who starts writing down the tree may not be the first one listed and it is passed down through the generations and each successive descendant adds his knowledge to the original.

These were undeniably records that were considered to be vital and historical and were kept as accurately as humanly possible. The creation story in the Bible was probably all written by the same person, who probably had read the book of Jasher or the records that the book of Jasher was based on, since Jasher takes us up to the time of Joshua, well after Moses. The style is consistent and the flow is generally chronological although some parts are more of an overview followed by more details.

The stories were probably written originally by Enoch or another historian of the time before the flood and retold and written on skins and passed down from father to son. Moses no doubt read the accounts or heard them from his mother, sister, Miriam, or brother, Aaron. There may have been a copy in the Egyptian libraries that had survived from the time of Babel when their ancestors traveled to Egypt . Those who wrote down the information were inspired to do so by God, who wanted us to have an idea of where we came from and who he is.

As for being the word of God, the Bible is the book of the word of God. Some of the truth has been lost because the languages have changed… evolved, you may say. God’s word is the communication of God to us. It is truth, and nothing but the truth. Our retelling of it may have errors or be colored by our misconceptions and prejudices. Some believers worship the Bible as if it were God himself in black and white. This is no less than ignorance and idolatry.