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Excerpt from Wikapedia article on Rob Bell in article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Bell .
And an excerpt from another article on Rob Bell and the Emergent "church" at http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/ ... ospel.html .
This is actually what Emergent Guru Brian McLaren was talking about concerning his generous–way too overly generous–orthodoxy, which is in reality everything but orthodox. But as usual in these kinds of cultic philosophies Jesus stands right in the way because in opposition to wishy-washy spirituality the Master teaches that flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And what follows now is a brief look at Rob Bell’s spiritualized universal view of the atonement from Velvet Elvis:
- Criticisms
While Rob Bell has never claimed an association with the movement, Bell's critics often associate him with the Emergent Church movement, pointing out that Bell teaches that the church should embrace mystery and doubt rather than certainty. In his writings, he prefers to view the Bible as one of many possible sources of truth and he points out that many different religious traditions can be useful in finding a path to God. “This is not just the same old message with new methods. We’re rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life.â€Â[3] His teaching is often characterized as postmodern. He does not believe that all the answers can be found in "Scripture alone." 'Brickianity' is the term he uses to describe churches that emphasize doctrine. He writes that doctrines should be more like springs, helping people jump joyfully toward God.[4] Some conservative Christians have claimed that Bell's teaching of the gospel as described in the book Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith is flawed and compromises many essential Christian doctrines along with the basic message of the gospel.[5]
Immediately following the release of his book Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith, some evangelicals criticized some comments made in the book, especially those focused on the virgin birth of Jesus and the concept of the Trinity:[list:9fefa]
"What if tomorrow someone digs up definitive proof that Jesus had a real, earthly, biological father named Larry, and archaeologists find Larry's tomb and do DNA samples and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the virgin birth was really just a bit of mythologizing the Gospel writers threw in to appeal to the followers of the Mithra and Dionysian religious cults that were hugely popular at the time of Jesus, whose gods had virgin births? But what if as you study the origin of the word virgin, you discover that the word virgin in the gospel of Matthew actually comes from the book of Isaiah, and then you find out that in the Hebrew language at that time, the word virgin could mean several things. And what if you discover that in the first century being "born of a virgin" also referred to a child whose mother became pregnant the first time she had intercourse?" (Velvet Elvis, p. 26)
And an excerpt from another article on Rob Bell and the Emergent "church" at http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/ ... ospel.html .
The New Deimproved Crossless Christianity
The question that needs to asked is just what kind of Christianity are you “communicating†there Rob when you leave out the central element–the Cross of Jesus Christ? Now in the interest of fairness after my initial article Patrick did clarify his words a bit in a comment at Verum Serum:[list:9fefa]I like a lot of what Bell says. I saw him speak last week in Indy and it was pretty good. My only wish is that he would be more cross-centered.
This is actually what Emergent Guru Brian McLaren was talking about concerning his generous–way too overly generous–orthodoxy, which is in reality everything but orthodox. But as usual in these kinds of cultic philosophies Jesus stands right in the way because in opposition to wishy-washy spirituality the Master teaches that flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And what follows now is a brief look at Rob Bell’s spiritualized universal view of the atonement from Velvet Elvis:
So this reality, this forgiveness, this reconciliation, is true for everybody. Paul insisted that when Jesus died on the cross he was reconciling “all things, in heaven and on earth, to God.†All things everywhere. This reality then isn’t something we make true about ourselves by doing something. It is already true. Our choice is to live in this new reality or cling to a reality of our own making. (146, emphasis mine)
jgredline
Member
Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Rob Bell, Mars Hill and Velvet Elvis
â€â€Repainting the Christian Faith
"We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life."â€â€Rob Bell, Teaching Pastor Mars Hill Bible Church from The Emergent Mystique, CT
"He [Bell]described breath as a form of prayer and urged people to relax and "breathe out" all of their anger and stress from the past week."
â€â€David Crumm, Getting to the root of religion
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/robbell.htm
Rob Bell, Mars Hill and Velvet Elvis
â€â€Repainting the Christian Faith
"We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life."â€â€Rob Bell, Teaching Pastor Mars Hill Bible Church from The Emergent Mystique, CT
"He [Bell]described breath as a form of prayer and urged people to relax and "breathe out" all of their anger and stress from the past week."
â€â€David Crumm, Getting to the root of religion
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/robbell.htm
jgredline
Member
ROB BELL AND HIS EMERGENT CULT
ROB BELL AND HIS EMERGENT CULT
And Elijah came near to all the people and said, "How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him." And the people did not answer him a word. (1 King 18:21, ESV)
In commenting on my article Rob Bell and the Emergent Myth at Slice of Laodicea, a young man named rob advances the warped and toxic points that will follow. Men and women, as humbly as I know how, one of the teachers the Master used in training me was Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989). Not exactly known for his tact, Dr. Martin was the foremost authority in the world on religious cults having their origin in the United States. Following him as he followed Jesus I labeled this Emergent Church as a cult months ago. If anyone had any doubt left that this rebellion against the authority of the Bible, which is the inerrant and infallible Word of the one true and living God, has now grown into a cult–complete with its own leaders–they need only read these tragic words from rob.
Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me. And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, “Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?â€Â
“Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, ‘Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols…’ â€Â
What Is It Going To Take To Open Your Eyes?
Now here is what this poor young man, whose mind has been confused by these Emergent vipers had to say about my article. The response I posted to him at Slice will follow. This is presented with the prayer that we will finally rise up O men and women of God and say: Enough! Enough of this neo-liberal cult of the Emergent Church being allowed to operate within the walls of our Lord’s Own Church!
May God use this to inspire us to continue to stand against the false teachings of seducing spirits like Brian McLaren and his friend Living Spiritual Teacher Richard Foster and Rob Bell and Tony Jones and their things taught by demons such as:
I believe that people have been missing the point of the bible and rob bell has brought it back in a new way. That new way is seeing scripture through jewish eyes. He is reinventing how to do church. Being a theology major, Rob bell has been a big inspiration on how to bring the text alive and get rid of a fundelmentalist view of the bible that causes hate in are world. When something is new people are scared and don't want to listen. It won't be long till the post modern church will arrive and when it does I believe you will see a new kind of Christian not one who judges and hates but one who loves and devotes his life to God in any way possible. The revolution is coming and YahWeh is on its side just how God was on the side of your churches when they started. New times call for new ways to experience God. We can thank Rob Bell for many of these new ways. rob
rob,
My heart is so sad to hear you express the foolishness you have just stated. I know it's not your fault; it's what you've been fed. But this is exactly the thing that I have been trying to alert the church to and a huge part of the Emergent myth. Any of us who have a working knowledge of Hebrew can tell you that your view of Bell is in correct. Rather the Bible judges him here:
For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. (1 Timothy 1:6-7)
Yes, Bell does a lot of "seeing scripture through jewish eyes," but you need to understand that one must be born again to actually understand those Scriptures. And in Bell's prattle he pulls from a lot unregenrate views of the Holy Scripture.
Rob you say: "Being a theology major, Rob Bell has been a big inspiration on how to bring the text alive and get rid of a fundelmentalist view of the bible that causes hate in are world." You probably won't believe what I am about to tell you, but is the very reason I so hate this Emergent rebellion! O how I am grieved that these deceivers are brainwashing bright young people to believe this kind of rubbish.
When one of dear young people makes this statement: "It won't be long till the post modern church will arrive and when it does I believe you will see a new kind of Christian not one who judges and hates but one who loves and devotes his life to God in any way possible. The revolution is coming," how can our hearts not break when listening this McLarenese skubalon. Bohemian nonsense that people like you, who just don't know better are swallowing hook, line and sinker?
And finally rob you say: "We can thank Rob Bell for many of these new ways." No my friend, all Bell and the deceivers are doing is talking you right back to repainted liberalism and reimagined Gnostic mysticism, with a twisted universalism because they don't have the guts to stand for the true Gospel.
And I tell you in the Lord that it is a pathetic shame that more evangelical leaders with clout are also so spineless that they are simply watching this kind of thing happen. Rob, there's no animosity on my part toward you, only compassion. I pray the Lord will open your eyes and if I could wake you myself, believe me I would.
Test This Emergent Cult By The Bible
Men and women, the Lord is my witness that I have been specifically trained in counter-cult apologetics and I ask you to please make the time to look more closely at what rob had just said above. And you need to know that there are a few of us in this discernment camp who can also testify that what you have just read is hardly an exception. We have many dialogues each day with those who are following this Emergent rebellion. We get letters and comments like this every single day, and most particularly this is the identical reaction every time any of us dare touch their golden Buddha Rob Bell.
In fact Rob Bell himself is quoted as saying of his critics:
“But I love everybody and you're next!†he says, giggling. “That's how I respond to criticism.â€Â
Bell is and does the unexpected. Then again, he says, so does God.
Yes, Rob; He does. And I love my Lord and since He hates what you’re doing, so I guess I’m next. You see, as a pastor-teacher Jesus tells me to – Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter (Proverbs 24:11). So it might just wipe that smirk off his face when I tell Rob that this is no game with me because little rob says things here that should be shocking to anyone who cares for young people at all:
I believe that people have been missing the point of the bible and rob bell has brought it back in a new way. That new way is seeing scripture through jewish eyes. He is reinventing how to do church. Being a theology major, Rob bell has been a big inspiration on how to bring the text alive and get rid of a fundelmentalist (sic) view of the bible that causes hate in are world.
The Designs Of A Neo-Liberal Cult Comes Emerging
Beloved, I ask you; can’t you see Satan’s hate for God’s Word and the blatant attack on Reformed theology here? I tell you in the Lord that now is the time to put down silly differences over petty labels and hear what has just been said. Just look the influence of cult leaders like Brian McLaren and Rob Bell here: “people have been missing the point of the Bible.†Yea, hath God said? The absolute first thing any cult leader does is to kick out the authority of the Bible. What do think you just read? “Rob Bell brought it back in a new way.â€Â
See the circular reasoning here. Says who? And the reply from someone caught in this cult will be to appeal to one of its leaders and say e.g. “Rob Bell has brought it back.†All he’s doing is repainting the neo-orthodox existential view of Scripture. But this will only lead right back down the same old broad road of liberalism to the Fatherhood of God, the brotherhood of man, and the neighborhood of “I pick and choose the parts of the Bible I happen to like.†And even if I have to stand alone, I defy any of these leaders of the Emergent Church cult to pick up their Bibles and refute me.
Not that they will ever win that argument which is actually with the Lord and not me anyway, but they will also have to argue with Dr. Martin’s work in Christ as well. Author of The Kingdom of the Cults, the classic book on cult apologetics, Martin also said on page 12 of his The Rise of the Cults:
A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith,…
It should be obvious to anyone God has granted eyes to see that Rob Bell and Guru Brian McLaren and the Emergent Church fit the above definition perfectly. And forget the Emergent howls of their classic hue and cry: “But we’re so divisive.†Rubbish! Because before their was “diversity†there was a day when this Emergent rebellion first began. Consider this from Herescope:
Do not be deceived. The “emerging church†movement did not spontaneously erupt. It was a well-funded and well-organized movement from its very inception. It appears to have been fashioned by a handful of corporate business leaders who wished to create a counter-cultural evangelical movement. The intended purpose appears to have been identifying and recruiting potential young leaders for comprehensive indoctrination. One of the chief outcomes has been the further degradation and deconstruction of traditional Christianity.
I’ll have more on the rotten root which gave birth to this Emergent menace to the Body of Christ another time but for now, if you really wish to understand how a young man like rob got twisted this way then you need to focus on the neo-orthodox (at best) view of Holy Scripture most–if not all–of these new breed of so-called “Christian†mystics have. I tell you the absolute Truth, while on paper these vipers may give lip service to the authority of Scripture, they should know that they only fool themselves because the Lord knows that in practice it is not unlike the apostate Church of Rome: Experience=tradition; and spiritual experience=interpretation for these new Gnostics in The Ecumenical Church of Deceit.
Perhaps you think these words are too harsh. I wonder what would the average Christian today would have said to John the Baptist? Men and women, you should know that what I have just taught has already more then been backed up by numerous other fine ministers of the Gospel, though they would not choose to speak with this much vitriol. However, this is no concern of mine because I know Who sent me. Also I am already on record e.g. Take Off The Gloves that there’s no time to play spiritual patty-cake while having pointless “conversation†with people who only reinterpret what is said.
And not only that but they also deny that anyone can know with certainty what God has said in Scripture anyway. So why in the world are we wasting any more of the Master’s time with such a fruitless tactic? Today I offer this as a plea for us to finally throw these unregenerate rebels and Spiritual Pedophiles out of God’s House!
It’s Time To Go To War
“When the principles that run against your deepest convictions begin to win the day, then the battle is your calling, and peace has become sin. You must at the price of dearest peace lay your convictions bare before friend and enemy with all the fire of your faith.†Abraham Kuyper
In closing–for now–I remind you of the great respect so many of us have for Charles Haddon Spurgeon. Then let me ask you: Why do you think these new white-washed tombs and leaders within the Emergent rebellion have such disdain for powerful men of God such as a Spurgeon? Brothers and sisters, you must awaken to the times in which you live and come to recognize these false prophets are walking in another spirit. So just what do you suppose Spurgeon would have say about this New Downgrade No-Controversy? Come here, I’ll show you:
At the present day, I am afraid that nine people out of ten do not believe in the God Who is revealed to us in the Bible. I can point you to newspapers, to periodicals, and also to pulpits by the score in which there is a new god set up to be worshipped–not the God of the Old Testament; He is said to be too strict, too severe, too stern for our modern teachers.
They shudder at the very mention of the God of the Puritans. If Jonathan Edwards were to rise from the dead, they would not listen to him for a minute; they would say that they had quite a new god since his day. But, brethren, I believe in the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob; this is my God–aye, the God Who drowned Pharoah and his host at the Red Sea and moved His people to sing, “Hallelujah!†as He did it; the God Who caused the earth to open and swallow up Korah, Dathan, and Abiram and all their company.
A terrible God is the God Whom I adore–He is the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, full of mercy, compassion, and grace, tender and gentle, yet just and dreadful in His holiness and terrible out of His holy places. This is the God Whom we worship, and He Who comes to Him will take Him to be his Instructor, and so shall he learn aright all that he needs to know. (At the Master’s Feet, July 18)
I’ll tell you what you can do for Christ; take up your Sword of the Spirit and follow me. O the Lord be praised; we’re finally going back up to Mount Carmel!
As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident asertions. (1 Timothy 1:3-7, NASB)
see also:
ROB BELL: GOSPEL? WHAT GOSPEL?
ROB BELL: THE ELVIS OF EMERGENT
ROB BELL: A VERY POOR CHRISTIAN “COMMUNICATORâ€Â
EMERGING WITH WHAT THE BIBLE MEANS
ROB BELL: SALVATION FANTASIES (PART 2)
ROB BELL: SALVATION FANTASIES
ROB BELL AND THE EMERGENT MYTH
THE WORLDLY WISDOM OF ROB BELL
ROB BELL FAILS THE TEST
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/ ... nd_hi.html
ROB BELL AND HIS EMERGENT CULT
And Elijah came near to all the people and said, "How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him." And the people did not answer him a word. (1 King 18:21, ESV)
In commenting on my article Rob Bell and the Emergent Myth at Slice of Laodicea, a young man named rob advances the warped and toxic points that will follow. Men and women, as humbly as I know how, one of the teachers the Master used in training me was Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989). Not exactly known for his tact, Dr. Martin was the foremost authority in the world on religious cults having their origin in the United States. Following him as he followed Jesus I labeled this Emergent Church as a cult months ago. If anyone had any doubt left that this rebellion against the authority of the Bible, which is the inerrant and infallible Word of the one true and living God, has now grown into a cult–complete with its own leaders–they need only read these tragic words from rob.
Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me. And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, “Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?â€Â
“Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, ‘Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols…’ â€Â
What Is It Going To Take To Open Your Eyes?
Now here is what this poor young man, whose mind has been confused by these Emergent vipers had to say about my article. The response I posted to him at Slice will follow. This is presented with the prayer that we will finally rise up O men and women of God and say: Enough! Enough of this neo-liberal cult of the Emergent Church being allowed to operate within the walls of our Lord’s Own Church!
May God use this to inspire us to continue to stand against the false teachings of seducing spirits like Brian McLaren and his friend Living Spiritual Teacher Richard Foster and Rob Bell and Tony Jones and their things taught by demons such as:
I believe that people have been missing the point of the bible and rob bell has brought it back in a new way. That new way is seeing scripture through jewish eyes. He is reinventing how to do church. Being a theology major, Rob bell has been a big inspiration on how to bring the text alive and get rid of a fundelmentalist view of the bible that causes hate in are world. When something is new people are scared and don't want to listen. It won't be long till the post modern church will arrive and when it does I believe you will see a new kind of Christian not one who judges and hates but one who loves and devotes his life to God in any way possible. The revolution is coming and YahWeh is on its side just how God was on the side of your churches when they started. New times call for new ways to experience God. We can thank Rob Bell for many of these new ways. rob
rob,
My heart is so sad to hear you express the foolishness you have just stated. I know it's not your fault; it's what you've been fed. But this is exactly the thing that I have been trying to alert the church to and a huge part of the Emergent myth. Any of us who have a working knowledge of Hebrew can tell you that your view of Bell is in correct. Rather the Bible judges him here:
For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. (1 Timothy 1:6-7)
Yes, Bell does a lot of "seeing scripture through jewish eyes," but you need to understand that one must be born again to actually understand those Scriptures. And in Bell's prattle he pulls from a lot unregenrate views of the Holy Scripture.
Rob you say: "Being a theology major, Rob Bell has been a big inspiration on how to bring the text alive and get rid of a fundelmentalist view of the bible that causes hate in are world." You probably won't believe what I am about to tell you, but is the very reason I so hate this Emergent rebellion! O how I am grieved that these deceivers are brainwashing bright young people to believe this kind of rubbish.
When one of dear young people makes this statement: "It won't be long till the post modern church will arrive and when it does I believe you will see a new kind of Christian not one who judges and hates but one who loves and devotes his life to God in any way possible. The revolution is coming," how can our hearts not break when listening this McLarenese skubalon. Bohemian nonsense that people like you, who just don't know better are swallowing hook, line and sinker?
And finally rob you say: "We can thank Rob Bell for many of these new ways." No my friend, all Bell and the deceivers are doing is talking you right back to repainted liberalism and reimagined Gnostic mysticism, with a twisted universalism because they don't have the guts to stand for the true Gospel.
And I tell you in the Lord that it is a pathetic shame that more evangelical leaders with clout are also so spineless that they are simply watching this kind of thing happen. Rob, there's no animosity on my part toward you, only compassion. I pray the Lord will open your eyes and if I could wake you myself, believe me I would.
Test This Emergent Cult By The Bible
Men and women, the Lord is my witness that I have been specifically trained in counter-cult apologetics and I ask you to please make the time to look more closely at what rob had just said above. And you need to know that there are a few of us in this discernment camp who can also testify that what you have just read is hardly an exception. We have many dialogues each day with those who are following this Emergent rebellion. We get letters and comments like this every single day, and most particularly this is the identical reaction every time any of us dare touch their golden Buddha Rob Bell.
In fact Rob Bell himself is quoted as saying of his critics:
“But I love everybody and you're next!†he says, giggling. “That's how I respond to criticism.â€Â
Bell is and does the unexpected. Then again, he says, so does God.
Yes, Rob; He does. And I love my Lord and since He hates what you’re doing, so I guess I’m next. You see, as a pastor-teacher Jesus tells me to – Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter (Proverbs 24:11). So it might just wipe that smirk off his face when I tell Rob that this is no game with me because little rob says things here that should be shocking to anyone who cares for young people at all:
I believe that people have been missing the point of the bible and rob bell has brought it back in a new way. That new way is seeing scripture through jewish eyes. He is reinventing how to do church. Being a theology major, Rob bell has been a big inspiration on how to bring the text alive and get rid of a fundelmentalist (sic) view of the bible that causes hate in are world.
The Designs Of A Neo-Liberal Cult Comes Emerging
Beloved, I ask you; can’t you see Satan’s hate for God’s Word and the blatant attack on Reformed theology here? I tell you in the Lord that now is the time to put down silly differences over petty labels and hear what has just been said. Just look the influence of cult leaders like Brian McLaren and Rob Bell here: “people have been missing the point of the Bible.†Yea, hath God said? The absolute first thing any cult leader does is to kick out the authority of the Bible. What do think you just read? “Rob Bell brought it back in a new way.â€Â
See the circular reasoning here. Says who? And the reply from someone caught in this cult will be to appeal to one of its leaders and say e.g. “Rob Bell has brought it back.†All he’s doing is repainting the neo-orthodox existential view of Scripture. But this will only lead right back down the same old broad road of liberalism to the Fatherhood of God, the brotherhood of man, and the neighborhood of “I pick and choose the parts of the Bible I happen to like.†And even if I have to stand alone, I defy any of these leaders of the Emergent Church cult to pick up their Bibles and refute me.
Not that they will ever win that argument which is actually with the Lord and not me anyway, but they will also have to argue with Dr. Martin’s work in Christ as well. Author of The Kingdom of the Cults, the classic book on cult apologetics, Martin also said on page 12 of his The Rise of the Cults:
A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith,…
It should be obvious to anyone God has granted eyes to see that Rob Bell and Guru Brian McLaren and the Emergent Church fit the above definition perfectly. And forget the Emergent howls of their classic hue and cry: “But we’re so divisive.†Rubbish! Because before their was “diversity†there was a day when this Emergent rebellion first began. Consider this from Herescope:
Do not be deceived. The “emerging church†movement did not spontaneously erupt. It was a well-funded and well-organized movement from its very inception. It appears to have been fashioned by a handful of corporate business leaders who wished to create a counter-cultural evangelical movement. The intended purpose appears to have been identifying and recruiting potential young leaders for comprehensive indoctrination. One of the chief outcomes has been the further degradation and deconstruction of traditional Christianity.
I’ll have more on the rotten root which gave birth to this Emergent menace to the Body of Christ another time but for now, if you really wish to understand how a young man like rob got twisted this way then you need to focus on the neo-orthodox (at best) view of Holy Scripture most–if not all–of these new breed of so-called “Christian†mystics have. I tell you the absolute Truth, while on paper these vipers may give lip service to the authority of Scripture, they should know that they only fool themselves because the Lord knows that in practice it is not unlike the apostate Church of Rome: Experience=tradition; and spiritual experience=interpretation for these new Gnostics in The Ecumenical Church of Deceit.
Perhaps you think these words are too harsh. I wonder what would the average Christian today would have said to John the Baptist? Men and women, you should know that what I have just taught has already more then been backed up by numerous other fine ministers of the Gospel, though they would not choose to speak with this much vitriol. However, this is no concern of mine because I know Who sent me. Also I am already on record e.g. Take Off The Gloves that there’s no time to play spiritual patty-cake while having pointless “conversation†with people who only reinterpret what is said.
And not only that but they also deny that anyone can know with certainty what God has said in Scripture anyway. So why in the world are we wasting any more of the Master’s time with such a fruitless tactic? Today I offer this as a plea for us to finally throw these unregenerate rebels and Spiritual Pedophiles out of God’s House!
It’s Time To Go To War
“When the principles that run against your deepest convictions begin to win the day, then the battle is your calling, and peace has become sin. You must at the price of dearest peace lay your convictions bare before friend and enemy with all the fire of your faith.†Abraham Kuyper
In closing–for now–I remind you of the great respect so many of us have for Charles Haddon Spurgeon. Then let me ask you: Why do you think these new white-washed tombs and leaders within the Emergent rebellion have such disdain for powerful men of God such as a Spurgeon? Brothers and sisters, you must awaken to the times in which you live and come to recognize these false prophets are walking in another spirit. So just what do you suppose Spurgeon would have say about this New Downgrade No-Controversy? Come here, I’ll show you:
At the present day, I am afraid that nine people out of ten do not believe in the God Who is revealed to us in the Bible. I can point you to newspapers, to periodicals, and also to pulpits by the score in which there is a new god set up to be worshipped–not the God of the Old Testament; He is said to be too strict, too severe, too stern for our modern teachers.
They shudder at the very mention of the God of the Puritans. If Jonathan Edwards were to rise from the dead, they would not listen to him for a minute; they would say that they had quite a new god since his day. But, brethren, I believe in the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob; this is my God–aye, the God Who drowned Pharoah and his host at the Red Sea and moved His people to sing, “Hallelujah!†as He did it; the God Who caused the earth to open and swallow up Korah, Dathan, and Abiram and all their company.
A terrible God is the God Whom I adore–He is the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, full of mercy, compassion, and grace, tender and gentle, yet just and dreadful in His holiness and terrible out of His holy places. This is the God Whom we worship, and He Who comes to Him will take Him to be his Instructor, and so shall he learn aright all that he needs to know. (At the Master’s Feet, July 18)
I’ll tell you what you can do for Christ; take up your Sword of the Spirit and follow me. O the Lord be praised; we’re finally going back up to Mount Carmel!
As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident asertions. (1 Timothy 1:3-7, NASB)
see also:
ROB BELL: GOSPEL? WHAT GOSPEL?
ROB BELL: THE ELVIS OF EMERGENT
ROB BELL: A VERY POOR CHRISTIAN “COMMUNICATORâ€Â
EMERGING WITH WHAT THE BIBLE MEANS
ROB BELL: SALVATION FANTASIES (PART 2)
ROB BELL: SALVATION FANTASIES
ROB BELL AND THE EMERGENT MYTH
THE WORLDLY WISDOM OF ROB BELL
ROB BELL FAILS THE TEST
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/ ... nd_hi.html
G
Guest
Guest
A 'cult' or not - one thing that is clear - is that the 'emergent' church is just the newest, latest, greatest, in an attempt to sell books and make profit.
Jeff Mills
Member
Sadly many leaders are falling under this deception. Some sites will not even alow you to post mentioning these people as they say you are bashing them. Well, if that's what they want to call it then so be it, but if I can pull just one person away from these wolves in sheep's clothing then I have succeeded. It's like the frog getting boiled slowly in the pan, people cannot see it.
jgredline
Member
One of the things that makes the emergent cult desirable is that according to brian mclaren one can be a muslim, hindu or whatever and still be a christian..
It is one of the most demonic and destructive cults around today...
Its hard to believe that a member here was trying to promote this trash....No, I am not surprised.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ht=#323647
It is one of the most demonic and destructive cults around today...
Its hard to believe that a member here was trying to promote this trash....No, I am not surprised.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ht=#323647
jgredline
Member
Here is a cool short article on this seeker friendly movement
http://www.pro4machineworks.com/Adobe/C ... church.pdf
http://www.pro4machineworks.com/Adobe/C ... church.pdf
jgredline
Member
Emergent Church
The term emergent churchrefers to a new movement among evangelical Christians that builds on a deep engagement with postmodern culture through appreciation of key components in a postmodern outlook. The emergent church is usually identified with Brian McLaren, author of A Generous Orthodoxy and identified as one of the top twenty-five leading evangelicals by Time magazine. Other emergent church leaders include Leonard Sweet, Robert Webber, Sally Morgenthaler, and Thomas Hohstadt. The movement receives its best intellectual support from Dallas Willard and the late Stan Grenz.
Robert Webber has pictured the emergent movement as a third alternative to traditional evangelicals and pragmatic evangelicals. The former term refers to an older evangelical paradigm that places emphasis on apologetics and sound doctrine. By pragmatic,Webber means the seeker-sensitive paradigm, connected most famously with Bill Hybels and Rick Warren. Emergent leaders believe that the older models of evangelical Christianity fail either because of an outdated epistemology or because of a capitulation to a consumer view of religion.
The emergent church movement embraces paradox and balances competing realities. Leonard Sweet states that our faith is ancient. Our faith is future. Were old-fashioned. Were new-fangled. Were orthodox. Were innovators. Were postmodern Christians.McLaren writes that he can be viewed as Missional, evangelical, Post/Protestant, Liberal/Conservative, Mystical/Poetic, Biblical, Charismatic/Contemplative, fundamentalist/Calvinist, Anabaptist/Anglican, Methodist, catholic, Green, Incarnational, Depressed-Yet-Hopeful, Emergent, Unfinished.
Both Charles Colson and D. A. Carson have criticized the emergent church for being too sympathetic to postmodernism and too open to relativism. These concerns are worth keeping in mind but must not be overstated. The emergent church is far more concerned to address postmodernism and relativism than to embrace either or both uncritically. Robert Webber has noted, A postmodern setting demands relationship, participation, community, symbol, servanthood and the like. The radical renorming of biblical priorities coupled with an absolute rejection of slick marketing, showy worship and phony verbal games precede the birth of an honest, genuine, authentic community passionately engaged with being the truth.
The emergent church places a great deal of emphasis upon worship in community. This arises out of an emphasis upon the relational and subjective element in Christian faith. McLaren and other emergent leaders are critical of the seeker-sensitive movement because of its alleged preoccupation with entertainment. Sally Morgenthaler argues, The new worship paradigm contends that unbelievers can respond positively to a worship that has been made culturally accessible to them; it also proposes that unbelievers come to church, not primarily to investigate the claims of Christ,but to investigate the Christ in us.
R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, gave this indictment of McLaren: Embracing the worldview of the postmodern age, he embraces relativism at the cost of clarity in matters of truth and intends to redefine Christianity for this new age, largely in terms of an eccentric mixture of elements he would take from virtually every theological position and variant.This is far too harsh and distorts McLaren. However, McLaren should be more aware of the epistemological complexities involved in his critique of traditional evangelicalism. He and other emergent leaders should also correct an implicit elitism that shows itself in the rhetoric in emergent church discourse. Of course, traditional evangelicalism has an explicit elitism that emergent leaders properly critique
The term emergent churchrefers to a new movement among evangelical Christians that builds on a deep engagement with postmodern culture through appreciation of key components in a postmodern outlook. The emergent church is usually identified with Brian McLaren, author of A Generous Orthodoxy and identified as one of the top twenty-five leading evangelicals by Time magazine. Other emergent church leaders include Leonard Sweet, Robert Webber, Sally Morgenthaler, and Thomas Hohstadt. The movement receives its best intellectual support from Dallas Willard and the late Stan Grenz.
Robert Webber has pictured the emergent movement as a third alternative to traditional evangelicals and pragmatic evangelicals. The former term refers to an older evangelical paradigm that places emphasis on apologetics and sound doctrine. By pragmatic,Webber means the seeker-sensitive paradigm, connected most famously with Bill Hybels and Rick Warren. Emergent leaders believe that the older models of evangelical Christianity fail either because of an outdated epistemology or because of a capitulation to a consumer view of religion.
The emergent church movement embraces paradox and balances competing realities. Leonard Sweet states that our faith is ancient. Our faith is future. Were old-fashioned. Were new-fangled. Were orthodox. Were innovators. Were postmodern Christians.McLaren writes that he can be viewed as Missional, evangelical, Post/Protestant, Liberal/Conservative, Mystical/Poetic, Biblical, Charismatic/Contemplative, fundamentalist/Calvinist, Anabaptist/Anglican, Methodist, catholic, Green, Incarnational, Depressed-Yet-Hopeful, Emergent, Unfinished.
Both Charles Colson and D. A. Carson have criticized the emergent church for being too sympathetic to postmodernism and too open to relativism. These concerns are worth keeping in mind but must not be overstated. The emergent church is far more concerned to address postmodernism and relativism than to embrace either or both uncritically. Robert Webber has noted, A postmodern setting demands relationship, participation, community, symbol, servanthood and the like. The radical renorming of biblical priorities coupled with an absolute rejection of slick marketing, showy worship and phony verbal games precede the birth of an honest, genuine, authentic community passionately engaged with being the truth.
The emergent church places a great deal of emphasis upon worship in community. This arises out of an emphasis upon the relational and subjective element in Christian faith. McLaren and other emergent leaders are critical of the seeker-sensitive movement because of its alleged preoccupation with entertainment. Sally Morgenthaler argues, The new worship paradigm contends that unbelievers can respond positively to a worship that has been made culturally accessible to them; it also proposes that unbelievers come to church, not primarily to investigate the claims of Christ,but to investigate the Christ in us.
R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, gave this indictment of McLaren: Embracing the worldview of the postmodern age, he embraces relativism at the cost of clarity in matters of truth and intends to redefine Christianity for this new age, largely in terms of an eccentric mixture of elements he would take from virtually every theological position and variant.This is far too harsh and distorts McLaren. However, McLaren should be more aware of the epistemological complexities involved in his critique of traditional evangelicalism. He and other emergent leaders should also correct an implicit elitism that shows itself in the rhetoric in emergent church discourse. Of course, traditional evangelicalism has an explicit elitism that emergent leaders properly critique
Hmm, yeah, postmodernism and relativism is very prevalent in our western society. I guess we can only hope and pray that those in the emergent church come across this verse in the Bible and really consider what it means:
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
I was just witnessing to my brother and I was talking about postmodernism and relativism.
The chief characteristic of postmodernism is the rejection of absolute objective truth. “What’s true for you may not be true for me,†encapsulates the postmodern idiom fairly well. It’s all over the media, academia, politics and even much of ‘the church’. Some even go so far as to say: “There is no such thing as truth.†A thing may be cool, OK, or workable, but to say it is ‘true’ implies something else is ‘false’, a judgment call that assumes a hierarchy of correctness – which is apparently a no-no.
Apart from obvious dangers in that type of thinking (which are alluded to in "Creed of the World" -which is actually posted somewhere around here-), there are lots of contradictions in that type of thinking.
For example, the statement “There is no absolute truth†is a statement of absolute truth. Relativism is either true or false. If true, that is the same as saying, “it is an objective truth that there is no objective truth.†If false, the game is up.
Also, postmodernism is pluralistic claiming that no one view is uniquely correct. But if no single view is correct, is pluralism correct?
Also, postmodernists claim to have a neutral perspective and be able to take a detached bird’s eye view of all other views, while condemning all other views as biased constructs.
Also, postmodernism does not believe in worldviews (what it calls meta-narratives, maybe you’ve heard of these). But since it has a theory about life’s meaning, truth and morals, it qualifies as a worldview itself. That makes it a worldview that challenges the validity of worldviews!
Also, Postmodernism tolerates everything but intolerance.
Also, Its proponents expect us to listen to what they say as if it were absolutely true, while denying the very concept of absolute truth.
Also, a postmodernist expect others to take their authorial intent to heart, while denying the authorial validity of other texts. They use language carefully, expecting us to catch the essence of what they are saying, while simultaneously denying that language has universal weight.
Also, a postmodernist outlines the dichotomy between modernism and postmodernism, claiming that the latter is superior, while rejecting any such hierarchy of ideas exists.
Sure, in theory postmodernism was a provocative idea: but as a workable model for life it is useless. C.S. Lewis once pointed out that folk who deny the existence of an absolute moral law still become upset when you take their seat on a bus.
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
I was just witnessing to my brother and I was talking about postmodernism and relativism.
The chief characteristic of postmodernism is the rejection of absolute objective truth. “What’s true for you may not be true for me,†encapsulates the postmodern idiom fairly well. It’s all over the media, academia, politics and even much of ‘the church’. Some even go so far as to say: “There is no such thing as truth.†A thing may be cool, OK, or workable, but to say it is ‘true’ implies something else is ‘false’, a judgment call that assumes a hierarchy of correctness – which is apparently a no-no.
Apart from obvious dangers in that type of thinking (which are alluded to in "Creed of the World" -which is actually posted somewhere around here-), there are lots of contradictions in that type of thinking.
For example, the statement “There is no absolute truth†is a statement of absolute truth. Relativism is either true or false. If true, that is the same as saying, “it is an objective truth that there is no objective truth.†If false, the game is up.
Also, postmodernism is pluralistic claiming that no one view is uniquely correct. But if no single view is correct, is pluralism correct?
Also, postmodernists claim to have a neutral perspective and be able to take a detached bird’s eye view of all other views, while condemning all other views as biased constructs.
Also, postmodernism does not believe in worldviews (what it calls meta-narratives, maybe you’ve heard of these). But since it has a theory about life’s meaning, truth and morals, it qualifies as a worldview itself. That makes it a worldview that challenges the validity of worldviews!
Also, Postmodernism tolerates everything but intolerance.
Also, Its proponents expect us to listen to what they say as if it were absolutely true, while denying the very concept of absolute truth.
Also, a postmodernist expect others to take their authorial intent to heart, while denying the authorial validity of other texts. They use language carefully, expecting us to catch the essence of what they are saying, while simultaneously denying that language has universal weight.
Also, a postmodernist outlines the dichotomy between modernism and postmodernism, claiming that the latter is superior, while rejecting any such hierarchy of ideas exists.
Sure, in theory postmodernism was a provocative idea: but as a workable model for life it is useless. C.S. Lewis once pointed out that folk who deny the existence of an absolute moral law still become upset when you take their seat on a bus.
jgredline
Member
This "thing," according to Moran, is the emerging church  a term that has come to define a broad swath of churches that attract younger Christians by tapping into a secular culture. The movement  which promotes alternative ways of attracting young people, including rock music and alcohol  makes traditional Christian leaders nervous.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
stovebolts
Member
Did anyone actually watch the video? If so, what were your thoughts?
Thanks!
Thanks!
stovebolts
Member
jgredline said:
Javier,
How does Rob fit the discription of "ravenous wolf"? As far as his comment on "Breathing" being a form of prayer, have you seen his video Breath?
I would be very interested in navigating through all the issues.
thanks agian.
Hey Jeff,
I would assume he's concerned about a loss of meaning. I've seen the video and some other things from Rob and think he has good insight. But after reading some other thoughts Rob has, I think he is in danger of losing the real meaning. I haven't read him extensively so I can't completely make that judgement, but I definately get a gut feeling. I remember reading that his wife is now unsure about much in her faith. I think there is alot of depth in the Bible that Rob brings out, but the Bible is also simple and clear in its message of Truth. The Gospel... the Good News of Jesus Christ saving us from sin and death. And that shouldn't be overlooked or neglected or muddled in any way.
I would assume he's concerned about a loss of meaning. I've seen the video and some other things from Rob and think he has good insight. But after reading some other thoughts Rob has, I think he is in danger of losing the real meaning. I haven't read him extensively so I can't completely make that judgement, but I definately get a gut feeling. I remember reading that his wife is now unsure about much in her faith. I think there is alot of depth in the Bible that Rob brings out, but the Bible is also simple and clear in its message of Truth. The Gospel... the Good News of Jesus Christ saving us from sin and death. And that shouldn't be overlooked or neglected or muddled in any way.
stovebolts
Member
Hi Veritas,
I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but I've learned that sometimes when we assume, we can find ourselves in much trouble...
That being said, I've got some of Rob's material and it's not that I have to agree 100% with everything, but I can discern it rationally.
For example. Some may beat the KJV drum, and that's fine. But my teen won't sit and read the KJV (neither will I), so what's wrong with a newer version that looks and reads like a cool magazine that will grab her attention with some sub topics on the verses that she can relate to?
My point is this, we all have talents and with those talents we can reach people that wouldn't otherwise be reached. We should be shouting for joy when sombody who is turned off by 'religion' comes to hear the good news of our Lord and savior Jesus and starts their walk with Jesus or their walk is encouraged.
Paul wrote
hilippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
If he could rejoice, why can't we?
I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but I've learned that sometimes when we assume, we can find ourselves in much trouble...
That being said, I've got some of Rob's material and it's not that I have to agree 100% with everything, but I can discern it rationally.
For example. Some may beat the KJV drum, and that's fine. But my teen won't sit and read the KJV (neither will I), so what's wrong with a newer version that looks and reads like a cool magazine that will grab her attention with some sub topics on the verses that she can relate to?
My point is this, we all have talents and with those talents we can reach people that wouldn't otherwise be reached. We should be shouting for joy when sombody who is turned off by 'religion' comes to hear the good news of our Lord and savior Jesus and starts their walk with Jesus or their walk is encouraged.
Paul wrote
hilippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.If he could rejoice, why can't we?
G
Guest
Guest
StoveBolts said:Hi Veritas,
I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but I've learned that sometimes when we assume, we can find ourselves in much trouble...
That being said, I've got some of Rob's material and it's not that I have to agree 100% with everything, but I can discern it rationally.
For example. Some may beat the KJV drum, and that's fine. But my teen won't sit and read the KJV (neither will I), so what's wrong with a newer version that looks and reads like a cool magazine that will grab her attention with some sub topics on the verses that she can relate to?
My point is this, we all have talents and with those talents we can reach people that wouldn't otherwise be reached. We should be shouting for joy when sombody who is turned off by 'religion' comes to hear the good news of our Lord and savior Jesus and starts their walk with Jesus or their walk is encouraged.
Paul wrote
If he could rejoice, why can't we?
StoveBolts - the idea I get behind Philippians is that the "doctrine" of Christ in both cases is the same - it is the reasons BEHIND the proclaiming that is different.
Let's look at it this way: I am not a big fan of Dr. Dobson - however, regardless of how I feel about him - I can rejoice with him that he is proclaiming Christ.
Now, I am not commenting on the videos that you posted or on the person - just wanting to explain how I view Philippians.