Rapture ruptured?

[tessiewebb]

Is there going to be a rapture that will take Christians out of the world allowing the enemy full sway on earth? The Bible speaks of what sounds like the common understanding of the rapture but is it truly the way to understand the verses? Who will be taken and where? What does it mean that we will meet Him in the air? Which trumpet will sound first? There are pre- and mid-tribulation believers. I say the rapture will not happen as it is commonly believed it will. Two verses in particular brought me to this conclusion and that is Matthew 24:29, which reads in the NKJV "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened....and verse 30, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear..." Those "taken" in chapter 23 are not said to be Christians. In fact, verse 39 clearly indicates they would be like those "taken away" by the flood, in other words, unbelieving sinners.

 

[felix]

Is there going to be a rapture that will take Christians out of the world allowing the enemy full sway on earth?

No. Refer Rev 7:14 which speaks about God's people who came out of great tribulation.

The Bible speaks of what sounds like the common understanding of the rapture but is it truly the way to understand the verses? Who will be taken and where? What does it mean that we will meet Him in the air? Which trumpet will sound first? There are pre- and mid-tribulation believers. I say the rapture will not happen as it is commonly believed it will. Two verses in particular brought me to this conclusion and that is Matthew 24:29, which reads in the NKJV "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened....and verse 30, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear..." Those "taken" in chapter 23 are not said to be Christians. In fact, verse 39 clearly indicates they would be like those "taken away" by the flood, in other words, unbelieving sinners.

Luke 17:29-30 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed [them] all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Reading the whole context explains it all and the way you explained is wrong. If you suggest that 'taken away' means sinners just because it is similar to Noah, then I would suggest Lot was 'taken away' and rest of the people in Sodom was left behind to die.

'taken away' clearly means God's people and that's after the tribulation at the exact moment of His second coming as described in the below verse.
1Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

It is the 7th trumpet as 1Cor 15:52 clearly says it is the 'last trumpet'.

 

[Vic C.]

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.


Also, the "last trump" (trump of God) is a Jewish Feast reference and does not necessarily point to the 7th. trumpet in Revelation (angelic trumpet).

link ---> The Last Trump

 

[felix]

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.


Also, the "last trump" (trump of God) is a Jewish Feast reference and does not necessarily point to the 7th. trumpet in Revelation (angelic trumpet).

link ---> The Last Trump

(John 14:2-3) In My Father's house are many mansions; if [it were] not [so,] I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, [there] you may be also.

 

[for_his_glory]

I want to show you there is no scripture that supports a seven year tribulation. The Bible never talks about seven years, but 3½ only as we will always have tribulations and persecutions until the day of judgment when Jesus returns in the air to gather those who have endured all the tribulations and persecutions for the witness of Christ and places them in safety until he makes an end to all the abominations of the world and Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation period (not a seven year) as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

The abomination of desolation was 1260 years (a year is as a day with the Lord) of Papal Rome rule from 538AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius and the beast (Pope) until the deadly wound came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the papal government and established a secular one. This is also confirmed in Revelation 12:6 the church of Jesus would hide in the wilderness for exactly 1260 days (years) or 3 ½ years. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were approximately 500 million saints slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. 1798 – 538 = 1260 days/years. Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy and its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world, Revelation 13:3, 12; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 12:6.

Jesus said those who will endure in the faith of Christ unto the end the same shall be saved. This means the end of Papal rule in 1798 which now allowed the Gospel to be preached through out the world as we have been set free from Papal authority even though Papal Rome will try to take its seat again to rule the nations from Jerusalem, which is also an abomination of desolation to God as Satan said “I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds; I will be like the Most Highâ€. The so called seven year trib, which I have explained is only 3½ years in history that has already passed and is not a certain future event. There is much tribulation yet to come through Papal Rome as the world will face their tyranny once again and then the end shall come when God will judge the world as he separates the wheat from the tares, or the goats from the sheep and make end to all sin, Matthew 24:13, 14.

There is no mention in scripture about a secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance, 1Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 1:7; John 14:17; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22

 

[felix]

1798 – 538 = 1260

Scripture uses 360 day per year (Rev 11:2a-3b) calendar, not 365. The total number of "360 day" years between 538 and 1798 AD gives 1278 years not 1260.

 

[Vic C.]

Scripture uses 360 day per year (Rev 11:2a-3b) calendar, not 365. The total number of "360 day" years between 538 and 1798 AD gives 1278 years not 1260.

Hi Felix,

I believe what for_His_glory has posted is found in the teachings of the SDA.

(John 14:2-3) In My Father's house are many mansions; if [it were] not [so,] I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, [there] you may be also.

What Bible translation is that? We stress that all non-public domain translations be cited, for legal reasons.

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/bible-translations-21498/

As for the verse you quoted, are "we" assuming God's house is physical? God is spirit and I would gather from that fact that His house may also be spiritual. There are a couple of verses that support this belief:

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

(add to this the verses that Paul tells us that we are the Temple of God)

What Jesus said in the verse you quote was prior to His death and resurrection. The Son is now seated at the right hard of the Father. He is now IN that place. Your place is already prepared for you. :yes

Jesus didn't tell us in that verse where the "place" will be, but with what Paul wrote and what Peter told us (below) it isn't a stretch at all to believe this place is not very far from where we are now.

1 Pet 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Jesus did say, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. (Mark 12:34) ;)

He also said, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21)

He even went as far as saying, the kingdom of God is at hand: (Mark 1:15)


I only bring this up because it is a valid and scriptural belief.

 

[felix]

What Bible translation is that? We stress that all non-public domain translations be cited, for legal reasons.

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/bible-translations-21498/

It's in my signature ... "I quote all from NKJV".

As for the verse you quoted, are "we" assuming God's house is physical? God is spirit and I would gather from that fact that His house may also be spiritual.

But Jesus Christ is not a Spirit.

(Luke 24:39) "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

In John 14:2-3, Jesus Christ said, we will be with Christ, which is not in a spirit form.

 

[jasoncran]

its somewhere in the galaxy we reside in. perhaps the the sol system with the third blue planet when its all said and done.

 

[for_his_glory]

Vic C. I am not a SDA, but am a Spiritually born-again child of God and all my references come from the KJV of the word of God and if you study the scriptures I gave for reference to the 1260 days and study the Hebrew calender and do the math it adds up to 1260 days. I would love to post the whole class I have written on the subject, but it is eleven pages long.

 

[Vic C.]

Vic C. I am not a SDA, but am a Spiritually born-again child of God and all my references come from the KJV of the word of God and if you study the scriptures I gave for reference to the 1260 days and study the Hebrew calender and do the math it adds up to 1260 days. I would love to post the whole class I have written on the subject, but it is eleven pages long.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were SDA. Your Historicist POV very closely resembles theirs, that's all. :yes

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were SDA. Your Historicist POV very closely resembles theirs, that's all. :yes

No problem, just wanted to set the record straight who I am and I do study the history sometimes to get the facts as I love digging into the word to get all that good meat that's there

 

[Acebopata]

I've considered the possibility of both a pre-tribulation and post-tribulation Rapture occuring, but I haven't found any concreate scripture to indicate that both will occur.

I do know this, a sudden dissapperance of a large number of people would seem to be an effective wake-up call, so it does make some sense that the Christains would be raptured right before the tribulation.

 

[n2thelight]

It's in my signature ... "I quote all from NKJV".



But Jesus Christ is not a Spirit.

(Luke 24:39) "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

In John 14:2-3, Jesus Christ said, we will be with Christ, which is not in a spirit form.

Flesh and blood cannot enter that Kingdom.....Christ is the word that became flesh....

The age of flesh will be over at Christ return,the problem I see is that people mix up the soul and the spirit...The soul has substance,the spirit which is the intellect has none.....

 

[Sinthesis]

Flesh and blood cannot enter that Kingdom.....Christ is the word that became flesh....

The age of flesh will be over at Christ return,the problem I see is that people mix up the soul and the spirit...The soul has substance,the spirit which is the intellect has none.....

I've been told my entire life that my intellect has no substance.:splat

 

[n2thelight]

I've been told my entire life that my intellect has no substance.:splat

cool