B
BenjaminTC
Guest
Well, droopfeather, you bravely refused to respond to what I had to say, until I moved my response. So in order to humor your arbitrary preferences, here is my response. I actually should thank you. This gave me a chance to revamp my response. Now its a little more concise and in order than last time. Anyone else is free to respond to this, but my time is somewhat limited, so don't expect an indepth response to everything if I get a large number of responses.
Q:Do Christians hate atheists?
A:No. One cannot be a christian and hate another human being. The two are incompatible.
__________
Well, history and reality disagree with you. But I know the ideal Christian shouldn't hate
others, I understand.
------------------
Q: Do christians hate atheism, then?
A:I'm sure some(or many), do. Many realize how destructive and false it is, and therefore would
like to stop or obliterate the spread of atheism. It has caused too much damage to our world and
nation, and leads other harmful practices, lifestyles, etc.
__________
Destructive to what? The church? Christianity is destructive to free thought, free will,
scientific advancement, civil liberties, privacy, the list goes on... Please elaborate on what
atheism has done to harm society.
--------------
Q: christians beleive that atheism contains fallacies, errors in logic, etc?
A:I'm sure most do. In fact, the truth is that atheism does contain many errors that contradict
logic, truth, and reality.
__________
Q:What are the errors?
A:An atheist error that contradicts logic, for instance, is that matter and energy had no
starting point, were never created, and are eternal.
An error in truth is denying that God exists, atheists "know" that God doesn't exist, it affirms
a negative. An error that contradicts reality is the atheist denial of anything supernatural,
which has been shown false many, many, many times.
__________
Firstly, there are two deffinitions of the word atheist. You are using only one of them. Here are
the two: One who believes there is no god OR an atheist does not have a belief in a god. The
differences are subtle, but they are there. There is a bit of faith in the first kind to affirm
there is no god, I agree. However the second kind affirms nothing. Therefore they do not affirm a
begining with or without a starting point, etc.
The supernatural has not been proven. I can't even imagine how you can think that the
SUPERNATURAL has been PROVEN. Just think about it for a little. There are phenomenon that have
not been explained. Lack of explination is not proof of the supernatural. Solar eclipses were a
complete mistery to humans for thousands and thousands of years. It lacked an explination, it was
not proof of the supernatural.
Atheists have varying views regarding the begining of the universe, so I will not adress that on
behalf of all atheists. It wouldn't be fair.
Like I said before, atheists don't necessarily "affirm" the non-existance of a god, they simply
lack a belief in one. I, for example, do not have a belief in a god. I affirm that the bible
god does not exist. This, I admit, affirms a negative, and therefore has some faith behind it.
But I aknoweledge that our understanding of the origins of our universe is so far beyond our
understanding, that I cannot claim to know what happened, and anyone who claims to know is almost
doubtlessly completely wrong.
__________
Q:How can you be sure that God exists?
A:Becuase God has revealed Himself in many ways.
__________
Q:Oh Yeah? Like how?
A:The creation of our universe, for instance, that is proof enough that there is a creator God.
__________
This also is not proof. You have indulged into the dreaded method of circular reasoning.
OBSERVATION: The universe exists. HYPOTHESIS: God created it. SUPPORT: The universe exists.
CONCLUSION: God created it.
This is not proof. This is circular reasoning. Your support can't be the observation. Your
support must be something else.
__________
Q:Thats it?
A:No. There are many ways, I said. Another proof of God is supernatural experiances, such as
miracles.
__________
Once again, your using fairy tales and myths as alleged proof. Miracles are just unexplained
things. Anyone can use the word miracle for just about anything. If you get shot in the stomach
and don't die, you'd think its a miracle. This is not proof. Supernatural experiences are not
proof.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:47 am Post subject: Atheist FAQ
Q:So? People are making those "miracles" up and lying aren't they?
A:Well, it could be possible, but do you really think that millions upon millions of people make
up stories about miracles? Didn't think so.
__________
To what "miracles" are you refering? Are there indeed millions upon millions of these supposed
miracles? Do you know that there is not a practical explination for these occurances, whatever
they may be?
I'm not saying "millions upon millions," as you say, of stories are made up. But they can be
exagerated, misinterperated, etc. Still, I don't know exactly what "miracles" you are talking
about, so this is hard for me to argue.
__________
Q:Don't some people beleive that miracles are really always non-supernatural, or that they always
made up?
A:Yes. Those people are called morons.
__________
Wrong. Those people are called skeptics. People who believe whatever they are taught or whatever
they hear without question are the morons.
__________
Q:How can atheists be afraid of what they don't beleive in?
A:They do beleive in God, they just don't acknowledge it. EX:A man is overweight, he does not
admit that he is, and does not beleive that he is overweight. The reality is that he is, but
won't acknowledge it.
__________
Hmmm... where to begin???? And he was calling ME the moron.... heh...
You are posting this thread as if you have an iota of knoweledge as to what an atheist IS. An
atheist BY deffinition does not believe in a god or gods. You can't even come close to
understanding WHO atheists are if you are so confused about WHAT they are.
By saying all atheists not only believe your god exists, but deny its existance is absolutely
asinine. Your analogy of the overweight person is completely false. How can you equate something
as plainly visible as an overweight person to the invisible god you speak of? This is
perposterous. If you EVER talk with atheists, and you tell them that they truly believe in god,
but just won't admit it, they will laugh in your face. I'm laughing as I write this response. You
clearly have little understanding of anything outside of what you were taught.
__________
Q: christians beleive that atheists exist?
A:Some do. Some do not. I do not. I have never been presented with evidence that atheists are
indeed real. People that claim they are "atheists" i do beleive in, however.
__________
Atheists exist. How can you deny the existance of 8-12% of the American population, but you have
no problem in believing in this invisible silent deity?
_____________________________________________________________
Q:Thats different than usual, then why are there so many religions, and even arguements over what
the "truth" is in different religioius groups and churches?
A:Because people are prideful, and on the whole, morons. You need to look for yourself, and not
look for answers to what the truth is in churches or religions.
__________
Bingo.
__________
Q:What about the Bible? Why do christians beleive it is the Word of God?
A:Because(I hope) many of them realize what sets it apart from all man-made works. Do some
research and read about it.
__________
And what research demonstrates that it is the word of god? What sets it apart from other manmade
works? Even better: What sets it appart from any other mythology? What sets it apart from fairy
tales? Many Christian beliefs are quite similar to older, pagan beliefs. Birth of a savior of a
virgin, execution and resurection of the savior, baptism, immortality, holy meal representing
human flesh, and many others. All these beliefs and rituals are predated by mediterranian pagan
religions.
Maybe you shoud do some reasearch.
__________
Q:What about the age of the earth? Doesn't the evidence point to it being 4.5 billion years old?
A:It might. Noone knows for sure. It is my beleif, based on evidence that the earth was created
as if it had a history.
__________
Saying "no one knows for sure" is the biggest cop-out in the book. Science prooves that the earth
is over 4 billion years old. The only people who dispute this are Christian fundamentalists who
see some parts of science as a threat to what they teach or are taught.
With what evidence do you believe that a creator god created the earth AS IF it were billions of
years old? This belief is not supported by evidence. The evidence shows the earth IS billions of
years old. Your belief is just middle ground between the new-earth creationists and rational
people.
__________
Q:What is there evidence of that?
A:Other things were created as if they were already there before. Adam and Eve, animals, plants,
etc.
__________
You clearly have not a shadow of a clue of what the words "evidence" or "proof" mean.
__________
Q:What about evolution?
A:What about it? If you mean if it is true or not, then it depends on how you view the evidence.
Some say evolution happened, some say that literal genesis creation happened. My observation is
that the evidence points to literal genesis creation.
__________
The truth of evolution does not hang in the balance of how you view it. The given is that it
happened. The variable is whether or not you accept it.
Also, there seems to be this belief that if evolution is true, that automatically Christianity is
false. That is false. (Christianity is false for other reasons.) Evolution does not cancel out
the existance of god, or jesus or anything. The evidence does not point to a literal genesis
creation. Evolution is true, but you don't have to be afraid of believing in it. You can be a
Christian and an evolutionist at the same time.
__________
Q:Didn't you know that it is a fact that Humans evolved from lower apes?
A:Let me see it happen, and I'll beleive you.
__________
Get a time machine. We cannot observe evolution HAPPENING. It is a prossess that requires
millions of years. However, we observe that it HAPPENED. We have the fossil records, and what
exists now. You cannot watch evolution happen.
And why can you not apply the same methods of skeptical thinking to your god as you do to
demonstrated fact? Why do you have to see evolution, but not your god?
__________
Q:The global flood couldn't have happened, unless there were many miracles involved, right?
A:God is the creator of miracles.
__________
There is a key word to science: Falsify. If your belief, or hypothesis, cannot be falsified it is
not science. CHristianity cannot be falsified. Any time someone comes up with evidence that
something in the bible is false or impossible, you use the magic word "miracle." For that reason,
your belief is not scientific, it is religious, mythological, imaginary, etc.
__________
Q:Your religion is all lies, can't you see that?
A:I don't have a religion, what the heck are you talking about?
__________
I'm talking about Christianity, what are you talking about?
You also didn't respond to the "lies" part. Whether to you its a relationship or a religion,
(its a religion) the lies still exist.
__________
Q:Isn't that the same as we atheists claiming that energy and matter are eternal?
A:No. No atheist has ever claimed any supernatural properties of matter or energy that allow it
to be eternal. We know for a fact that God is above our understanding,. and His supernatural
ability of always having been is not understood either.
__________
"We know for a fact God is above our understanding." Well, if that's not paradox, what is?
Ok. Look up the following words in your dictionary: FACT, PROOF, EVIDENCE.
Ok, that said, who says anything about eternity is supernatural? Many believe the universe is
infinately large, so why can't time be infinate? Infact Einstein proved time and space are
closely interlocked, so its quite possible that it is true. Many atheists do believe in an
eternal universe, and others do not. Some don't have a belief either way. There is nothing
supernatural about eternity.
__________
Q:Isn't that the same as what we claim though?
A:No. We know the How, we just don't understand the How. Atheists neither give an explanation nor
understand it.
__________
EXACTLY. This is exactly what is WRONG with your belief. What is so hard about saying "I DON'T
KNOW?" You believe that a wrong answer is better than no answer at all. If I ask "why did the
universe come into being?" the honest answer for anyone is "I don't know!" because no on knows!
You would rather say something completely unsubstantiated, with no evidence, proof, or anything
to stand on at all, and say "god made it." You don't know that. Thats just a guess.
__________
Q:Okay. Do christians beleive atheists to be "fools"?
A:Yes. The Bible tells us those who beleive there is no God are fools, and reality tells us that
as well.
__________
And atheists believe Christians are fools, to generalize a bit as you did.
__________
Q:Can't you say anything good about atheists?
A:Yes, I do have something good to say about them. They are very creative coming up with their
outrageous fairy tales.
__________
Once again, we say the same about you. But hold on a second, what fairy tales have atheists
created? You're the one with the ancient mythology. You're the one with the talking snakes,
demons, angels, vengeful dieties, david and goliath, jonah and the whale, the resurections,
miracles. Those are your fairy tales. WHat are ours?
__________
Q:Can't you prove that your God is real?
A:Yes, and I have my proof. I can't give my personal experiances away, I can't make god reveal
Himself to you. You don't need that extreme of proof to know that God is real, though, you have
more than plenty already. The choice is yours alone to accept reality or to live in a play-world.
_____________________________________________________________
Proof is universal. It is proven that force = mass times acceleration. People didn't have to
discover it on their own, it is a universal truth. I don't need "extreme" proof. Proof is fine
enough. There is not "more than plenty" of proof; there is none. I have made my choice to live in
reality. I encourage you to leave your "play-world".
Q:Do Christians hate atheists?
A:No. One cannot be a christian and hate another human being. The two are incompatible.
__________
Well, history and reality disagree with you. But I know the ideal Christian shouldn't hate
others, I understand.
------------------
Q: Do christians hate atheism, then?
A:I'm sure some(or many), do. Many realize how destructive and false it is, and therefore would
like to stop or obliterate the spread of atheism. It has caused too much damage to our world and
nation, and leads other harmful practices, lifestyles, etc.
__________
Destructive to what? The church? Christianity is destructive to free thought, free will,
scientific advancement, civil liberties, privacy, the list goes on... Please elaborate on what
atheism has done to harm society.
--------------
Q: christians beleive that atheism contains fallacies, errors in logic, etc?
A:I'm sure most do. In fact, the truth is that atheism does contain many errors that contradict
logic, truth, and reality.
__________
Q:What are the errors?
A:An atheist error that contradicts logic, for instance, is that matter and energy had no
starting point, were never created, and are eternal.
An error in truth is denying that God exists, atheists "know" that God doesn't exist, it affirms
a negative. An error that contradicts reality is the atheist denial of anything supernatural,
which has been shown false many, many, many times.
__________
Firstly, there are two deffinitions of the word atheist. You are using only one of them. Here are
the two: One who believes there is no god OR an atheist does not have a belief in a god. The
differences are subtle, but they are there. There is a bit of faith in the first kind to affirm
there is no god, I agree. However the second kind affirms nothing. Therefore they do not affirm a
begining with or without a starting point, etc.
The supernatural has not been proven. I can't even imagine how you can think that the
SUPERNATURAL has been PROVEN. Just think about it for a little. There are phenomenon that have
not been explained. Lack of explination is not proof of the supernatural. Solar eclipses were a
complete mistery to humans for thousands and thousands of years. It lacked an explination, it was
not proof of the supernatural.
Atheists have varying views regarding the begining of the universe, so I will not adress that on
behalf of all atheists. It wouldn't be fair.
Like I said before, atheists don't necessarily "affirm" the non-existance of a god, they simply
lack a belief in one. I, for example, do not have a belief in a god. I affirm that the bible
god does not exist. This, I admit, affirms a negative, and therefore has some faith behind it.
But I aknoweledge that our understanding of the origins of our universe is so far beyond our
understanding, that I cannot claim to know what happened, and anyone who claims to know is almost
doubtlessly completely wrong.
__________
Q:How can you be sure that God exists?
A:Becuase God has revealed Himself in many ways.
__________
Q:Oh Yeah? Like how?
A:The creation of our universe, for instance, that is proof enough that there is a creator God.
__________
This also is not proof. You have indulged into the dreaded method of circular reasoning.
OBSERVATION: The universe exists. HYPOTHESIS: God created it. SUPPORT: The universe exists.
CONCLUSION: God created it.
This is not proof. This is circular reasoning. Your support can't be the observation. Your
support must be something else.
__________
Q:Thats it?
A:No. There are many ways, I said. Another proof of God is supernatural experiances, such as
miracles.
__________
Once again, your using fairy tales and myths as alleged proof. Miracles are just unexplained
things. Anyone can use the word miracle for just about anything. If you get shot in the stomach
and don't die, you'd think its a miracle. This is not proof. Supernatural experiences are not
proof.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:47 am Post subject: Atheist FAQ
Q:So? People are making those "miracles" up and lying aren't they?
A:Well, it could be possible, but do you really think that millions upon millions of people make
up stories about miracles? Didn't think so.
__________
To what "miracles" are you refering? Are there indeed millions upon millions of these supposed
miracles? Do you know that there is not a practical explination for these occurances, whatever
they may be?
I'm not saying "millions upon millions," as you say, of stories are made up. But they can be
exagerated, misinterperated, etc. Still, I don't know exactly what "miracles" you are talking
about, so this is hard for me to argue.
__________
Q:Don't some people beleive that miracles are really always non-supernatural, or that they always
made up?
A:Yes. Those people are called morons.
__________
Wrong. Those people are called skeptics. People who believe whatever they are taught or whatever
they hear without question are the morons.
__________
Q:How can atheists be afraid of what they don't beleive in?
A:They do beleive in God, they just don't acknowledge it. EX:A man is overweight, he does not
admit that he is, and does not beleive that he is overweight. The reality is that he is, but
won't acknowledge it.
__________
Hmmm... where to begin???? And he was calling ME the moron.... heh...
You are posting this thread as if you have an iota of knoweledge as to what an atheist IS. An
atheist BY deffinition does not believe in a god or gods. You can't even come close to
understanding WHO atheists are if you are so confused about WHAT they are.
By saying all atheists not only believe your god exists, but deny its existance is absolutely
asinine. Your analogy of the overweight person is completely false. How can you equate something
as plainly visible as an overweight person to the invisible god you speak of? This is
perposterous. If you EVER talk with atheists, and you tell them that they truly believe in god,
but just won't admit it, they will laugh in your face. I'm laughing as I write this response. You
clearly have little understanding of anything outside of what you were taught.
__________
Q: christians beleive that atheists exist?
A:Some do. Some do not. I do not. I have never been presented with evidence that atheists are
indeed real. People that claim they are "atheists" i do beleive in, however.
__________
Atheists exist. How can you deny the existance of 8-12% of the American population, but you have
no problem in believing in this invisible silent deity?
_____________________________________________________________
Q:Thats different than usual, then why are there so many religions, and even arguements over what
the "truth" is in different religioius groups and churches?
A:Because people are prideful, and on the whole, morons. You need to look for yourself, and not
look for answers to what the truth is in churches or religions.
__________
Bingo.
__________
Q:What about the Bible? Why do christians beleive it is the Word of God?
A:Because(I hope) many of them realize what sets it apart from all man-made works. Do some
research and read about it.
__________
And what research demonstrates that it is the word of god? What sets it apart from other manmade
works? Even better: What sets it appart from any other mythology? What sets it apart from fairy
tales? Many Christian beliefs are quite similar to older, pagan beliefs. Birth of a savior of a
virgin, execution and resurection of the savior, baptism, immortality, holy meal representing
human flesh, and many others. All these beliefs and rituals are predated by mediterranian pagan
religions.
Maybe you shoud do some reasearch.
__________
Q:What about the age of the earth? Doesn't the evidence point to it being 4.5 billion years old?
A:It might. Noone knows for sure. It is my beleif, based on evidence that the earth was created
as if it had a history.
__________
Saying "no one knows for sure" is the biggest cop-out in the book. Science prooves that the earth
is over 4 billion years old. The only people who dispute this are Christian fundamentalists who
see some parts of science as a threat to what they teach or are taught.
With what evidence do you believe that a creator god created the earth AS IF it were billions of
years old? This belief is not supported by evidence. The evidence shows the earth IS billions of
years old. Your belief is just middle ground between the new-earth creationists and rational
people.
__________
Q:What is there evidence of that?
A:Other things were created as if they were already there before. Adam and Eve, animals, plants,
etc.
__________
You clearly have not a shadow of a clue of what the words "evidence" or "proof" mean.
__________
Q:What about evolution?
A:What about it? If you mean if it is true or not, then it depends on how you view the evidence.
Some say evolution happened, some say that literal genesis creation happened. My observation is
that the evidence points to literal genesis creation.
__________
The truth of evolution does not hang in the balance of how you view it. The given is that it
happened. The variable is whether or not you accept it.
Also, there seems to be this belief that if evolution is true, that automatically Christianity is
false. That is false. (Christianity is false for other reasons.) Evolution does not cancel out
the existance of god, or jesus or anything. The evidence does not point to a literal genesis
creation. Evolution is true, but you don't have to be afraid of believing in it. You can be a
Christian and an evolutionist at the same time.
__________
Q:Didn't you know that it is a fact that Humans evolved from lower apes?
A:Let me see it happen, and I'll beleive you.
__________
Get a time machine. We cannot observe evolution HAPPENING. It is a prossess that requires
millions of years. However, we observe that it HAPPENED. We have the fossil records, and what
exists now. You cannot watch evolution happen.
And why can you not apply the same methods of skeptical thinking to your god as you do to
demonstrated fact? Why do you have to see evolution, but not your god?
__________
Q:The global flood couldn't have happened, unless there were many miracles involved, right?
A:God is the creator of miracles.
__________
There is a key word to science: Falsify. If your belief, or hypothesis, cannot be falsified it is
not science. CHristianity cannot be falsified. Any time someone comes up with evidence that
something in the bible is false or impossible, you use the magic word "miracle." For that reason,
your belief is not scientific, it is religious, mythological, imaginary, etc.
__________
Q:Your religion is all lies, can't you see that?
A:I don't have a religion, what the heck are you talking about?
__________
I'm talking about Christianity, what are you talking about?
You also didn't respond to the "lies" part. Whether to you its a relationship or a religion,
(its a religion) the lies still exist.
__________
Q:Isn't that the same as we atheists claiming that energy and matter are eternal?
A:No. No atheist has ever claimed any supernatural properties of matter or energy that allow it
to be eternal. We know for a fact that God is above our understanding,. and His supernatural
ability of always having been is not understood either.
__________
"We know for a fact God is above our understanding." Well, if that's not paradox, what is?
Ok. Look up the following words in your dictionary: FACT, PROOF, EVIDENCE.
Ok, that said, who says anything about eternity is supernatural? Many believe the universe is
infinately large, so why can't time be infinate? Infact Einstein proved time and space are
closely interlocked, so its quite possible that it is true. Many atheists do believe in an
eternal universe, and others do not. Some don't have a belief either way. There is nothing
supernatural about eternity.
__________
Q:Isn't that the same as what we claim though?
A:No. We know the How, we just don't understand the How. Atheists neither give an explanation nor
understand it.
__________
EXACTLY. This is exactly what is WRONG with your belief. What is so hard about saying "I DON'T
KNOW?" You believe that a wrong answer is better than no answer at all. If I ask "why did the
universe come into being?" the honest answer for anyone is "I don't know!" because no on knows!
You would rather say something completely unsubstantiated, with no evidence, proof, or anything
to stand on at all, and say "god made it." You don't know that. Thats just a guess.
__________
Q:Okay. Do christians beleive atheists to be "fools"?
A:Yes. The Bible tells us those who beleive there is no God are fools, and reality tells us that
as well.
__________
And atheists believe Christians are fools, to generalize a bit as you did.
__________
Q:Can't you say anything good about atheists?
A:Yes, I do have something good to say about them. They are very creative coming up with their
outrageous fairy tales.
__________
Once again, we say the same about you. But hold on a second, what fairy tales have atheists
created? You're the one with the ancient mythology. You're the one with the talking snakes,
demons, angels, vengeful dieties, david and goliath, jonah and the whale, the resurections,
miracles. Those are your fairy tales. WHat are ours?
__________
Q:Can't you prove that your God is real?
A:Yes, and I have my proof. I can't give my personal experiances away, I can't make god reveal
Himself to you. You don't need that extreme of proof to know that God is real, though, you have
more than plenty already. The choice is yours alone to accept reality or to live in a play-world.
_____________________________________________________________
Proof is universal. It is proven that force = mass times acceleration. People didn't have to
discover it on their own, it is a universal truth. I don't need "extreme" proof. Proof is fine
enough. There is not "more than plenty" of proof; there is none. I have made my choice to live in
reality. I encourage you to leave your "play-world".
