Realized Eschatology

[YouShallKnowTheTruth]

For over twenty years as a believer, I was a dispensationalist. After being introduced to amillennialism, I set out to prove the Scriptures for myself and found myself proving myself WRONG. The Scriptures are clear in NUMEROUS places that Jesus and His Apostles taught His soon return in THEIR lifetime. I have been a Full Preterist for 30 years and the Bible continues to prove realized eschatology to be CORRECT.

I have been disfellowshipped by three churches, my salvation has been questioned, and "wise" pastors who cling to their creeds and thought themselves worthy of playing God kicked me out of GOD'S kingdom. I have also been cast out of numerous forums.

Those who malign those who embrace the scriptural teachings of realized eschatology (aka Full Preterism) and stamp a big H on our foreheads will have to give an account for their false accusations and their sin of casting out their fellow believers from fellowship. It will be a rude awakening for much of Christendom when they finally realize their grave errors. For some it might happen in this lifetime; for others they will not know the truth until they are taken to glory.

The Church is woefully wrong about the NATURE of the Second Coming and the NATURE of the Resurrection and the NATURE of the Judgment and that is why they cannot embrace the OBVIOUS timing of those events. Many Christians are stuck in their preconceptions about how things were supposed to play out--so much so that they are forced to manipulate, redefine, or ignore clear time statements--even those spoken by our Lord Himself!

Sadly, Christians are intimidated by anything that disagrees with their false futurism so that they will not even communicate with us. To reject something one does not understand is unjustified. Futurists point their fingers at us and cry foul because they refuse to allow us to present OUR understanding of the NATURE of the Parousia, the Resurrection, and the Judgment. From our perspective, which we believe to be biblical, all of those things, when understood correctly, FIT perfectly with the timing. There is NO conflict. The Full Preterist (and biblical) paradigm is COHESIVE and HARMONIOUS within itself. Futurists take the tenets of their paradigm and try to impose them upon ours and then cry HERETIC when things don't fit. That is NOT fair!

TIME determines NATURE. Futurists determine the nature and then must twist and spin the time words to attempt to make them fit.

Sadly, futurists will never understand the Scriptures unless and until they become willing to place events and words within their proper HISTORICAL setting.

The writer of Hebrews wrote (in the A.D. 60s)--"In a VERY, VERY little while He who IS COMING WILL COME and will NOT DELAY" (10:37). No futurist has ever even attempted to exegete that passage. But it defends the full preterist and condemns the futurist!

I will shake the dust off of my feet and take my leave from this forum. Truth is suppressed here. Your stubborn refusal to even let us speak is egregious and inexcusable. The Jews missed His Advent because they looked for the wrong king and the wrong kingdom. Sadly, many in the Church have missed His second coming for the very same reasons. The cry goes out, "Jesus is coming SOON!" Really? Jesus and His Apostles used that same word, yet many do not believe them. Many use that term today and expect everyone to understand it in its normal, usual, common, reasonable meaning. Why won't they allow it to mean that very same thing when it came from the lips of OUR LORD!

Jesus said: "Behold, I am coming SOON." And He did--or He lied! Be careful of what you believe lest you dishonor the Lord you claim to love.

 

[ezrider]

Sadly, futurists will never understand the Scriptures unless and until they become willing to place events and words within their proper HISTORICAL setting.

I don't think it's about a willingness to place events in their proper historical setting. Many have shown a willingness to try and learn about and understand historical events, but they are often misplaced. They can't understand the scriptures and the truth will remain hidden from them while they worship for a God the Image of a Man.

 

[Exeter]

I will shake the dust off of my feet and take my leave from this forum.

But you've only just joined.
Johnny-One-Notes who frequent forums with no other aim than to engage in debate about endtimes do so to their own disadvantage, given that keeping the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace seems to take a back seat in such debates.

Unity in the Body Ephesians 4:1-3
(Psalm 133:1–3; 1 Corinthians 1:10–17)

1As a prisoner in the Lord, then, I urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling you have received: 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. [Berean Study Bible]

 

[JLB]

For over twenty years as a believer, I was a dispensationalist. After being introduced to amillennialism, I set out to prove the Scriptures for myself and found myself proving myself WRONG. The Scriptures are clear in NUMEROUS places that Jesus and His Apostles taught His soon return in THEIR lifetime. I have been a Full Preterist for 30 years and the Bible continues to prove realized eschatology to be CORRECT.

I have been disfellowshipped by three churches, my salvation has been questioned, and "wise" pastors who cling to their creeds and thought themselves worthy of playing God kicked me out of GOD'S kingdom. I have also been cast out of numerous forums.

Those who malign those who embrace the scriptural teachings of realized eschatology (aka Full Preterism) and stamp a big H on our foreheads will have to give an account for their false accusations and their sin of casting out their fellow believers from fellowship. It will be a rude awakening for much of Christendom when they finally realize their grave errors. For some it might happen in this lifetime; for others they will not know the truth until they are taken to glory.

The Church is woefully wrong about the NATURE of the Second Coming and the NATURE of the Resurrection and the NATURE of the Judgment and that is why they cannot embrace the OBVIOUS timing of those events. Many Christians are stuck in their preconceptions about how things were supposed to play out--so much so that they are forced to manipulate, redefine, or ignore clear time statements--even those spoken by our Lord Himself!

Sadly, Christians are intimidated by anything that disagrees with their false futurism so that they will not even communicate with us. To reject something one does not understand is unjustified. Futurists point their fingers at us and cry foul because they refuse to allow us to present OUR understanding of the NATURE of the Parousia, the Resurrection, and the Judgment. From our perspective, which we believe to be biblical, all of those things, when understood correctly, FIT perfectly with the timing. There is NO conflict. The Full Preterist (and biblical) paradigm is COHESIVE and HARMONIOUS within itself. Futurists take the tenets of their paradigm and try to impose them upon ours and then cry HERETIC when things don't fit. That is NOT fair!

TIME determines NATURE. Futurists determine the nature and then must twist and spin the time words to attempt to make them fit.

Sadly, futurists will never understand the Scriptures unless and until they become willing to place events and words within their proper HISTORICAL setting.

The writer of Hebrews wrote (in the A.D. 60s)--"In a VERY, VERY little while He who IS COMING WILL COME and will NOT DELAY" (10:37). No futurist has ever even attempted to exegete that passage. But it defends the full preterist and condemns the futurist!

I will shake the dust off of my feet and take my leave from this forum. Truth is suppressed here. Your stubborn refusal to even let us speak is egregious and inexcusable. The Jews missed His Advent because they looked for the wrong king and the wrong kingdom. Sadly, many in the Church have missed His second coming for the very same reasons. The cry goes out, "Jesus is coming SOON!" Really? Jesus and His Apostles used that same word, yet many do not believe them. Many use that term today and expect everyone to understand it in its normal, usual, common, reasonable meaning. Why won't they allow it to mean that very same thing when it came from the lips of OUR LORD!

Jesus said: "Behold, I am coming SOON." And He did--or He lied! Be careful of what you believe lest you dishonor the Lord you claim to love.

https://christianforums.net/threads/promoting-full-preterism.47274/

As of today, promoting the doctrine of Full Preterism is violation of the ToS. Every member is urged to stay current with our entire ToS, but contributors to this forum will need to be particularly aware of this change.



Please read the TOS provided in the heading of the Preterism Section of the End Times Forum.


Please do not promote the heretical teachings of full preterism.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus said: "Behold, I am coming SOON." And He did--or He lied! Be careful of what you believe lest you dishonor the Lord you claim to love.

Do you believe the resurrection of the dead in Christ is past?



JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

https://christianforums.net/threads/promoting-full-preterism.47274/

As of today, promoting the doctrine of Full Preterism is violation of the ToS. Every member is urged to stay current with our entire ToS, but contributors to this forum will need to be particularly aware of this change.



Please read the TOS provided in the heading of the Preterism Section of the End Times Forum.


Please do not promote the heretical teachings of full preterism.




JLB

I’m not sure of my own exact position but it seems to me that silencing those who disagree with one’s theology displays a fruit that is not evidence of holding the truth. You see, the truth is not afraid of untruth. Light is not afraid of the darkness. Untruth endeavors to silence all challenges, including truth. Darkness wants to extinguish light. Even Jesus didn’t demand liars he silent. He only warned people so that could figure out themselves. But I have noticed that in “christian” discussion sites, those in charge insist on their thinking and significant challenges are silenced.

 

[Exeter]

I’m not sure of my own exact position but it seems to me that silencing those who disagree with one’s theology displays a fruit that is not evidence of holding the truth. You see, the truth is not afraid of untruth. Light is not afraid of the darkness. Untruth endeavors to silence all challenges, including truth. Darkness wants to extinguish light. Even Jesus didn’t demand liars he silent. He only warned people so that could figure out themselves. But I have noticed that in “christian” discussion sites, those in charge insist on their thinking and significant challenges are silenced.

We can be guided by Paul the Apostle:

Rom 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

Tit 1:10-11 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, (11) whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

Tit 3:10-11 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, (11) knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

 

[journeyman]

For over twenty years as a believer, I was a dispensationalist. After being introduced to amillennialism, I set out to prove the Scriptures for myself and found myself proving myself WRONG. The Scriptures are clear in NUMEROUS places that Jesus and His Apostles taught His soon return in THEIR lifetime. I have been a Full Preterist for 30 years and the Bible continues to prove realized eschatology to be CORRECT.

I have been disfellowshipped by three churches, my salvation has been questioned, and "wise" pastors who cling to their creeds and thought themselves worthy of playing God kicked me out of GOD'S kingdom. I have also been cast out of numerous forums.

Those who malign those who embrace the scriptural teachings of realized eschatology (aka Full Preterism) and stamp a big H on our foreheads will have to give an account for their false accusations and their sin of casting out their fellow believers from fellowship. It will be a rude awakening for much of Christendom when they finally realize their grave errors. For some it might happen in this lifetime; for others they will not know the truth until they are taken to glory.

The Church is woefully wrong about the NATURE of the Second Coming and the NATURE of the Resurrection and the NATURE of the Judgment and that is why they cannot embrace the OBVIOUS timing of those events. Many Christians are stuck in their preconceptions about how things were supposed to play out--so much so that they are forced to manipulate, redefine, or ignore clear time statements--even those spoken by our Lord Himself!

Sadly, Christians are intimidated by anything that disagrees with their false futurism so that they will not even communicate with us. To reject something one does not understand is unjustified. Futurists point their fingers at us and cry foul because they refuse to allow us to present OUR understanding of the NATURE of the Parousia, the Resurrection, and the Judgment. From our perspective, which we believe to be biblical, all of those things, when understood correctly, FIT perfectly with the timing. There is NO conflict. The Full Preterist (and biblical) paradigm is COHESIVE and HARMONIOUS within itself. Futurists take the tenets of their paradigm and try to impose them upon ours and then cry HERETIC when things don't fit. That is NOT fair!

TIME determines NATURE. Futurists determine the nature and then must twist and spin the time words to attempt to make them fit.

Sadly, futurists will never understand the Scriptures unless and until they become willing to place events and words within their proper HISTORICAL setting.

The writer of Hebrews wrote (in the A.D. 60s)--"In a VERY, VERY little while He who IS COMING WILL COME and will NOT DELAY" (10:37). No futurist has ever even attempted to exegete that passage. But it defends the full preterist and condemns the futurist!

I will shake the dust off of my feet and take my leave from this forum. Truth is suppressed here. Your stubborn refusal to even let us speak is egregious and inexcusable. The Jews missed His Advent because they looked for the wrong king and the wrong kingdom. Sadly, many in the Church have missed His second coming for the very same reasons. The cry goes out, "Jesus is coming SOON!" Really? Jesus and His Apostles used that same word, yet many do not believe them. Many use that term today and expect everyone to understand it in its normal, usual, common, reasonable meaning. Why won't they allow it to mean that very same thing when it came from the lips of OUR LORD!

Jesus said: "Behold, I am coming SOON." And He did--or He lied! Be careful of what you believe lest you dishonor the Lord you claim to love.

For over twenty years as a believer, I was a dispensationalist. After being introduced to amillennialism, I set out to prove the Scriptures for myself and found myself proving myself WRONG. The Scriptures are clear in NUMEROUS places that Jesus and His Apostles taught His soon return in THEIR lifetime. I have been a Full Preterist for 30 years and the Bible continues to prove realized eschatology to be CORRECT.

I have been disfellowshipped by three churches, my salvation has been questioned, and "wise" pastors who cling to their creeds and thought themselves worthy of playing God kicked me out of GOD'S kingdom. I have also been cast out of numerous forums.

Those who malign those who embrace the scriptural teachings of realized eschatology (aka Full Preterism) and stamp a big H on our foreheads will have to give an account for their false accusations and their sin of casting out their fellow believers from fellowship. It will be a rude awakening for much of Christendom when they finally realize their grave errors. For some it might happen in this lifetime; for others they will not know the truth until they are taken to glory.

The Church is woefully wrong about the NATURE of the Second Coming and the NATURE of the Resurrection and the NATURE of the Judgment and that is why they cannot embrace the OBVIOUS timing of those events. Many Christians are stuck in their preconceptions about how things were supposed to play out--so much so that they are forced to manipulate, redefine, or ignore clear time statements--even those spoken by our Lord Himself!

Sadly, Christians are intimidated by anything that disagrees with their false futurism so that they will not even communicate with us. To reject something one does not understand is unjustified. Futurists point their fingers at us and cry foul because they refuse to allow us to present OUR understanding of the NATURE of the Parousia, the Resurrection, and the Judgment. From our perspective, which we believe to be biblical, all of those things, when understood correctly, FIT perfectly with the timing. There is NO conflict. The Full Preterist (and biblical) paradigm is COHESIVE and HARMONIOUS within itself. Futurists take the tenets of their paradigm and try to impose them upon ours and then cry HERETIC when things don't fit. That is NOT fair!

TIME determines NATURE. Futurists determine the nature and then must twist and spin the time words to attempt to make them fit.

Sadly, futurists will never understand the Scriptures unless and until they become willing to place events and words within their proper HISTORICAL setting.

The writer of Hebrews wrote (in the A.D. 60s)--"In a VERY, VERY little while He who IS COMING WILL COME and will NOT DELAY" (10:37). No futurist has ever even attempted to exegete that passage. But it defends the full preterist and condemns the futurist!

I will shake the dust off of my feet and take my leave from this forum. Truth is suppressed here. Your stubborn refusal to even let us speak is egregious and inexcusable. The Jews missed His Advent because they looked for the wrong king and the wrong kingdom. Sadly, many in the Church have missed His second coming for the very same reasons. The cry goes out, "Jesus is coming SOON!" Really? Jesus and His Apostles used that same word, yet many do not believe them. Many use that term today and expect everyone to understand it in its normal, usual, common, reasonable meaning. Why won't they allow it to mean that very same thing when it came from the lips of OUR LORD!

Jesus said: "Behold, I am coming SOON." And He did--or He lied! Be careful of what you believe lest you dishonor the Lord you claim to love.

Hello YouShallKnowTheTruth.
I'm not a full preterist person, but I have been rejected from congregations and forums as you were.
I believe "end time prophecies" are fulfilled in Christ, as each believer follows him, like an on going revelation.
Heb.10:37 is an on going truth, because our lives in this world are like vapor which lasts a short time. It's the same thing with the persecution believers face. Paul referred to it as light affliction. Our King taught this. He said his yoke was easy and his burden light. What he endured was horrific.
I do believe much of what we find difficult to understand disappears in Christ.

 

[JLB]

I’m not sure of my own exact position but it seems to me that silencing those who disagree with one’s theology displays a fruit that is not evidence of holding the truth.

First of all this rule was Implemented over 7 years ago, by the previous owner, and left in place by the current one.


Here is the truth about this topic —


But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18

• who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

This is just one of the things Preterism promotes, that Jesus Christ has returned and the resurrection is past.

That this occurred in 70 AD.

The scripture that I gave says this overthrows the faith of some, and that this false teaching will spread like cancer if allowed to.

Furthermore, those who teach this to God’s people have strayed from the truth. To put it another way, what they are teaching is a lie, something false, that spreads like cancer to destroy the body it has gotten ahold of.



I hope we can discuss these things in a peaceful way, and that you can see why its dangerous to the body of Christ to allow this ”doctrine” to “spread like cancer.”





JLB

 

[JLB]

Darkness wants to extinguish light.

Light exposes darkness.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1



JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Light exposes darkness.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1



JLB

It does. It doesn’t ban it from the room.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

First of all this rule was Implemented over 7 years ago, by the previous owner, and left in place by the current one.


Here is the truth about this topic —


But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18

• who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

This is just one of the things Preterism promotes, that Jesus Christ has returned and the resurrection is past.

That this occurred in 70 AD.

The scripture that I gave says this overthrows the faith of some, and that this false teaching will spread like cancer if allowed to.

Furthermore, those who teach this to God’s people have strayed from the truth. To put it another way, what they are teaching is a lie, something false, that spreads like cancer to destroy the body it has gotten ahold of.



I hope we can discuss these things in a peaceful way, and that you can see why its dangerous to the body of Christ to allow this ”doctrine” to “spread like cancer.”





JLB

I thought discussion is not allowed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We can be guided by Paul the Apostle:

Rom 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

Tit 1:10-11 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, (11) whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

Tit 3:10-11 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, (11) knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Avoiding is not banning nor silencing. It is a personal choice requiring the person so choosing to consider the matter, iow, think. banning all discussion means no thinking on the matter is allowing. A wise man thinks. A tyrant bans thinking.

 

[JLB]

I thought discussion is not allowed.

Who said discussion is not allowed?

 

[JLB]

Avoiding is not banning nor silencing. It is a personal choice requiring the person so choosing to consider the matter, iow, think. banning all discussion means no thinking on the matter is allowing. A wise man thinks. A tyrant bans thinking.

Do you think the resurrection is past?

Do you believe cancer destroys peoples lives?

Do you believe a harmful false doctrine that can overthrow someones faith, should be allowed to spread like cancer.


But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18



JLB

 

[JLB]

It does. It doesn’t ban it from the room.

Do you believe its a good thing to cut out a cancer from the body to save it from futher spreading?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do you believe its a good thing to cut out a cancer from the body to save it from futher spreading?

If we are to do as Jesus did or as God does, we should consider educating man’s thinking so that they grow wiser. I cannot recall a scripture where any Bible writer thought man’s thoughts were cancer that needed to lobotmized. Jesus said, “take care” not “take the knife to another man’s thoughts.” It’s a matter of character by so doing. That worries me more than the loss of intellectual freedom, what happens to the hearts of the idea tyrants. What kind of men do the controllers become? This saddens me.

 

[JLB]

If we are to do as Jesus did or as God does, we should consider educating man’s thinking so that they grow wiser. I cannot recall a scripture where any Bible writer thought man’s thoughts were cancer that needed to lobotmized. Jesus said, “take care” not “take the knife to another man’s thoughts.” It’s a matter of character by so doing. That worries me more than the loss of intellectual freedom, what happens to the hearts of the idea tyrants. What kind of men do the controllers become? This saddens me.

I don’t know anything about lobotomizing anyones thoughts, nor did I mention any such things.


Here are the questions I asked and the scripture I presented —

Do you think the resurrection is past?

Do you believe cancer destroys peoples lives?

Do you believe a harmful false doctrine that can overthrow someones faith, should be allowed to spread like cancer.


But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18



JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don’t know anything about lobotomizing anyones thoughts, nor did I mention any such things.

D: My apologies. You referred to another believer’s thoughts as “cancer,” clearly a metaphor, and I took the matter a step further. You spoke of cutting out another man’s thoughts. Make no mistake, if there is no free speech, it feels like the thoughts and words are cut out.

Here are the questions I asked and the scripture I presented —

Do you think the resurrection is past?

D: Jesus was resurrected. A number of dead people were seen in the city after he was resurrected. The report is not that they were decayed corpses walking around.

Do you believe cancer destroys peoples lives?

D: That is an insulting question. Do you believe the thoughts people have are cancer and need to be irradiated or cut out by any means available?

Do you believe a harmful false doctrine that can overthrow someones faith, should be allowed to spread like cancer.

D: Jesus said to be aware of false teaching that will lead some astray. So here we see how the Kingdom of God works. Each man is responsible to train himself to be discerning and wise. He is not taught to use force to eliminate mental challenges. This is what the enemy does, kill those it considers a challenge.

So we can discern the opinions/views presented to us on theological matters by the CHARACTER of the one presenting. If a man burns his opponents at the stake, metaphorically or otherwise, we can Know that what they teach is not in alignment with the teachings of Jesus whose disciples/apostles loved their opponent.

But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18

D: “Shun” not silence. I suppose that is one of these “one man” bible versions.


Even an angel of God, when dealing with the devil, didn’t treat him like cancer.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do you believe its a good thing to cut out a cancer from the body to save it from futher spreading?

Sometimes applying powerful energy from the outside is deemed preferable when surgery is too risky.

Justifying your eliminating challenging thoughts with force by deciding to arbitrarily call intellectually challenges “cancer” won’t fly. Thoughts are never cancer even though you like the metaphor.