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Growth "Reasoning Together" (Isa 1:18)

netchaplain

Member
Threads such as this one will constantly be posted in this forum two or three times each week. May God's guidance be with us as we seek encouragement from the Scriptures, and teaching from the "Holy Ghost"--through one another!

Hating the Old Life


When Jesus commanded to “hate one’s own life” (Luke 14:26) I believe He was at least referring to avoiding the concept of attributing importance to self and any other, above His life (Mat 10:37). This could also include reference to our old life or “old man,” where we are instructed to “hate evil” (Psa 97:10).

Putting Christ first is the work of the Spirit in regeneration, and therefore it must also be His work of our “being conformed” (Rom 8:29); which is by His opposition to the “old man” (flesh—sinful nature—Gal 5:17), in causing “the deeds of the body” to be “mortified” (Rom 8:13).

The Spirit’s work against the old self (old Adamic nature) which arouses our physical members (bodily parts—hands, eyes, etc.) is primarily against, not the physical body itself, but the members of that “body of sin,” listed in Romans 6:6, and exemplified in Colossians 3:5.
-NC

Study Material: 1-6. FULLNESS OF SELF: http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

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Do you have something you could add to Net's point farouk?

I was basically saying that for the Isaiah verse, which speaks of sins which were as scarlet, becoming white as snow (Isaiah 1.18), the verse in question, shows the blessedness of being granted a clear conscience by faith, and this is very valuable.

I guess this was my point, maybe a bit in shorthand, I don't know.

It's a possession which we should not cease to seek out until the Lord has given it to us, by faith in the Lord Jesus.

Blessings.
 
I was basically saying that for the Isaiah verse, which speaks of sins which were as scarlet, becoming white as snow (Isaiah 1.18), the verse in question, shows the blessedness of being granted a clear conscience by faith, and this is very valuable.

I guess this was my point, maybe a bit in shorthand, I don't know.

Blessings.
I like that Farouk! Thanks for the replies!
 
I read somewhere....commentary on The Bible...that, sometimes, to "hate" means to reject. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it makes sense. Doesn't The Bible somewhere say that followers of Christ must hate not only themselves but also any family who are not Christian/opposing their walk? Something about bringing a sword, family members against family members? This is off the top of my head. I tried to use The Google, but my browser keeps messing up...

...anyway, if "hate" is taken more to mean reject than actual, visceral hatred as we understand it, then rejecting one's life would make a lot of sense. You must lose your life in order to gain it, you must die to be born again, etc. Rejecting who you were and, to a certain extent, who you are and the world you find yourself in seems to be consistent with staying on the narrow path, "eyes fixed on the cross."

I'm not trying to second guess you or anything, just popping up with some random stuff I read while in Teen Challenge (they let me read pretty much anything). They were Pentecostal w/ some Southern Baptists thrown in there to keep it interesting, so that's obviously going to have an impact on what I read and what I was taught.

TC was big (for obvious reasons) on "taming the flesh," "crucify(ing) self daily," and keeping the "old man" in check. I liked your point that we don't hate the physical world or our flesh (physical, bodily selves), but rather the sin that has previously taken over our lives (slaves of sin vs slaves of righteousness) and, if left unchecked, could do so again (sin crouching at the door; the evil one, roaming the earth like a lion, seeking whom he may devour). "Hatred" of self, the (literal) flesh, and the world leads to easily to Gnostic-type thinking and asceticism, in my opinion.

Ugh. I'm rambling. I just got a caffeine fix from Dunkin Donuts again (get this: 1 donut and 1 large iced coffee, mocha flavored...$2 and some change!).

I liked your post.
 
I read somewhere....commentary on The Bible...that, sometimes, to "hate" means to reject. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it makes sense. Doesn't The Bible somewhere say that followers of Christ must hate not only themselves but also any family who are not Christian/opposing their walk? Something about bringing a sword, family members against family members? This is off the top of my head.

Hi CE - Thanks for your reply. The hate is towards the old nature in the people, not the people, which we are to love.

This is a good Bible to use free online and you can shortcut it to your desktop. You can look for anything in Scripture in the search box and if you need assistance please let me know.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
 
thanks! OK, I get it now. Also, I'm caffeinated, so keep that in mind.

Thanks for the link! Hopefully, my browser will let me use it...
 
Let me know how you come out. I will be glad to show you everything useful for searching in the Bible and using the Greek dictionary in the Blue Letter Bible.
 
oh no, I need to grow in knowledge. Don't worry about putting too much on me...cool thing about internet based learning: its pretty much self-paced.

I like this new "Foundation of Faith" forum. I feel like I'm being challenged.
 
Reba, can I know your thoughts about the debate issue with the Reasoning Together thread, if you've formed any about it yet? Hope I'm not moving too fast.
 
There is a fine line between debate and discussion.... Discussion is encouraged... Highly encouraged.... You set a pleasant tone in your threads Net.... In respect to the established rules , this thread can be relocated if it gets out of line or at your request. Also other measures can be taken... Your forum, your thread, your call.
 
There is a fine line between debate and discussion.... Discussion is encouraged... Highly encouraged.... You set a pleasant tone in your threads Net.... In respect to the established rules , this thread can be relocated if it gets out of line or at your request. Also other measures can be taken... Your forum, your thread, your call.
Thanks Reba for the quick reply and decisions, which are informed as usual and will be contemplating and praying about it. I also need further clarification on what you mean by "this thread can be relocated if it gets out of line."
 
I read somewhere....commentary on The Bible...that, sometimes, to "hate" means to reject. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it makes sense. Doesn't The Bible somewhere say that followers of Christ must hate not only themselves but also any family who are not Christian/opposing their walk? Something about bringing a sword, family members against family members? This is off the top of my head. I tried to use The Google, but my browser keeps messing up...

...anyway, if "hate" is taken more to mean reject than actual, visceral hatred as we understand it, then rejecting one's life would make a lot of sense. You must lose your life in order to gain it, you must die to be born again, etc. Rejecting who you were and, to a certain extent, who you are and the world you find yourself in seems to be consistent with staying on the narrow path, "eyes fixed on the cross."

I'm not trying to second guess you or anything, just popping up with some random stuff I read while in Teen Challenge (they let me read pretty much anything). They were Pentecostal w/ some Southern Baptists thrown in there to keep it interesting, so that's obviously going to have an impact on what I read and what I was taught.

TC was big (for obvious reasons) on "taming the flesh," "crucify(ing) self daily," and keeping the "old man" in check. I liked your point that we don't hate the physical world or our flesh (physical, bodily selves), but rather the sin that has previously taken over our lives (slaves of sin vs slaves of righteousness) and, if left unchecked, could do so again (sin crouching at the door; the evil one, roaming the earth like a lion, seeking whom he may devour). "Hatred" of self, the (literal) flesh, and the world leads to easily to Gnostic-type thinking and asceticism, in my opinion.

Ugh. I'm rambling. I just got a caffeine fix from Dunkin Donuts again (get this: 1 donut and 1 large iced coffee, mocha flavored...$2 and some change!).

I liked your post.


NetChaplain, interesting and edifying post as usual from our Lord through you. :)

CE, Another useful tool is E-Sword. It is a free downloadable Concordance based on the Strongs version of translation from the original language. I looked up the word hate since you spoke of it, and so shall post my findings for your perusal.

Hate (From Luke 14:26)

Hate G3404
μισέω
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful)./(E-sword)

So "To love less" Let's look at Love;

There are three types of love described in scripture, and I find that phlieo seems to be the most appropriate version due to context of topic. So here is Phileo (Love)

Love G5368

φιλέω
phileō
fil-eh'-o
From G5384; to be a friend to (fond of [an individual or an object]), that is, have affection for (denoting personal attachment, as a matter of sentiment or feeling; while G25 is wider, embracing especially the judgment and the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety: the two thus stand related very much as G2309 and G1014, or as G2372 and G3563 respectively; the former being chiefly of the heart and the latter of the head); specifically to kiss (as a mark of tenderness): - kiss, love./(e-sword)

I read this six comparative entries listed above and found that the G2309 entry to have insight into the understanding of your question/statements.

G2309
θέλω, ἐθέλω
thelō ethelō
thel'-o, eth-el'-o
Either the first or the second form may be used. In certain tenses θελέω theleō thel-eh'-o (and ἐθέλέω etheleō eth-el-eh'-o) are used, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active voice option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive voice acquiescence in objective considerations), that is, choose or prefer (literally or figuratively); by implication to wish, that is, be inclined to (sometimes adverbially gladly); impersonally for the future tense, to be about to; by Hebraism to delight in: - desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, -ling [ly])./(e-sword)

So I am taking this to read more along the lines of "to choose, prefer, or acquiesce to less." Perhaps reject could be loosely used as a term in situations where a decision would need to be made of a secular nature. Not that we are to emotionally hate our unbelieving friends/relatives or self, but to choose (or reject) those (temptations) that arise, in favor of the Lord and His ways. His name is above all names, and His ways are what we strive for. To be obedient and to come closer to Him in intimacy. To walk with Him always, every moment of every day and (in my mind) to hardly speak of anything else!
 
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