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Bible Study Reconciled to God

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beloved57

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Jesus christ died to reconcile us [the elect] to God rom 5:



10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



2 cor 5:



19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.



Notice it says that the elect are reconciled to God and not God reconciled to us !



This is because God always and forever Loved His chosen ones, even when we were dead in sins and enemies in our minds towards him.



By nature, there is an enmity, a hatred we have towards God col 1:



21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled



2Wherein in time past ye[ The chosen ones eph 1:4] walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:



3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.



Now, all those who have been reconciled by the death of Jesus christ, has had satans work destroyed on their behalf..1 jn 3:



8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.



destroy is the greek word:

lyÃ…Â:

1) to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened

a) bandages of the feet, the shoes,

b) of a husband and wife joined together by the bond of matrimony

c) of a single man, whether he has already had a wife or has not yet married

2) to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free

a) of one bound up (swathed in bandages)

b) bound with chains (a prisoner), discharge from prison, let go

3) to loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together

a) an assembly, i.e. to dismiss, break up

b) laws, as having a binding force, are likened to bonds

c) to annul, subvert

d) to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act

e) to declare unlawful

f) to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy

g) to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy

h) metaph., to overthrow, to do away with



This is a powerful word, it gives the sense of that as when lazaruz was loosed from the grave.. jn 11:



43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.



Jesus illustrates his power and force of destroying the death that Gods elect met with and experienced in our fall in adam and died..heb 2:



14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;



Jesus had made death, for His chosen people, null and void, and powerless..



Because of Jesus christ reconciling work of the cross, for the elect, for the people as heb 2:



17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people



Satans work, our captivity to him, our deception by him, and death by him, all has been destroyed on our behalf, ensuring our new spiritual life, giving us a mind, a new mind, no longer at enemity with God..This is a new resurrected life from the dead..



Amen, Just as the Lord Jesus christ was released from death, because of the devils work against him..remeber , the devil put it into judas heart to betray christ jn 13:



2And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;



so like wise, the children given to him the elect, are released from and quickened into newness of life by the same spirit of God..1 pet 3:



18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit



eph 2:



4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)



This is intimated in hos 6:



2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.



this describes the elects union with their head, as we died with him and are raised with him, and because he lives, we shall live also..



The same great Love God had towards His Son, the Lord Jesus christ when he raised him from the dead jn 10:



17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. God has and exercises the same Love to his wicked elect and quickens us from the dead eph 2:



4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)



God loved us the elect the same as His son jn 17:



23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.



This is why its absurd to think, believe, and teach, that any whom God loves, will ever spend eternity seperated from him in the lake of fire and experience eternal corruption and damnation..for as he suffered not His Son to see corruption, because of His Love, neither will he suffer His sons bride, body, seed, to see corruption..



ps 16:



10For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.



even the elect who have died and their bodies did see corruption, there is hope in their death 1 cor 15:



52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?



because of being reconciled by the death of Jesus christ, all those thus reconciled shall be[ a promise] saved by His Life..



10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



This being saved by christ life, is his resurrected life, by which he begotten us again unto a lively hope 1 pet 1:



3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,[ his Life]



he saves by regeneration titus 3:



5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,[ how?] by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;



amen, being reconciled by christ death, guareentees being saved by regeneration, partaking of christ resurrected life..He enusres this as he ever liveth to make intercession for those he reconciled..heb 7:



25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.



You see that ? The enimity is gone..instead of hiding from God as we did in adam, we come to God, with a reconciled mind and heart, believing and trusting..



This is true biblical reconciliation, and fruits and effects of christ death and reconciliation of His people..

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
 
Christ died and rose again for all of fallen creation.
 
one_lost_coin said:
Christ died and rose again for all of fallen creation.

Yes, but satan and his seed are not included in the fall..only the elect in adam..
 
what does only for the elect in Christ mean? Does it mean he only died for one of the thieves that was crucified with Him?
 
one_lost_coin said:
what does only for the elect in Christ mean? Does it mean he only died for one of the thieves that was crucified with Him?

The elect are a chosen special people..like Israel was and typifed..
 
beloved57 said:
one_lost_coin said:
what does only for the elect in Christ mean? Does it mean he only died for one of the thieves that was crucified with Him?

The elect are a chosen special people..like Israel was and typifed..

So if I were to plug in that definition in place of the word elect I come up with this sentence.

"Christ died only for the chosen special people."

Does this sum up your belief?
 
"
Christ died only for the chosen special people."

Yes..david says: ps 106:

5That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance

paul writes eph 1:

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 
When Adam sinned, that sin was imputed to ALL MEN, not a few but all mankind. The object of election for Israel is to save a remnant, so all would not be lost. While I do believe in election among the gentiles, I still say this does not close the door to freewill. If you are not careful! you can make an elitist doctrine of election, as Calvin did.

M't:22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen.
 
When Adam sinned, that sin was imputed to ALL MEN, not a few but all mankind

Not so..satan was already the enemy of God before adams sin..so that would mean his seed, or descendants was too..

so adams sin only caused the elect in him guilt..satans seed has guilt from their father the devil..

jn 8:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

These have their being of origin in satan..of His seed..now they do derive their physical natures from the natural biological way as adams children, the elect, but thats all, their spiritual constitution will always be of the devil..
 
God created all of mankind in His likeness and for a relationship with Him. Your statement "These have their being of origin in sataan..of His seed.." is a gross error No human being originated in sataan, I can hardly believe what I am reading. It's a fundamental truth and no understanding of predestination should have any room for such an error. Be careful with such things.

1 Timothy 2:3: This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4: who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5: For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6: who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.

Jesus died for every single human being that has been born and ever will be born including those who may ultimately reject Him and eternal life with Him. God is love.
 
beloved57 said:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
While it is commonly argued that this text shows that we are "by nature" unable to turn to God, it actually is ambiguous in respect to such a claim.

Consider the phrase "by nature" as per this from Ephesians 2.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

When we read this as 21st century westerners, we think that when the phrase “by nature†is used, a statement is being made about our fundamental constitution. On such a reading, and noting the content of verse 1, it might indeed appear that Paul is saying that it is impossible for us to respond freely to God’s grace. After all, it is in the very nature of our mind to reject anything from God.

But there is precedent for Paul using the term "by nature" to really say "by birth".

Here is an example, Galations 2:15:

We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles

Clearly, Paul means "by birth" here. He is not asserting that Jews are born with fundamentally different inner constitutions than Gentiles.

And the Greek word rendered as "by nature" is the same word as used in a clearly "by birth" sense in Galatians 2:15. Here is Ephesians 2:1-3:

Ephesians 2:3 reads perfectly well with a "by birth" reading. And being "children of wrath" by birth in no way rules out a free will response to God in the way that being "children of wrath" by fundamental inner constitution indeed might.

So, unless and until the ambiguity of what Paul means by the phrase "by nature" is resolved Ephesians 2:1-3 does not support the notion that we cannot freely accept a gift of grace.
 
beloved57 said:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
A good but lengthy argument exists as to why the "us" here should be interpreted not as a general reference to all Christians, but rather declaring that God did indeed pre-destine a very specific set of New Testament "prophets and saints".
 
Further on the matter of the extent to which unregenerate man can respond "freely" to God (and I apologize if someone has already made this argument):

From Romans 1:18 and following

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitiesâ€â€his eternal power and divine natureâ€â€have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

This text shows that, notwithstanding texts like Ephesians 2:1, even “spiritually dead†people have moral awareness.

Despite being spiritually dead, Paul says those who "suppress the truth by their wickedness" nevertheless know that which may be known of God. Indeed God has revealed it to them. If being “spiritually dead†really implied an incapacity to discern and understand the things of God, then why is Paul ascribing this very trait to them here?

Clearly the statement about being “without excuse†only makes sense if the unregenerate has some capacity to recognize and respond to God, which he has elected (freely) to not exercise. And we have already been told about the existence of this capacity in this same block of text.
 
God created all of mankind in His likeness and for a relationship with Him

sorry, no he did not..satan was already created and seperated from God before adam who was created in Gods image and likeness fell..
 
beloved57 said:
God created all of mankind in His likeness and for a relationship with Him

sorry, no he did not..satan was already created and seperated from God before adam who was created in Gods image and likeness fell..

sataan as well as the other fallen angels are not members of mankind.

Every human being ever born and that ever will be born was created out of an infinite love and for love, to have a relationship with God.

We all have free will, even sataan had freewill, even sataan was created good and fell. God will not force any angel or human to love Him.

God is Love.
 
sataan as well as the other fallen angels are not members of mankind.

satan has been given a seed, if you dont believe this you dont believe the bible..gen 3:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

This seed is made up of men..Jn 8:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

matt 23:
33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

These people are not made in the image of God..

even the elect, have not that image anymore until regenerated.. col 3:

10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

We all have free will,

Not according to Jesus, he plainly told those in Jn 8 44 the lust of their father ye shall do

and the lusts of your father ye will do

Doesnt sound like freewill to me, but wills under control of satan..
 
beloved57 said:
Not according to Jesus, he plainly told those in Jn 8 44 the lust of their father ye shall do

and the lusts of your father ye will do

Doesnt sound like freewill to me, but wills under control of satan..
Here is the text with a little context:

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

I think that this text does indeed demonstrate that the people Jesus is talking about are indeed "enslaved". But, this text in no way demonstrates that they have always been enslaved.

I suggest that there is a long Biblical tradition of God allowing people to become "hardened". But I see no reason to conclude that they "born that way".

Are you simply assuming that, because they are enslaved now, that the people Jesus is talking to have always been enslaved?
 
Here is the text with a little context:

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

This does nothing to change the stated truth..the devils children are going to do the will of their father..

The Lust of your ye will do..

Its a present tense verb, denoting in state, and permanency..The only thing that can change this state is regeneration, but thats limited to the elect or the children of God, not the children of the devil..

gal 4:

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The Spirit is sent to regenerate the sons of God by election and adoption..these occured before the world began..
 
It's not a matter of not believing the bible it is a matter of not believing and with good reason your erroneous interpretation of the bible.

No understanding of predestination can deny that man was made with freewill. God does not send or create people for hell. People choose hell over God. People are in hell because they want to be in hell. Jesus Christ died and rose again for every single human being that ever lived and will ever be born. If the reality of both predestination and the reality of freewill may seem impossible but they are not, they are however paradoxical and that is just the way it is. There are many other paradoxes in the bible the Trinity not being the least of which.

The Bible maintains that there is a sense in which Christ died for all men. John 4:42 describes Christ as "the Savior of the world," and 1 John 2:2 states that Christ "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 Timothy 4:10 describes God as "the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." These passages, as well as the official teaching of the Church, [See Ott, 188f], require us to affirm that Christ died to atone for all men.

Aquinas stated, "Christ's passion was not only a sufficient but a superabundant atonement for the sins of the human race; according to 1 John 2:2, 'He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.'" [ST III:48:2].

This is not to say there is no sense in which limitation may be ascribed to the atonement. While the grace it provided is sufficient to pay for the sins of all men, this grace is not made efficacious (put into effect) in the case of everyone. One may say that although the sufficiency of the atonement is not limited, its efficiency is limited. This is something everyone who believes in hell must acknowledge because, if the atonement was made efficacious for everyone, then no one would end up in hell.

The difference between the atonement's sufficiency and its efficiency accounts for Paul's statement that God is "the Savior of all men, especially those who believe." [1 Timothy 4:10]. God is the Savior of all men because he arranged a sacrifice sufficient for all men. He is the Savior of those who believe in a special and superior sense because these have the sacrifice made efficacious for them. According to Aquinas, "[Christ] is the propitiation for our sins, efficaciously for some, but sufficiently for all, because the price of his blood is sufficient for the salvation of all; but it has its effect only in the elect." [Commentary on Titus, I, 2:6.].

One also may say that, in going to the cross, Christ intended to make salvation possible for all men, but he did not intend to make salvation actual for all men--otherwise we would have to say that Christ went to the cross intending that all men would end up in heaven. This is clearly not the case. [Matthew 18:7-9, 22:13, 24:40f, 51, 25:30, Mark 9:48, Luke 3:17, 16:19-31, and especially Matthew 7:13f, 26:24, Luke 13:23ff, and Acts 1:25.]. One therefore may say that the atonement is limited in efficacy, if not in sufficiency, and that God intended it to be this way. [Although one must be sure to maintain that God desires the salvation of all men, as the Church teaches. 1 Timothy 2:4 states God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." See also Ezekiel 33:11. This does not conflict with God's intent to save only some, since a person may desire one thing but intend another. A father may desire to not punish his son, but he may intend to do so nonetheless]. While one could not say that the atonement was limited in that it was made only for the elect, he could say that the atonement was limited in that God only intended it to be efficacious for the elect (although he intended it to be sufficient for all).

Your beliefs must account for every verse and book of the bible not just the ones you like because they support your belief and then ignore every other verse that you don't agree with.
 
beloved57 said:
Its a present tense verb, denoting in state, and permanency..The only thing that can change this state is regeneration, but thats limited to the elect or the children of God, not the children of the devil..
You are not addressing the objection. The fact that the people to whom Jesus is speaking are now in a state of permanent and total depravity does not mean that they always were.
 
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