religion in school

[therealsuperman64]

We all knew it would come this. It's never been about respecting different religions and not offending anyone. This is just another attack on Christianity. Everything is fine until you mention Jesus, then there's a problem. Soon they're going to to start persecuting us for our faith so this is just the beginning. This is real mild compared to what's ahead.

 

[lianna7]

Well all of us who study the Bible know that those who believe in Jesus will be persacuted period. It will come to the point we will have to die for our beliefes sad but true. As to the schools I hate what has happened I remeber saying the Lords Prayer first thing and then doing the pledge of alegence . Times are getting worse and worse for Christians.

 

[Gabe]

The same is happening here in the UK. Only 3 in every 10 primary schools re-enacted the Nativity last year, the reason given was that many schools were afraid it may insult the Muslim parents, even though they take young Christian kids on day trips to mosques and now they even hand out Islamic 'goody bags' in some school. Its partly our fault I think, as we need to speak-out against things like this.

 

[turnorburn]

We all knew it would come this. It's never been about respecting different religions and not offending anyone. This is just another attack on Christianity. Everything is fine until you mention Jesus, then there's a problem. Soon they're going to to start persecuting us for our faith so this is just the beginning. This is real mild compared to what's ahead.

When your friends and families begin to sneer at you then you will know what it means to belong to Christ.

 

[Siderealex]

When your friends and families begin to sneer at you then you will know what it means to belong to Christ.

That's not persecution. And we should caution ourselves from using such language, because it is a slap in the face to Christians and people in general everywhere in history and now who have and are suffering true persecutions.

Agree!!
However, I dont mind quite so much that evolution is taught in schools, as that they are putting one very often disproved theory into truth and a source towards contradicting religion, then placed as religion.

This is a common laymen mistake. In general use of the word, theory is used to denote a guess ie a hypothesis. A scientific theory is not a guess or hypothesis. That is a scientific hypothesis. A scientific theory is simply the explanation of the mechanics of scientific FACTS, in this case that evolution occurs. Germ theory, Theory of Gravity, and so on and so forth. So it should always be understand what a scientific theory means. It's also not a religion.

However, I dont mind quite so much that evolution is taught in schools, as that they are putting one very often disproved theory into truth and a source towards contradicting religion, then placed as religion.

When the men who framed our constitution decided to separate state and religion. It was to protect the state and it's citizens from religion, and to protect religions from the state. Religion and governments mixing is dangerous, even to the people that think that they would be safe because the religion being mixed is their own.

 

[Gabe]

One thing I always ask Christians or Atheists when they defend Islam being pushed more than other religions in our children's school (apparently to ease tension between the west and Islamists and also to make Islam more acceptable and normal) is: Would any of you as parents, honestly be happy if your daughter decided to convert to Islam? A religion that actively promotes sexism, where females are not even allowed in there mosques to worship their 'god' or where females are not even allowed to attend mosque funerals of their own husband or father. A religion where their testimony is worth only half of a man's and their husband is allowed by its law to strike their wives and marry a further 3. A religion where the husband need only say the word 'talach' 3 time to divorce his wife while she has no right to a divorce. A religion which claims that a women can only enter paradise if she pleases her husband. Unless the western world has gone totally PC insane, there is seriously only one answer to my question.

 

[turnorburn]

Before to long this will all be mute..

Here are 37 of the 51 countries that it is illegal to carry a Bible in:

China
Indonesia
Nigeria
North Korea
Pakistan
Sudan
Cuba
Colombia
Morocco
Mauritania
Algeria
Libya
Egypt
Somalia
Turkey
Syria
Kuwait
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Yemen
Oman
United Arab Emirates (UAE)
Iran
Iraq
Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS)
Afghanistan
Nepal
India
Bangladesh
Sri Lanka
Bhutan
Burma (Myanmar)
Malaysia
Laos
Eritrea
Maldives
Tibet

 

[Vic C.]

Colombia? Are you sure Lee? What is your source for this info? Now if you had said many Colombians are too poor to buy a Bible or that Guerilla or Rebel troops make it difficult to distribute Bible, then I would agree.

But I do not believe Bibles are illegal as far as the Colombian government is concerned. Actually, I'm pretty sure about that. It is the rebel factions that consider Christians their enemies in Colombia.

 

[Paidion]

I also question Myanmar. Although the government of Myanmar is anti-Christian, all around its periphery tribal people dwell, and most of them are Baptist Christians. I have a friend from Myanmar whom I while taking a Greek course at a Bible college. After his training, he returned to Myanmar, and is a leader among the Baptists their. I am sue the Baptist Christians there carry Bibles.

 

[Vic C.]

Colombia? Are you sure Lee? What is your source for this info?

Never mind. I found it at Yahoo Answers. :o I trust Wikipedia more than Yahoo. :-?

 

[platos_cave]

wait a minute I thought religion was not allowed to be taught in school. I thought the separation of church and state was the rule of the land here.. seems to me that the only religion they don't want in school is Christianity, if you believe in God or more to the point Jesus, well well we can't have that, we will poison the minds of the little ones, what in the world is going on, they kick our God out just to push there god down our young one throat..

While I disagree with your whining, I agree that any religion, be it humanism not be promoted by school officials.

Was the essay writer a student?

along with their god of evolution, but wait evolution is fact! yea, I have bridge for sale 50 miles west of SF city to.

If you have problems with evolutionary theory, then come over to the Science board and we can discuss your issues with it.

 

[platos_cave]

We all knew it would come this. It's never been about respecting different religions and not offending anyone. This is just another attack on Christianity. Everything is fine until you mention Jesus, then there's a problem. Soon they're going to to start persecuting us for our faith so this is just the beginning. This is real mild compared to what's ahead.

Yep, that's right, you guys are party to the largest religion in the world and you're being oppressed. :

 

[Gabe]

i agree that refering to American Christians as 'persecuted' is a little over the top but belonging to the largest belief system in the world does not give you safety. Christians have been persecuted since the times of Christ and it shows no signs of ending any time soon. Just take a look at what is happening in India, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bangladesh, China, Algeria and dozens of other eastern countries. Christians (men, women and children) are being kidnapped, slaughtered, raped, tortured, churches are being burnt or bulldozed, homes and businesses are being confiscated and in many of these countries, it is illigal to carry a Bible, celebrate Christmas and other festivals and you can recieve long jail sentences (and even the death sentence) for being a Christian. Western media and the population in general seem all too willing to ignore the suffering of millions of innocent Christians in the east. Nothing much to laugh about there.

 

[platos_cave]

i agree that refering to American Christians as 'persecuted' is a little over the top but belonging to the largest belief system in the world does not give you safety. Christians have been persecuted since the times of Christ and it shows no signs of ending any time soon. Just take a look at what is happening in India, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bangladesh, China, Algeria and dozens of other eastern countries. Christians (men, women and children) are being kidnapped, slaughtered, raped, tortured, churches are being burnt or bulldozed, homes and businesses are being confiscated and in many of these countries, it is illigal to carry a Bible, celebrate Christmas and other festivals and you can recieve long jail sentences (and even the death sentence) for being a Christian. Western media and the population in general seem all too willing to ignore the suffering of millions of innocent Christians in the east. Nothing much to laugh about there.

Not saying that persecution doesn't exist, since anyone at any time is a victim of persecution in some form or another, just that a monolithic religion as Christianity has no grounds for complaining about it being oppressed. The fact is that the US is a secular institution which is not supposed to promote any religion. I'm curious about the source of the quote as well, since it was offered up without any context.

Just because ONE person in an essay wrote what he thinks about Christianity bears absolutely no resemblance to the views of even other humanists, let alone atheists. Nor is it indicative of Christian oppression or bias in the US school system.

Fact is, I support the freedom of worship and the freedom of action within the context of individual rights. It isn't infringement upon me because a storefront chooses to display Christian values. If I'm offended I wont shop there. It isn't infringement if someone comes to my door and wishes to speak to me about their religion, even though it is a little intrusive.

It's infringement when ANYONE wants to push their values on other peoples children in an institution which is not meant to condition children about ethics and proper behavior. A school is supposed to provide a student with knowledge in general areas of science, mathematics, english and other disciplines. So the fact that somebody wrote an essay stating that he wants to push humanist values, which I don't personally agree with in schools is from my perspective, just as wrong.

 

[Gabe]

Our views on this are very similar, I agree that the essay does not speak for anyone other than the writer, I have no problem with evolution being taught in classrooms and i do think schools should take a neutral stance on religion. I cannot speak for Americans but as far as the UK is concerned, it is not the de-Christianizing going on in schools that bother me, its the reasoning behind it.

Primary Schools are stopping things like the Nativity play which is usually performed before the Christmas holidays and the singing of Christian hymns etc not to please Atheist or Humanists but because some of the Muslim parents find it offensive! The Muslim population here is about 2%-2.5%, they (which also includes my family) come to the UK from Islamic countries where the Christian populations of some are a lot higher than 2% but the Christians in those countries have less freedoms and rights than the animals do. Even then, i would say 'fine, I don't like it but so be it.' but they do not just leave it at that, many schools in the UK actively promote Islam by taking kids on day trips to mosques, they bring in Muslim clerics to speak to them during assembly etc and this is all in the name of 'easing cultural tensions' where is the neutrality in that? If it is as they say then where are the Rabbi's, Buddhist monks and Guru's? It is simply the fear of Muslim communities 'exploding' and throwing a wobbly that is prompting these changes and people are too gutless to acknowledge the fact.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Gabriel, this is all done in the name of Political Correctness. Right now it is Politically correct to promote Islamic cultures because they are seen as lesser than western societies. Since they are lesser, we need to promote them so they feel equal. Islam has become the charity case of many people for some reason or another.

What does this have to do with religion in schools? Well, in the US while it is becoming popular to say Christians can't pray at all, some schools make special allowances for Muslims to pray to keep up with their daily regiments. This is not done in favor of separation of church and state but it is done in the idea of helping the little guy. Just wait until that little guy decides to strab on a bomb and come to school...

And whoever thinks it'll never happen, Just remeber that this year's election WILL Make history in the US. Either we will elect our first Black President or we will elect our first Female Vice President. Both of which we thought would NEVER happen 150 years ago.

 

[Gabe]

Yes, and after decades of struggle for women to be considered the equal of man, the feminists have strangely fallen silent in regards to the growing number of Muslims in our society and their negative views and treatment of women and also the treatment of their own children. Is this to be taken as an agreement that it is somehow politicly correct to say that women posses only half the brain capacity of men, that they can only enter heaven by pleasing their husbands and that a husband should be allowed to physically discipline his inferior wife (or wives)? Is this somehow to be taken as an agreement that it is politicly correct to force under-age girls to marry middle-aged (and sometimes older) men from "back home"? Political correctness in the west is a joke and it reminds me of a quote I read once from somewhere or another "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil"

 

[Gabe]

Well, in the US while it is becoming popular to say Christians can't pray at all, some schools make special allowances for Muslims to pray to keep up with their daily regiments. This is not done in favor of separation of church and state but it is done in the idea of helping the little guy

Isn't this seen as bias in the US school system and are there any Atheists, Humanists (or even Christians) etc speaking out against this? In Islam if you are unable to pray at a certain time, you can make up for it at evening pray.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

[quote="Blazin Bones":1abswtu4]Well, in the US while it is becoming popular to say Christians can't pray at all, some schools make special allowances for Muslims to pray to keep up with their daily regiments. This is not done in favor of separation of church and state but it is done in the idea of helping the little guy

Isn't this seen as bias in the US school system and are there any Atheists, Humanists (or even Christians) etc speaking out against this? In Islam if you are unable to pray at a certain time, you can make up for it at evening pray.[/quote:1abswtu4]

What school says that a christian student can not pray?

 

[platos_cave]

Primary Schools are stopping things like the Nativity play which is usually performed before the Christmas holidays and the singing of Christian hymns etc not to please Atheist or Humanists but because some of the muslim parents find it offensive! The muslim population here is about 2%-2.5%, they (which also includes my family) come to the UK from islamic countries where the Christian popuations of some are a lot higher than 2% but the Christians in those countries have less freedoms and rights than the animals do. Even then, i would say 'fine, i dont like it but so be it.' but they do not just leave it at that, many schools in the UK actively promote islam by taking kids on day trips to mosques, they bring in muslim clerics to speak to them during assembly etc and this is all in the name of 'easing cultural tensions' where is the neutrality in that? If it is as they say then where are the Rabbi's, Budhist monks and Guru's? It is simply the fear of muslim communities 'exploding' and throwing a wobbly that is prompting these changes and people are too gutless to acknowledge the fact.

Well, I've already stated my views. I don't think any government should be promoting any religion. I think it's just as silly.