religion in school

[cyberjosh]

Alabama State Courts rule in favor of Bible being taught in School as literature

Hey guys n' gals. I posted this in a forum on another site only a week ago, and it seems to fit right in here. Be sure to click on the link for the 50-page preview of the approved text book for the Bible class and check it out for your self:

I literally stumbled on this while looking at legal cases in Alabama and discovered that in late 2007 Alabama approved a specific textbook on the study of the Bible as literature which it found even handed enough to be taught in schools, just as the Illiad might be taught in literature class. The book's name is The Bible and Its Influence (click here for another article on its use in public schools). Doubtful of how its reception might have turned out I immediately ran over to Amazon and was surprised to find that it had been fairly well-reviewed and has a high star rating.

And thanks to a helpful review that mentioned that you can read almost 50 consecutive pages for free on Google books of this textbook I was even more amazed to see that it is indeed quite neutral, and in its introduction addresses the legality of studying the subject as school material, and promises to emphasize the immense impact of the Bible in culture, and then dives into the historical development of the English Bible and also how it was composed, how the Jews viewed Scriptures, etc. in quite an impressive array for an introductory textbook. Also the image quality looks great with dozens of illustrations. It delves into some modern words that first appeared in the KJV, explores some Greek & Hebrew words relevant to understanding certain Biblical concepts, and explains the Bible's impact in history and in modern culture.

I would encourage you to look at this book for your self and tell me what you think. I say its about time that we even put this on the table of simply looking at the Bible as a profound piece of literature to be respected at least as other classic works are. I of course as a Christian have an "above & beyond" higher view of Scripture than simply cultural & historical considerations, but I appreciate the "reaching across the isle" and reasonableness with which the Alabama Courts corresponded with The Biblical Literacy Project representatives. Perhaps in the future this will appear in more high schools as an optional class, much as Religion 101 is offered for freshman level college credit.

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If you would like to see the original forum I posted it in see here (where my SN/alias is "DarkSaber"), I was suprised to see that many people actually were allowed to study the Bible briefly already in their class rooms. I didn't know schools let you do that, or maybe that was the teacher's choice. But that new book approved looks fairly neutral, and not bad for a school text book. Check out that book on amazon for more information and reviews.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Rick W]

The bible is indeed a masterpiece of fine literature. All one needs to do is read Job for it's mastery of language and expression of human thought. The majesty of the canonized text overall and the proficiency in technique and style of each author to make use of every word to present an idea, a thought, an image is definately a lesson in expression of what makes us who we are, God's creation.

 

[platos_cave]

Alabama State Courts rule in favor of Bible being taught in School as literature

Hey guys n' gals. I posted this in a forum on another site only a week ago, and it seems to fit right in here. Be sure to click on the link for the 50-page preview of the approved text book for the Bible class and check it out for your self:

Cool, I would have loved to take a class like that in High School. I have no problem with studying the Bible in classrooms, as long as it is not taught as fact.

Perhaps a "comparative religion" class would be more appropriate, as it would allow for a more even-handed approach...but that might be pretty complicated!

 

[VaultZero4Me]

I think most objective english professors would agree that this is a good idea as the Bible is the foundation of early lit.

 

[cyberjosh]

Cool, I would have loved to take a class like that in High School.

Same here, and I wish they would have.

I have no problem with studying the Bible in classrooms, as long as it is not taught as fact.

Well seperation of Church and State would automatically prevent that from happening. But that being said in my literature class my Senior year - although we did not discuss the Bible - we were allowed to write on a topic of our choosing on somewhat controversial subjects (some did theirs on abortion, communism, the "legality of spanking" [that one was a kicker ], etc...), and we also had to do a presentation of it before the class, and I did mine on the Bible's historical accuracy. The report called for 3 to 4 pages.... well I was on a roll and wrote 15 pages and made a poster with various archaeological artifacts found that back historical events mentioned in the Bible. I made an A+ on that for presention and research.

I think I shock & awe'd the class because I only got like 2 questions afterward and the rest was dead silence (although some came up to me after class and congradulated me for the good presentation) because I pretty much showed them the artifacts gave the facts and there was little to question. I did a rather slim (compared to what I could have done) overview of many events spanning from the OT to the NT, although I spent a large part of the paper on the Taylor Prism and the Moabite stone.

If you would like to read that paper I may still have it around somewhere. And at my constant begging the new Biblical History and Archaeology section has been opened here and I've already done a thread on the Taylor Prism and I'm planning on adding many more in the near future. Please look at that if you are interested and if you have questions about that I'd be glad to indulge.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Gabe]

what do you guys think of Religous Education classes? In the UK (if my memory serves me correctly) it covers the basics of the Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Budhist, and Sikhs faiths. What do you see as the Pro's and Con's of having something similar in America?

 

[VaultZero4Me]

what do you guys think of Religous Education classes? In the UK (if my memory serves me correctly) it covers the basics of the Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Budhist, and Sikhs faiths. What do you see as the Pro's and Con's of having something similar in America?

I am all for it. I took compar. relig class in college and I enjoyed it. I really liked learning about Hinduism and attended a hindu festival for extra credit.

 

[turnorburn]

It means more evil will get into the minds of our children and I for one don't want to see the day when my granddaughter comes home dressed like this to show her daddy what she's learned.

turnorburn

 

[cyberjosh]

It means more evil will get into the minds of our children and I for one don't want to see the day when my granddaughter comes home dressed like this to show her daddy what she's learned.

turnorburn

I understand your point as to what the garment itself symbolizes (Muslim culture), but dressing like that is actually quite modest of women, unlike the women on the front of Maxim magazine here in America (and many women in public). Many Muslims (rightfully - and Christians would agree) that America is publically full of immorality and risque things in our culture, and that's why some fundamentalist Muslims will not allow their daughters or sons come to America, afraid that it will corrupt them (and it probably would). However, and this is a problem with the Jews as well, the modestry of dress must not become legalism because then it becomes useless, and one can dress like that and be as lusty as Potiphar's wife despite the wardrobe.

I don't disagree with Muslims on the basis of how they dress or what cultural things they choose to observe or abide by (not contrary to God's law however), for Acts 15 made it clear that there are certain things which are free to be observed among Christians (for example) - thus Jewish Christians could still wear their phylacteries, and robes, etc., but I of course disagree with Islam's desceptive message and what Muslims sacrifice and dedicate their life toward. Many are sincere, yet stubborn (some will literally plug their ears and walk away when you mention Jesus - happened to my pastor), in their beliefs & only a small percentage of all Muslim's are radical, but they all serve the same false religion which cannot offer salvation of their souls.

Thus I am tolerant of Muslim culture (how they dress, etc.) and how they choose to do things, but am zealous for them to come to the knowledge of the truth of Christ and the Gospel. And I'm quite sure a Christian Arab woman who once was a Muslim and converted to Christianity could still retain the traditional garment of women in their culture and not be wrong in doing so - as long as she realizes the freedom in the choice and don't try to be made perfect in the flesh (like the Galatians tried to do).

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Gabe]

Although I would prefer to be able to see the face of who I'm talking to and the covering of the face can cause security issues, generally I think it is fine for women to dress like this if that is what makes them feel comfortable. it is the fact that they are FORCED which makes it unacceptable in my mind. I'm not sure if it is still going on at the moment but as little as a year ago, Iraqi women & men were being gunned down in the streets if they did not appear 'Muslim enough'. Almost all Muslim women at least cover their heads in Iraq and the women that don't are usually identified as Christian and are regularly attacked by Muslim men and women.

Many claim they force women to dress like this to protect them from lustful men but in reality this is untrue, in modern times they do this to protect lustful men from being 'tempted' by 'inappropriately' dressed women. I'm sure everyone has heard of the woman from an Islamic country who went to the police for help after being gang-raped by Muslim men. Instead of help, they gave her forty lashes because they believed she should not have been outside with someone who was not related to her and that she had brought this on herself.

Whatever the case may be, the blame seems to always fall on the women. Its shameful that this modern world of ours can allow this injustice to continue. For all I care, a women could parade half-naked in front of me if she so chooses; any lustful thoughts are my sins and not hers.

 

[Gabe]

I am all for it. I took compar. relig class in college and I enjoyed it. I really liked learning about Hinduism and attended a hindu festival for extra credit.

Same here, it was nice to learn about what others believe and it was the first time i was exposed to anything outside of Islam and Christianity. though I hated the way the teacher kept pointing me out whenever he talked about islam, very uncomfortable.

 

[turnorburn]

It means more evil will get into the minds of our children and I for one don't want to see the day when my granddaughter comes home dressed like this to show her daddy what she's learned.

turnorburn

I understand your point as to what the garment itself symbolizes (Muslim culture), but dressing like that is actually quite modest of women, unlike the women on the front of Maxim magazine here in America (and many women in public). Many Muslims (rightfully - and Christians would agree) that America is publically full of immorality and risque things in our culture, and that's why some fundamentalist Muslims will not allow their daughters or sons come to America, afraid that it will corrupt them (and it probably would). However, and this is a problem with the Jews as well, the modestry of dress must not become legalism because then it becomes useless, and one can dress like that and be as lusty as Potiphar's wife despite the wardrobe.

I don't disagree with Muslims on the basis of how they dress or what cultural things they choose to observe or abide by (not contrary to God's law however), for Acts 15 made it clear that there are certain things which are free to be observed among Christians (for example) - thus Jewish Christians could still wear their phylacteries, and robes, etc., but I of course disagree with Islam's desceptive message and what Muslims sacrifice and dedicate their life toward. Many are sincere, yet stubborn (some will literally plug their ears and walk away when you mention Jesus - happened to my pastor), in their beliefs & only a small percentage of all Muslim's are radical, but they all serve the same false religion which cannot offer salvation of their souls.

Thus I am tolerant of Muslim culture (how they dress, etc.) and how they choose to do things, but am zealous for them to come to the knowledge of the truth of Christ and the Gospel. And I'm quite sure a Christian Arab woman who once was a Muslim and converted to Christianity could still retain the traditional garment of women in their culture and not be wrong in doing so - as long as she realizes the freedom in the choice and don't try to be made perfect in the flesh (like the Galatians tried to do).

God Bless,

~Josh

I see your point Josh but give them a launching pad you would need to give one to the Catholics coming to school dressed as Mary. I want to see them saved the same as I do everyone else. :-D

 

[Gabe]

i have never denied that there are muslims out there who think and behave differently or that someone can interprate any given text differently to the next person,i think this is one of the reasons why people should read the text for themselves but to state that nowhere in the quran does it give the command to kill infidels is wrong and i think you would have some difficulty in finding any muslim who would agree with this. They may interpit the words differently but the words are most definitely there, wether you like it or not.

This post is regarding the above statement i made earlier in this thread, i feel some on this thread may have doubted my honesty regarding the Islamic scriptures, so i have supplied a link to another thread which leads to a discussion between an Atheist (ex-muslim) and two top Islamic scholars.

This 275 page debate includes some (and by no means all) of the commands in the quran etc which DO call for the killing of ALL infidels. The words are there in black and white for anyone who is interested in this subject to read without prejudice.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33569

 

[turnorburn]

If this topic has regurgitated enough doubt in anyones mind read this and consider what that would do at a PTA. meeting..

Pedophilia & Islam: Allowed by Allah; Practised & Patronized by Prophet Muhammad

by Ayesha Ahmed

12 Apr, 2008

Having sex with underage children is popular in sharia countries. Find out why?


An old man with an underage bride in Afghanistan

ALLAH APPROVES OF IT

65.4 “If you divorce your (child) wife before she reaches menstruation age her idda is three monthsâ€Â.

According to this aya a muslim man can marry (and have sex with) even a one day old infant girl.



ISLAMIC AUTHORITIES PROMOTE IT

There is no argument on this point among Islamic authorities whether shia or sunni. They all agree that a muslim man can have sex with baby girl.

This is what Imam Khomeini, the top shia authority says:

“A muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize herâ€Â. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990)

Here is what the the top sunni authority says (video on a Saudi website) about having sex with a one day old baby girl. (Go to “site video†and click on sex with a one day old girl)


PROPHET LOVED LITTLE GIRLS

Prophet had special feelings for cute little baby girls.

* Ibn Ishaq: Suhayli, 2.79: In the riwaya of Yunus Ibn Ishaq recorded that the apostle saw Ummu’l-Fadl hen she was baby crawling before him and said, ‘If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.’ ( p. 311)
* Muhammad saw Um Habiba the daughter of Abbas while she was fatim (age of nursing) and he said, "If she grows up while I am still alive, I will marry her." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 25636)

turnorburn

 

[Gabe]

There is certainly no doubt that the horror of peadopilia is acceptable in many islamic nations because of its forced religion of choice. The Quran permits peadophilia.

Also the fact that mohammad was a peadophile has not been disputed by any muslim for almost 1 and a half thousand years. His favorate and "most beautiful" wife Aisha was only six year old when they were married and 8 or 9 years old when he had sex with her. Muslims see mohammad as the perfect example of a rightious man and a good role model, much like us Christians who strive to be more Christ-like in all we do. Are the teachings of this depraved old man, really something we want our kids to regard as valid alternatives to the teachings of Christ or Buddha?

 

[Gabe]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33834
This is a link to another thread which deals with the treatment of apostates in Islam. This shows that according to Islamic scripture, I got off pretty lightly and the treatment of infidels and apostates in Islam is in no way similar to the treatment of infidels and apostates in Christianity.