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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Reproducing
- Thread starter l'Chante
- Start date
T
Theofilus
Guest
No more than it's a man's "duty" to do his part. There are some who believe it is required though, since the first commandment God gave us was "Be fruitful and multiply".
Nathan
Member
Well...the New Testement deals with this. Oh, it does not use the same terminology, but its the same context. Paul said it was good for a man and woman not to marry. I do not know about you, but I am going to guess that he was also referring to sexual intercourse.
Now I am not a scientist, but I have researched and found out that humans are not asexual. lol. Sometimes the smartypants comes out in me.
But we even have Jesus mentioning the same thing.
Motive is what really seems to be what makes it of God or man(woman) desire.
If the motive is to live a life where there are no distractions and you are going to pursue a relationship with the Lord and be able to do His work day and night...then that is the right motive, I beleive.
If the motive is to not overpopulate the earth, or fear, or selfishness, or anything other than what Paul and Jesus talk about....then I would say that is the wrong motive.
Kids are a lot of work.....A...LOT...OF...WORK.... I have three. We take care of another one most of the time and we are fixing to be foster parents.
They take a lot of time. A lot of energy. A lot of patience. A lot of a lot.
This is where I am at though. And I will not for a MOMENT discount ANYONE who feels as though they should abstain from having kids.
A persons motives is between them and the Lord, but it is BIBLICAL to not reproduce.
Now I am not a scientist, but I have researched and found out that humans are not asexual. lol. Sometimes the smartypants comes out in me.
But we even have Jesus mentioning the same thing.
Motive is what really seems to be what makes it of God or man(woman) desire.
If the motive is to live a life where there are no distractions and you are going to pursue a relationship with the Lord and be able to do His work day and night...then that is the right motive, I beleive.
If the motive is to not overpopulate the earth, or fear, or selfishness, or anything other than what Paul and Jesus talk about....then I would say that is the wrong motive.
Kids are a lot of work.....A...LOT...OF...WORK.... I have three. We take care of another one most of the time and we are fixing to be foster parents.
They take a lot of time. A lot of energy. A lot of patience. A lot of a lot.
This is where I am at though. And I will not for a MOMENT discount ANYONE who feels as though they should abstain from having kids.
A persons motives is between them and the Lord, but it is BIBLICAL to not reproduce.
l'Chante
Member
:o I have NO idea how you manage three. I have one and she takes up all my time and energy.
God instructed us to take care of the Earth, so I don’t think over populating it is a good idea.<O:p</O:p
Caroline H
Member
I think that the command to be fruitful and multiply was given to humanity as a whole, not specifically every human being on earth. I also do not believe that the earth is overpopulated, just mismanaged... but that is another topic
If some people feel that they should not have children, for whatever reason, then they should NOT have children. Children need parents who are willing and capable of looking after them and teaching them, not parents who really aren't up to the task. That doesn't mean that people can't change their minds later in life, or once they find out they are expecting, but if someone feels that they are definitely not cut out for parenthood, then it would be irresponsible for them to reproduce... does that make sense?
If some people feel that they should not have children, for whatever reason, then they should NOT have children. Children need parents who are willing and capable of looking after them and teaching them, not parents who really aren't up to the task. That doesn't mean that people can't change their minds later in life, or once they find out they are expecting, but if someone feels that they are definitely not cut out for parenthood, then it would be irresponsible for them to reproduce... does that make sense?
Pard
Member
I agree with Caroline.
Go said "Be fruitful and multiply." He did not put in a stipulation about multiplying until you deem yourselves to be at maximum capacity for the earth and then stop. He said multiply and His lack of caveat would deem that multiplying without an end in sight is His wish. Overpopulation is a joke. I don't want to derail this thread, but I'd warn against this as an excuse for anything except maybe a joke's punchline.
As for whether it is a command EVERYONE must follow, no it is not. Paul shows that it is not a command for everyone. Some are called to serve God alone and without s spouse. They cannot possibly have children (well, without sinning!).
Go said "Be fruitful and multiply." He did not put in a stipulation about multiplying until you deem yourselves to be at maximum capacity for the earth and then stop. He said multiply and His lack of caveat would deem that multiplying without an end in sight is His wish. Overpopulation is a joke. I don't want to derail this thread, but I'd warn against this as an excuse for anything except maybe a joke's punchline.
As for whether it is a command EVERYONE must follow, no it is not. Paul shows that it is not a command for everyone. Some are called to serve God alone and without s spouse. They cannot possibly have children (well, without sinning!).
Nathan
Member
Yea, this could be a real touchy topic. Real touchy. There was a couple in our fellowship that tried and tried and tried to have kids. Never would happen. They finally did adopt. But even to this day, unless something has changed recently, they have a bit of anger/sorrow towards those who "reproduce" "flippantly". If you know what I am saying.
It is hard for them because they wanted to but were not able.
Over population of the earth is indeed not going to happen anytime soon. Overpopulation in particular areas might be a different story, but I live in the U.S. and I can tell you there is PLENTY of room for people to live. It sickens me to think that some over here have half the area of land that nearly 100,000 people live in other parts of the world, and they own a 10,000 square foot house which would probably adequately provide shelter for who knows how many, and they live alone with maybe two kids.
And its not the exception to the rule over here, it is the rule. There is plenty of resources and land in various parts of the world to support double what the population is today. There is no way, no way, we will ever over populate the earth.
What we need to do is not look critically on people about this sort of thing. I believe that this is a trick of the enemy to cause a deep seed of selfishness in some. And for others it is a source of pride.
The idea that if a man and woman do not want to have more than X amount of kids is between them and the Lord. It is quite Biblical to have 30, and it is quite Biblical to have none.
Motive is the only thing that plays a part in if it is right or not before God. And seeing how we cannot judge motive, this is one thing we cannot judge accurately.
But hey...never hurts to discuss this. Some couples I am sure feel as though they are pressured into having more kids when they feel a deep desire to just live for God. And some are being pressured to stop having so many when they feel the desire and conviction that children are a gift from God.
Both need to know that they are in the right when they are truthful to themselves before God. So it does good to discuss things like this from time to time.
I find it interesting that Paul even says it is good for a man and woman to have a commitment to each other and even not get married. Hows that for weird. That would be hard for me. To much physical emotions that would probably run through my body.
It is hard for them because they wanted to but were not able.
Over population of the earth is indeed not going to happen anytime soon. Overpopulation in particular areas might be a different story, but I live in the U.S. and I can tell you there is PLENTY of room for people to live. It sickens me to think that some over here have half the area of land that nearly 100,000 people live in other parts of the world, and they own a 10,000 square foot house which would probably adequately provide shelter for who knows how many, and they live alone with maybe two kids.
And its not the exception to the rule over here, it is the rule. There is plenty of resources and land in various parts of the world to support double what the population is today. There is no way, no way, we will ever over populate the earth.
What we need to do is not look critically on people about this sort of thing. I believe that this is a trick of the enemy to cause a deep seed of selfishness in some. And for others it is a source of pride.
The idea that if a man and woman do not want to have more than X amount of kids is between them and the Lord. It is quite Biblical to have 30, and it is quite Biblical to have none.
Motive is the only thing that plays a part in if it is right or not before God. And seeing how we cannot judge motive, this is one thing we cannot judge accurately.
But hey...never hurts to discuss this. Some couples I am sure feel as though they are pressured into having more kids when they feel a deep desire to just live for God. And some are being pressured to stop having so many when they feel the desire and conviction that children are a gift from God.
Both need to know that they are in the right when they are truthful to themselves before God. So it does good to discuss things like this from time to time.
I find it interesting that Paul even says it is good for a man and woman to have a commitment to each other and even not get married. Hows that for weird. That would be hard for me. To much physical emotions that would probably run through my body.
Cheyenne K
Member
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
- 1 Corinthians 7:20
Paul stated on many occasions the value of being single and abstinent, unlike many who went forth to be fruitful. Quite frankly, I don’t see that as a sin. He was just living for God and the path that enabled himself to glorify and have a better relationship with God altogether.
In the Bible, we are told to do everything we do for the glory of God. If we find in ourselves that with children, there is bringing glory to God, or without children; it does not matter. Lord does know that some people just do not desire or need children in Him. For instance, if someone is a missionary, perhaps they feel better without having children because their line of work may endanger the child, add further stress during travels, etc. Nevertheless, children are blessings from God, but some people are not called to have them. The only time that not having a child would seem to be a sin was if God was calling someone to have a child and they ignored Him and said, “No, God, I don’t want one.â€
- 1 Corinthians 7:20
Paul stated on many occasions the value of being single and abstinent, unlike many who went forth to be fruitful. Quite frankly, I don’t see that as a sin. He was just living for God and the path that enabled himself to glorify and have a better relationship with God altogether.
In the Bible, we are told to do everything we do for the glory of God. If we find in ourselves that with children, there is bringing glory to God, or without children; it does not matter. Lord does know that some people just do not desire or need children in Him. For instance, if someone is a missionary, perhaps they feel better without having children because their line of work may endanger the child, add further stress during travels, etc. Nevertheless, children are blessings from God, but some people are not called to have them. The only time that not having a child would seem to be a sin was if God was calling someone to have a child and they ignored Him and said, “No, God, I don’t want one.â€
jasoncran
Member
That is kind of my point. We multiplied like there is no tomorrow. The Earth is now overpopulated. Shouldn’t we stop at some point? Many women don’t want to reproduce and society makes them feel like they have a screw loose.<O:p</O:p
you do realise that the eugenics/ and population control lovers promoted and started this. actually europe will be more muslim(arabic) then european in the less then a century. canada the same , and the us is barely holding.
only the arabs are ahead of the sustenable rate of births per 1000. ie optimum at 2.2/1000 vs 8/1000(muslims)
german will die as a culture any country with less 1.1/1000 beyond return. that doesnt mean there wont be germans just that they wont have enough to care of the elderly and other socialised things. plus it means another culture who has more kids will be the larger one ie the arabs.
theLords
Member
That is kind of my point. We multiplied like there is no tomorrow. The Earth is now overpopulated. Shouldn’t we stop at some point? Many women don’t want to reproduce and society makes them feel like they have a screw loose.
I think this is interesting. Jesus did say "woe to those pregnant or nursing during the end times." Surely, there must be a point were we have "fulfilled" God's command. In China they are killing their babies because of overpopulation, we're running out of resources etc.
jasoncran
Member
china is reversing that policy, as they have a problem whole of of men and few WOMEN!
soon they wont be able to function like they do.
they have killed babies since mao came to be(one would think they would have stopped by now)
theLords
Member
It's very sad, they have invited sin into their country by devaluing women
Pard
Member
theLords
Member
Not to mention killing anyone who shares the Word of God...
Chinese Christians (and all martyrs) are the reason I believe that true Christendom is found in the third world. It's easy to be a Christian in America (albeit getting harder) but we have no idea what those Christians face each day. They don't even have access to the words of their Lord! I totally love supporting Bible smugglers! I want one of those shirts lol
Pard
Member
Total agreement. I pray for the day I can show my devotion to the Lord with the same strength and love that my brothers in China and the Middle-East and Africa do.
I would, perhaps, go so far as to say that Christianity can only ever flourish when we are being persecuted. But we are derailing l'c's topic! Forgive us l'c! :D
l'Chante
Member
You’re forgiven Ian. ;) Now forgive me for chiming in.
I don’t quite get how you guys can say the world is not over populated. According to my knowledge many species of plants, animal life etc go extinct every day, or am I mistaken?
Or will the planet be considered over populated when America</ST1:p has no more free land for housing and agriculture? From personal experience; our house was the first one built in our neighbourhood. It looked like a little farmhouse surrounded by fields. We listened to the jackals at night and we often had to reduce our speed to allow for a rabbit/hedgehog to cross the road. Now, 25 or so years later it is a suburban nightmare with houses and malls and noise… Where did these animals go? They had to make way for humans.<O:p
<O:p
Keep in mind that we were never relieved of our duty to take care of the planet. More people means more cars, more noise, more waste. All these things affect the planet and the wildlife. <O:p
I don’t quite get how you guys can say the world is not over populated. According to my knowledge many species of plants, animal life etc go extinct every day, or am I mistaken?
Or will the planet be considered over populated when America</ST1:p has no more free land for housing and agriculture? From personal experience; our house was the first one built in our neighbourhood. It looked like a little farmhouse surrounded by fields. We listened to the jackals at night and we often had to reduce our speed to allow for a rabbit/hedgehog to cross the road. Now, 25 or so years later it is a suburban nightmare with houses and malls and noise… Where did these animals go? They had to make way for humans.<O:p<O:p
Keep in mind that we were never relieved of our duty to take care of the planet. More people means more cars, more noise, more waste. All these things affect the planet and the wildlife. <O:p
Caroline H
Member
Like I said, it's not overpopulated, just horribly mismanaged. Humanity has failed in its calling to be caretakers of the earth, and resources are being stripped without proper and adequate replacement for the sake of the almighty $ (or other monetary symbol). We haven't failed in our call to fill the earth, and there was no limit placed on that, but we have mismanaged the resources available. I don't think it's too late to change it either, but sadly I know it will never happen, because it is all the result of our fallen nature.