Resurrection of Righteous and Unrighteous

[Alabaster]

Man, this is great. When God said he blinds people, he sure means it.

Answer me this then Ole wise Alabaster: Why does Paul say in 1 thess 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Why does Paul command people not to sleep, if asleep means dying? Do people have a choice whether they die or not?

And why does Paul say that those who sleep sleep in the night, but says the believers are children of the day and that the coming of the Lord will not take the children of the day by surprise?

You must reconcile these things to get to the truth.

Paul is admonishing us to be alert. He is not talking about dying. Duh.

In much of your discourse recently, you seem to ignore the fact that death is described as sleep also. In that instance it is clear that you seem to lack certain skill in handling the truth of the word, unable to distinguish between metaphors.

 

[tig]

Paul is admonishing us to be alert. He is not talking about dying. Duh.

In much of your discourse recently, you seem to ignore the fact that death is described as sleep also. In that instance it is clear that you seem to lack certain skill in handling the truth of the word, unable to distinguish between metaphors.

Touche' my friend. Alas, we see things much differently. I'll take my own understanding, you can have your organizations understanding.

I do find an inconsistancy in your proclaimation though. This post, you said those asleep is not talking about the dead, in all your other post, you say being asleep is the same as being dead.

Are you guilty of the same thing you claimed I am guilty of, unable to distinguish between metaphors?

 

[Alabaster]

Touche' my friend. Alas, we see things much differently. I'll take my own understanding, you can have your organizations understanding.

My understanding is from the word of God, as it interprets itself well. If we see things differently,then I suggest there is a spirit there who is clouding your sight.

 

[tig]

My understanding is from the word of God, as it interprets itself well. If we see things differently,then I suggest there is a spirit there who is clouding your sight.

Fine. But I see two chapters speaking of the exact same subject and you interprete asleep in two different ways in the same passage. I used to believe as you did when I heard man explain it. Then, when I read it for myself, I saw a completely different scene unfolding.

Of course, when I was listening to man explain it, their interpretation brought gain to them. When I read it for myself, Christ gave the gain to me.

 

[Alabaster]

Fine. But I see two chapters speaking of the exact same subject and you interprete asleep in two different ways in the same passage. I used to believe as you did when I heard man explain it. Then, when I read it for myself, I saw a completely different scene unfolding.

Of course, when I was listening to man explain it, their interpretation brought gain to them. When I read it for myself, Christ gave the gain to me.

It seems that abandoning the things you were taught brought degradation. It doesn't always behoove one to abandon the things God teaches us through His people. It is only pride that causes people to think they know more than those He places in our lives to help us.

 

[tig]

It seems that abandoning the things you were taught brought degradation. It doesn't always behoove one to abandon the things God teaches us through His people. It is only pride that causes people to think they know more than those He places in our lives to help us.

Thanks for the advice. And every time I read the bible, I honestly clear my head and let it speak for itself. If it would say the things those who taught me, in the Baptist faith, then that is what I would believe(to the best of my ability). I definitely don't think I am smarter, though I have held my own from time to time, to my surprise. I think it is more that I am willing to be wrong, and be corrected, when the scripture seems to point to a different scenario than what I was taught.

And, to get to the truth, I have studied, of course, with the Baptist (some college with the same affiliation), Church of Christ, Methodist, Church of God, Assemblies of God, Jehovah Witnesses, Lutherans, and a sect somewhat associated with the World wide church of God but only use Hebrew words in some instances.

My difficulty therein lied with what group has the truth? And of course there are many others. So finally, me and my brother, who was hardcore in his religion, and me in mine (Baptist), decided to read it as if we had never read it before, and lo, and behold, next time we came face to face, we had both came to the same conclusion.

Why we are here, the resurrection, the second coming of Christ, the book of Revelations, hell, the second birth, all seemed so clear away from the indoctrination of any of those religious systems we studied with. I have tried to speak with people in most of those organizations, the pastors, and not one would speak with me, they only spoke to me if I came to their study group or church service, where of course, I could not ask questions, only silence was expected from the ones being taught.

So, brother, low and behold, I saw in scripture that in the new covenant, we shall not teach everyone his brother, saying, know the Lord, for all shall know him, from the greatest to the least. And that the Holy Spirit teaches us.

As far as the resurrection, JC told the Sadducee's they were greatly mistaken, for God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live unto God. And this is exactly what this passage in 1 Thess 4 and 5 is speaking of, those asleep and dead in Christ (in unbelief, on the outside), and those awake and alive in Christ (believe his message, on the inside), both will go to be with him when he comes back at the death of the flesh. That is the second coming of Christ, when he comes back for each and everyone of us individually at the death of our flesh to receive our spirit unto himself to go unto the father's house.

This time here on earth is only a classroom (according to what I read) that we visit for a brief time, to be perfected through the suffering of death. Some play the role of vessels of mercy (few), most play the role of vessels of destruction. Yet we all learn the lesson, death. That is the one event that happeneth to us all (Eccl.), and it reveals the glory of this gift of eternal life God has freely given to all, of which JC is the record of (1 jn 5).

A simply contrast lesson, and the great teacher does not fail to teach one single pupil, of which mankind is. It is a glorious lesson, God puts us in a body of death, separated from eternal life, to enhance the real nature of who we are, spirit, eternal beings proceeding forth out of the Father himself.

As for this: Jn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Here, those that are in graves are the people who are still here on the earth in this body of dirt. Those who have done good, believed the message of Christ, will become alive, those who reject the truth he preached, will live in damnation. JC tells you what that damnation is in Jn 3, he says their condemnation is that light is come into the world but men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. Not an eternity in hell, but a life lived on this earth in darkness.