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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Resurrection of Righteous and Unrighteous
- Thread starter ka527al
- Start date
Bazz1040
Member
The significance and what it is saying is that God has not condemned the unrighteous. But unfortunately, most Christians have done in their mind what God will not do.
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Elijah674
Guest
Correct.
But where is this location at that is being stated as fact? (2 Thess. 2:7-9) And let 'us' be sure to believe Rev.'s last couple of verses of WARNING.
--Elijah
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Alabaster
Guest
So we meet again, Elijah! You do get around, don't you?
Scripture is pretty clear about the first resurrection will be. There will be a great resurrection where the dead in Christ will rise first, followed immediately by those alive in Christ and we will meet Him in the sky. The unrighteous dead will remain in their graves, cold and silent for at least another millennium while the Tribulation takes place and then the return of the Saviour to rule and reign on earth. After that, there will be a rebellion due to the last unleashing of Satan from the pit, and then the final Judgment will come and all the wicked dead will be raised to stand before God at the GWT Judgment.
Phew!
Yes, the scripture is clear when the first resurrection is, it is now to all who believe the good news JC preached. The first resurrection is when a person is made "alive" in Christ, the second death has no power over those people. What is the second death? Seeing all are dead in tresspasses and sin, the first death is our spiritual death, the second death is the death of the flesh.
The "dead" in Christ are those who have not been made alive by believing Christ's simple message of good news. At the second death (the death of the flesh), at Christ's second coming, the dead (unbelieving) in Christ must rise first, then they meet the Lord in the clouds, in the air to be with him forever. We who have been made alive and remain unto the death of the flesh, the second coming of Christ, will be caught up also like them, to ever be with the Lord.
Paul said: Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
That is wonderful news my friends, God has given assurance unto all men, in that he raised JC from the dead. So, whether one is dead in Christ, or alive in Christ, God has given us all assurance when he raised JC from the dead, he will also raise us from the dead.
We are truly living in the garden of God, for any who will open their eyes.
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Elijah674
Guest
Phew! Scripture please for what is being 'taught'??
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Alabaster
Guest
Get into the word, Elijah. If you can't make sense of my plain expression of what the Bible says, then read it---slowly.
The Tribulation isn't for the Bride to suffer through. We are going to be taken. You must be misreading my post. I never said ALL the wicked are dead, but those who have died outside of the knowledge of Jesus Christ up to the point of the Rapture of the Church will stay dead until Judgment Day, where they will experience the second death.
You need to come forth with scripture refuting that.
A clear reading of 1 thess 4 and 5 will show you that those who are asleep in Christ, or dead in Christ, are the unbelievers. For Paul gives us the command: let us therefore not sleep as others (the children of darkness and night). Paul surely would not be giving the command in Chapter 5 to not sleep as others, if in chapter 4 those asleep are just those who have died physically believing in Christ.
Those who are asleep are those who will be surprised by the coming of JC like they are surprised when a thief comes in the night. The children of the day know exactly when JC is coming again, that day will assuredly not take them as a thief in the night.
But....again, the good news is (1 thess 5 9-10): JC died for us, that whether we wake (believe) or sleep (don't believe), we should live together with him. God's love is going to get you buddy, nothing can be done to escape it.
These are truly words that we can comfort each other with. The good news of God that JC brought truly is good news for all peoples, not part good news, or mostly good news, but totally and fully good news for each and every individual that has ever lived or will ever live.
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Alabaster
Guest
If they were unbelievers, they would be dead (or asleep) 'outside of Christ'. The wording is basic and to the point. It is describing believers.
Proof:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The Hope of the Resurrection
13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died. 15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.
What translation are you quoting? Seems to have changed the whole context. In any case, why would Paul tell the people in chapter 5 that those who sleep, sleep in the night, so don't sleep, if indeed the ones asleep in Christ (in chapter 4) are the believers? Paul would never tell people don't die, as if they had a choice. It is clear in all relevant translations that Paul is speaking of "the dead in Christ", or "the asleep in Christ", - as the unbelievers in Christ.
How they are "in Christ" - is that the words Christ spoke are true, one is said to be "asleep in Christ", or "dead in Christ" if one does not believe the truth Christ taught. One is said to be "alive in Christ" or "awake in Christ" if one believes the truth Christ taught. Either way, we are "in Christ", as the truth he taught, about who we are, who God is, and what we are, are true no matter if we believe it or not. Truth is not dependant on the belief of any man.
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Alabaster
Guest
What? The New Living Translation doesn't change context--it enhances and clarifies it. You would do well to use it in conjunction with your chosen version.
Chapter 5 is merely telling the believer to not be slack in their alertness.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-9
The Day of the Lord
1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
You are now corrected: saying 'asleep in Christ' is simply describing Christians who have died.
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If as you say that "asleep in Christ" means those who have "died believing in Christ" why does Paul go on to say "So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep.....for those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night"? If those "asleep" are just those "Christians who have died", then why does Paul say not to sleep (die) as others, and those that sleep (die) sleep (die) in the night? When Paul knows very well that we have no choice whether we die or not?
Yes, I can see a clear distortion in this new living translation, especially when compared to all other known translations.
Of course, the good news hasn't changed,- I thess 5:9 because God did not appoint us to anger, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who did die for us, that whether we wake -- whether we "sleep" -- together with him we may live;
Paul tell us those that sleep, sleep in the night, and those that are drunken are drunken in the night, then Paul tells us that our Lord Jesus Christ died for us, that whether we wake or "sleep", together with him we may live.
So again, Paul says those who sleep sleep in the night. Therefore referring to unbeleivers, not those who have died believing.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Jesus speaks of this very same thing Jn 5:
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Daniel spake of dan 12:
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Actually, I do believe your interpretation is in error, or rather, those who taught you, their interpretation is in error. Here's why:
1 Thess 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
Paul gave the church at Thess 3 things to do to walk honest toward those "without" Christ. Then...the very next verse, he continues speaking of those who are without, and refers to them as those asleep. Here it is:
1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
If you have eyes to see, you can understand that those who are without are the same ones who are asleep or dead in Christ. As I have made those examples in bold.
Now get this, his letter runs into the next chapter, he is still speaking of when Christ returns. This is what he has to say about those asleep:
1 Thess 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Then finally this:
1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
Wow! Now tell me that those who are asleep are the believers who died believing in JC. Of course, that would directly contradict what Paul wrote stating for us not to sleep, because those who sleep are children of the night. But again, the good news that we should comfort one another is, that whether one is awake in Christ, or asleep in Christ, he died for us, that we should live together with him. PTL!!!!!
This is really funny, if you can't see it, maybe one day God will open your eyes.
And, of course, there is no problem. It is just clear as day that the people who are asleep in Christ, in these two chapters' are the ones who do not believe in Christ, otherwise Paul would not give the command not to sleep, as people have no choice about whether they die physically or not.
Truth is though, as long as you are listening to an organization about what scriptures teach, you will be in darkness. You must read the scriptures for yourself if you are to get the truth, organizations are only here to profit the organization, not the people who make up the organization.
Keep reading, the truth is going to get you, here on the earth, or, when you are separated from the flesh.
Man, this is great. When God said he blinds people, he sure means it.
Answer me this then Ole wise Alabaster: Why does Paul say in 1 thess 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Why does Paul command people not to sleep, if asleep means dying? Do people have a choice whether they die or not?
And why does Paul say that those who sleep sleep in the night, but says the believers are children of the day and that the coming of the Lord will not take the children of the day by surprise?
You must reconcile these things to get to the truth.