Returning To A 19th Century Standard Of Living Soon?

[Hidden In Him]

Greetings all!

I just posted this elsewhere, but thought it might be good to post it here as well. It would give me a chance to say hello to everyone again as well.

But the question of this thread is: Will we be returning to a 19th Century standard of living in the not-too-distant future?

The inflation rate just jumped to a 39 year high last week, with no end in sight yet. The reason is obvious to those who understand economics. In order to keep economies running smoothly in the aftermath of the epidemic, most nations have begun pumping billions and even trillions of units of currency into their economies, which is now devaluing them at a rapid pace. The US put 5 trillion into their system, and whenever making money out of thin air is adopted as the short term solution for economic problems like what we have been facing, the end result is inflation sooner or later, and this is what we are seeing transpire now.

Will it eventually become so bad that we return to a 19th century standard of living in the Western world? The following was suggested by a prophetic dream posted by a member at another forum a few weeks ago. I will present it in three parts, together with my own interpretation. It has humorous aspects to it, possibly to make it more memorable, but the underlying meaning isn't all that funny. I will present it here as food for thought. Should it indeed be prophetic, we would all do well to prepare for what is coming so as not to be caught off guard by the changes that befall society.

Catfish in the Mercantile Bank Lobby Dream, Part 1:
I am in the lobby of the Mercantile Bank and sometimes I am in line for the teller; sometimes I am filing out paperwork at one of those raised tables in the lobby. There is four feet of muddy water everywhere. The ceiling is about 30 feet tall and the windows are five feet wide and 15 feet tall and they are all around the building. It is sunny out, the sun seems to be in the morning above the horizon and seems to be circling the building every couple of minutes, producing a lot of moving shadows, but also glare off of the gold and silver fixtures. The front door is one of those turnstiles. Not in the water because you have to walk in and go down some steps into the lobby. So we had to walk down into the water.

Everybody is going about their business like this is normal. But they understand that I do not think it is normal because they keep reassuring me that everything is ok. The people are not saying anything to me that could be meaningful. Everybody is dressed in 19th century dress attire, suits and such. My only big concern are my new hunting boots.

So I am standing in line in four foot of water, looking at the Teller behind black rod iron bars, early 19th century style. Then I realize that the Teller is a very well dressed, man-sized cat....what I call golden stripped cat. 19th century style clothes with a cigar smoking in an ashtray. There is one of those large 19th century golden cash registers there to the Teller's left. He is not in the water because other well dressed animals are walking around behind him....not in water....going about their jobs.

The phrase "not in water" is what keyed me off in reading this dream. The expression being "underwater" is a financial term sometimes used regarding owing more on one's home than what it is worth. One article puts it this way:

"Underwater" is the term for a financial contract or asset that is worth less than its notional value... More commonly, the term is used in relation to a house or another substantial asset which has an outstanding mortgage or loan on the asset that is a larger amount than what the asset is worth. "Underwater" is sometimes also referred to as "upside-down." A homeowner is underwater if their mortgage is larger than what the home is worth.
What Does Underwater Mean in Finance?

As the following article from 2017 added, many in the US are actually already "underwater," with more debt than they can service even now:

While the media reports low unemployment and a rising stock market, the reality is that almost 20 percent of the country lives in “Underwater Nation,” with zero or even negative net worth... They’re disproportionately rural, female, renters, and people without a college degree. But the underwater ranks also include a large number of people who appear to be in the stable middle class... A Bankrate survey found that 63 percent of U.S. households lack the cash or savings to meet a $1,000 emergency expense. They’d have to borrow from a friend or family, or put costs on a credit card. Seven percent of U.S. homeowners are underwater homeowners, with mortgage debt higher than the value of their homes. And more and more people have taken on credit card debt to pay the bills.
More Americans Are Drowning Financially in Underwater Nation - Institute for Policy Studies

The above is what I think this dream is predicting, but on a much larger scale. As inflation rates continue to rise, this combined with what will likely be a stagnating economy will likely lead to only one option: Many will have to keep borrowing against any available assets they have just to make ends meet, and this will eventually mean taking out loans on their mortgages and/or refinancing them until they eventually have zero equity left and their homes go completely "underwater."

Before going on to explain the rest of the dream, the last time the US went into a serious depression was 2007-2008, and it was during this time that a housing bubble occurred. This put many underwater on their homes at that time, because it greatly devalued home market values:

The 2008 financial crisis had numerous effects on the U.S. economy. One such effect was a bursting housing bubble that substantially deflated real estate property values across the market. A primary catalyst for the housing value deflation was loose lending standards for borrowers providing for broader mortgage loan approvals. This loose lending specifically to subprime borrowers led to a heightened number of defaults and foreclosures which effected real estate property values across the U.S. market. This led to a variety of uncommon situations causing losses for borrowers across the market whose mortgage loan values exceeded their home’s fair market value.
What Is an Underwater Mortgage?

The stage could be set for this to happen again, and that on top of potential hyper-inflation setting in. Big money has recently been buying up huge chucks of real estate which is causing home values to skyrocket, but this has now created a precarious situation. All they need to do now is simply reverse direction and start selling at record rates and the bottom could fall out of the real estate market, bursting the bubble, and creating a situation where home prices fall out of the sky, and they can be purchased at half the price of their current value. If I can get around to explaining it later, this may well have been part of the plan the banking elite put into place from the start, going back to well more than a hundred years ago.

A few additional notes on the interpretation of Part 1:

- The sun moving across the horizon very quickly represents the passage of time, which the man who had this dream said is what he sensed as well. It represents going from the 19th century to now, where he has modern hunting boots on, and by that symbolism what I believe is being represented is that the conditions they had then will be what we are returning to in the not so distant future.

- While everyone else is apparently financially underwater and dependent upon the banks, the bank itself appears to be doing exceedingly well. Everything is decorated in "gold and silver fixtures," with the sunlight gleaming off of them. This is representative of the banks getting richer, even as the rest of society is mired in the muck of poverty and indebtedness.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Catfish in the Mercantile Bank Lobby Dream, Part 2:

I notice a swirl in the water between me and the guy in front of me and suddenly a catfish's head pops out of the water looking at me. He has a smoking pipe in his mouth that is apparently not affected by the water.

I say to him, "What are you doing here? He replies, "What are you doing here? You do realize that you are standing in water and your wallet is wet?" I instinctively touched my hip pocket, but then I know that my paycheck and everything was wet and I wondered if they were going to accept a wet check. So while I was contemplating this the catfish goes back to swimming in a circles in front of me. He does not have clothes on. So I start thinking about what he could have to give to the Teller or where he would put anything that he would get from the Teller.

So I ask the catfish, "Where do you keep your money? Do you have a wallet?" He looks at me like I am dumb and says, "It is in my stomach. Were else?" And he looks over at the Teller and says, "He scares me." ....a cat LOL. I just nod my head. So I stand there a while and eventually ask him, "What do you do with money?" Again he looks at me like I am dumb and replies, "I keep it in the river bank." I chuckle and reply, "No what do you spend it on?" He replies, "Fish futures." Again I chuckle and had to ask, "What is fish futures?" He explains that it is wagers on the death of things.

Interpretation:
The man asks "What are you doing here?" and the catfish's reply is incredulous, asking him, "What are you doing here?" and reminds him that he is underwater and even his check is wet. This is to say that his check is already spent because he is so deeply in debt, making the question, "What are you doing here" almost like saying "What do you think; what are all of us doing here?" It speaks to the fact that indebtedness to the banks will be so common place that no one will think anything of it, hence why everyone assures him that things are "normal" when he can tell that compared to his time it most certainly is not.

The dreamer is a Christian man, and the catfish represents yet another Christian, as fish are a common representation of this going back to ancient times. But as the dream progresses it becomes apparent that this in not a godly man. In the next part, He will admit to being a predator just like the banks are, and that he eats "dead fish" off the river bottom. His evil intentions starts to become clear even in this section, as he admits that he invests in "Fish Futures," keeps his money in "the river bank," and makes wagers on "the death of things." These appear to be terms describing financial investments, and more particularly the practice of denominations allowing parishioners to donate their homes to the church, with the transfers taking place after death.

The Catholic church has already set up a situation for members to make home donations. Particularly with a Residual Interest Donation, the member can actually make a capital gain by donating their property while still reserving the right to live in it until their death. Other denominations may follow this potentially lucrative pattern as conditions become worse economically, and churches themselves begin struggling to make more ends meet.

From the Catholic Register:
Gifts of a residual interest in real estate:
Another way to make a gift of real estate to charity is to make a gift of a “residual interest” in property. This gift allows the donor to continue to use the property for his or her lifetime. The gift occurs on the date of the gift of the residual interest, not on the death of the donor, so a charitable donation receipt can be issued on the date of the gift of the residual interest.
The value of the gift will have to be determined by someone with expertise. The fair market value of the interest will depend on the fair market value of the property, current interest rates and the life expectancy of the donor. A gift of a residual interest can result in a capital gain.
What to know about donating real estate

The scribes and Pharisees engaged in a very similar practice during New Testament times, and Jesus identified it as a very wicked thing to do. They were covetous (Luke 16:14), and Jesus condemned them for endorsing the practice of declaring one's property "Corban," meaning a "gift" to God." By this practice, Jewish religious leaders were confiscating the houses of such men after their deaths, and leaving their poor widows homeless and destitute in the process. As Jesus warned the disciples, "Beware of the scribes who like to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the best places at the banquets, yet who devour widow's houses, and for a pretext pray at great length. These shall receive the more strict judgment." (Luke 20:46-47). As He also warned the Pharisees directly, "Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'He who chastises his father or mother, let him die the death.' But you say, 'If a man shall say to his father or mother, "What you might have derived profit from through me is Corban," that is, "an offering,"' and you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother." (Mark 7:10-12)

According to one online article on this subject:
"Anything dedicated to the temple by pronouncing the votive word 'Corban' forthwith belonged to the temple, but only ideally. Actually it might remain in the possession of the one who made the vow. So a son might be justified in not supporting his old parents simply because he designated his property or a part of it as a gift to the temple, that is, as 'Corban.' There was no necessity of fulfilling his vow, yet he was actually prohibited from ever using his property for the support of his parents." (Corban, Biblehub.com)

This then, was a means by which Jewish religious leadership were enriching themselves at the expense of the poor, who might have stood to potentially inherit the properties of their fathers and husbands after death, but now would not. This makes those who will engage in this process just as predatory as any bank would be, though it will be couched in language which makes both the church and the donor appear "righteous" for doing so, because it is all supposedly being done "for God."

Other notes on Part 2 of this dream:

- That the cat bank teller scares the catfish in this dream is representative of the fact that the banks will indeed be predatory, even more so than the religious leaders and institutions represented by the catfish. Once landowners go completely underwater and can no longer refinance or take out any more loans, they will no longer be able to borrow on their property and their homes will become the property of their bank by default.

- The catfish's reference to that he puts his money in "the River Bank" may well be a reference to the coffers of his own Christian denomination, through which he and those with him will invest in more "Fish Futures."

 

[Hidden In Him]

Catfish in the Mercantile Bank Lobby Dream, Part 3:

I say, "What?" He replies, "I eat dead things on the bottom of the river." I cringe and say, "Yuck!" And so he gets a little huffy and asks, "Oh really, what do you eat that is alive?" I chuckle again and replied, "I guess not a lot." He then says, "We are a lot a like, we both live off of death." And he seems to notice my clothes and asks, "Why aren't you wearing fancy clothes?" I said, "I am not doing anything fancy." He says, "Everything is fancy." And then he asks why people wash their clothes? "Cause we do not want to stink," I answered. "Well you all stink anyway! I can smell everything. If you all did not wash your clothes, you all would stink and it would just be normal." OK, I replied and then asked, "Why are you concerned about people washing their clothes?" He replies, "They use clean water to wash their clothes. They are wasting clean water and they stink anyway."

There are other fish in the lobby. We never move in line and the catfish and I never get to the Teller.... There is a phantasm about this dream. There are other fish or something else in the water that I am feeling is not good... and the dream ends. I have had this dream reoccur.

This last part is the toughest to interpret, but at the current time I believe it simply serves to all the more confirm that the Catholic Church may be one of the primary culprits (though likely not the only ones) in using this practice to effectively rob Christian families of their inheritance. It is suggested by how the catfish tells him, "I smell everything! and you all stink." Catholic priests encourage parishioners to take confession, by which they essentially end up knowing everyone's business. The knowledge that "all fish stink" is thus likely a reference to that we all sin, since stench is a common metaphor for the spiritual uncleanness which we must all be cleansed of. But the catfish seems to be making the contention that regularly cleansing oneself through confession never actually does anything to make anyone not stink, and this is a waste of time in that sense; that Christians ought to accept their sin as natural, for that if they did, "all would stink and it would just be normal," and there would be no need to make oneself appear "fancy" before others. It is an appeal to humility, but in the wrong way, by accepting sin and one's spiritual stench as a normality rather than teaching it should be resisted. This in fact is somewhat indicative of many of the more mainline denominations, who are with increasing frequency embracing even sins like homosexuality as if they were "normal" now.

Notes on Part 3:
- Catfish are a species that do indeed feed off of other fish, including dead fish:
Do catfish eat other fish? Yes, they do. Catfish in fact eat other, smaller fish species. They will eat those fish species which are available in their waters, including shad, perch, bluegill, drum, buffalo, small carp, and all other kinds of baitfish. Some catfish are likely to eat dead fish too.
https://www.slo-fishing.si/fishing-for-beginners/419-do-catfish-eat-other-fish

I should also add that I posted a thread on this last year that dealt with the subject of being wary of debt now, and that the answer will be to give ourselves to prayer, so that HE is the one guiding our every step through the entire process, and we arrive safely on the other side. I will it together with the quotes on how to proceed in Christ through prayer and trusting in the Lord in a later post.

If I receive anything more in this dream, I will post it. All are free to comment.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

Original thread:
Being Different From the World

 

[Hidden In Him]

One last note: 50 years ago, MIT conducted a computer study which predicted the collapse of modern society would arrive by the year 2040. According to a follow up study done earlier this year, we are actually ahead of schedule on one of the worst case scenarios.

To avoid a lot of technical, somewhat long-winded discourse, skip to 15:09+, where he makes the contention that we could be in the throws of a total collapse within 20 years:

 

[JLB]

Catfish in the Mercantile Bank Lobby Dream, Part 2:

I notice a swirl in the water between me and the guy in front of me and suddenly a catfish's head pops out of the water looking at me. He has a smoking pipe in his mouth that is apparently not affected by the water.

I say to him, "What are you doing here? He replies, "What are you doing here? You do realize that you are standing in water and your wallet is wet?" I instinctively touched my hip pocket, but then I know that my paycheck and everything was wet and I wondered if they were going to accept a wet check. So while I was contemplating this the catfish goes back to swimming in a circles in front of me. He does not have clothes on. So I start thinking about what he could have to give to the Teller or where he would put anything that he would get from the Teller.

So I ask the catfish, "Where do you keep your money? Do you have a wallet?" He looks at me like I am dumb and says, "It is in my stomach. Were else?" And he looks over at the Teller and says, "He scares me." ....a cat LOL. I just nod my head. So I stand there a while and eventually ask him, "What do you do with money?" Again he looks at me like I am dumb and replies, "I keep it in the river bank." I chuckle and reply, "No what do you spend it on?" He replies, "Fish futures." Again I chuckle and had to ask, "What is fish futures?" He explains that it is wagers on the death of things.

Interpretation:
The man asks "What are you doing here?" and the catfish's reply is incredulous, asking him, "What are you doing here?" and reminds him that he is underwater and even his check is wet. This is to say that his check is already spent because he is so deeply in debt, making the question, "What are you doing here" almost like saying "What do you think; what are all of us doing here?" It speaks to the fact that indebtedness to the banks will be so common place that no one will think anything of it, hence why everyone assures him that things are "normal" when he can tell that compared to his time it most certainly is not.

The dreamer is a Christian man, and the catfish represents yet another Christian, as fish are a common representation of this going back to ancient times. But as the dream progresses it becomes apparent that this in not a godly man. In the next part, He will admit to being a predator just like the banks are, and that he eats "dead fish" off the river bottom. His evil intentions starts to become clear even in this section, as he admits that he invests in "Fish Futures," keeps his money in "the river bank," and makes wagers on "the death of things." These appear to be terms describing financial investments, and more particularly the practice of denominations allowing parishioners to donate their homes to the church, with the transfers taking place after death.

The Catholic church has already set up a situation for members to make home donations. Particularly with a Residual Interest Donation, the member can actually make a capital gain by donating their property while still reserving the right to live in it until their death. Other denominations may follow this potentially lucrative pattern as conditions become worse economically, and churches themselves begin struggling to make more ends meet.

From the Catholic Register:
Gifts of a residual interest in real estate:
Another way to make a gift of real estate to charity is to make a gift of a “residual interest” in property. This gift allows the donor to continue to use the property for his or her lifetime. The gift occurs on the date of the gift of the residual interest, not on the death of the donor, so a charitable donation receipt can be issued on the date of the gift of the residual interest.
The value of the gift will have to be determined by someone with expertise. The fair market value of the interest will depend on the fair market value of the property, current interest rates and the life expectancy of the donor. A gift of a residual interest can result in a capital gain.
What to know about donating real estate

The scribes and Pharisees engaged in a very similar practice during New Testament times, and Jesus identified it as a very wicked thing to do. They were covetous (Luke 16:14), and Jesus condemned them for endorsing the practice of declaring one's property "Corban," meaning a "gift" to God." By this practice, Jewish religious leaders were confiscating the houses of such men after their deaths, and leaving their poor widows homeless and destitute in the process. As Jesus warned the disciples, "Beware of the scribes who like to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the best places at the banquets, yet who devour widow's houses, and for a pretext pray at great length. These shall receive the more strict judgment." (Luke 20:46-47). As He also warned the Pharisees directly, "Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'He who chastises his father or mother, let him die the death.' But you say, 'If a man shall say to his father or mother, "What you might have derived profit from through me is Corban," that is, "an offering,"' and you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother." (Mark 7:10-12)

According to one online article on this subject:
"Anything dedicated to the temple by pronouncing the votive word 'Corban' forthwith belonged to the temple, but only ideally. Actually it might remain in the possession of the one who made the vow. So a son might be justified in not supporting his old parents simply because he designated his property or a part of it as a gift to the temple, that is, as 'Corban.' There was no necessity of fulfilling his vow, yet he was actually prohibited from ever using his property for the support of his parents." (Corban, Biblehub.com)

This then, was a means by which Jewish religious leadership were enriching themselves at the expense of the poor, who might have stood to potentially inherit the properties of their fathers and husbands after death, but now would not. This makes those who will engage in this process just as predatory as any bank would be, though it will be couched in language which makes both the church and the donor appear "righteous" for doing so, because it is all supposedly being done "for God."

Other notes on Part 2 of this dream:

- That the cat bank teller scares the catfish in this dream is representative of the fact that the banks will indeed be predatory, even more so than the religious leaders and institutions represented by the catfish. Once landowners go completely underwater and can no longer refinance or take out any more loans, they will no longer be able to borrow on their property and their homes will become the property of their bank by default.

- The catfish's reference to that he puts his money in "the River Bank" may well be a reference to the coffers of his own Christian denomination, through which he and those with him will invest in more "Fish Futures."

Thanks for sharing.





JLB

 

[Northman]

"What to know about donating real estate" LOL NO

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thanks for sharing.

JLB

You bet!

I've been researching this a little more since last night, and I found a couple of videos from six months ago that shine some light on what we really did to the economy over the last year. Several of the things Steve Forbes said would be here as a result of just printing more money are already now here.

What Schiff says here in the first six minutes of this video is astonishingly accurate; incredibly analysis of what I think actually took place in the US economy over the last year or so. It wasn't a real "recovery," it was only made to look like one as we continued to dig ourselves in even deeper.

It somewhat more at least resembles a "recovery" now, six months later, because we've stopped surviving off of stimulus. But what we are now "recovering" into is what I've been talking about throughout this thread: Earnings staying the same as the cost of living keeps going up and up, until our whole standard of living eventually has to change.

 

[Hidden In Him]

"What to know about donating real estate" LOL NO

As funny as it is, the part about turning home donation into a capital gain while still being able to retain ones home until death could be a real eye-catcher for some. This is where it will become a type of financial forecasting on the part of the church. They will have to have analysts look at whether guaranteeing to support a home owner until his death is a good investment or not, based on his life-expectancy in light of things like current health, age, etc.

It's kinda sick in a way, but in another way it's really like a major financial institution just hedging bets on stocks, only they are doing it with people, sort of like the insurance companies do when writing up policies.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I shared this in the other thread, and I think it's worth sharing here. Not sure how everyone feels about prophecy around here, but I regard the following as accurate, and it speaks of much the same things that the dream I posted above do.

It's a little long but not too bad, and becoming increasingly interesting now. He includes notes on how he interpreted it at the end that also give a more positive outlook for those who belong to the Lord Jesus Christ. Because they will be living to serve and help others in the end-times, they will prosper in it even as the world is descending into crippling and enslaving poverty.

Field Of Dreams Or Nightmares?
While praying about the future of our economy, I was given a vision of a long, lush green field. I felt that this represented a long period of economic prosperity, which has generally been the case since that time. While praying in August 1995, I saw this field in a vision again, but with much more detail. The end of the field was covered in fog. Not far into the fog there was a very steep cliff. In the middle of the cliff, there was a narrow, twisting, steep path that appeared like a descending bridge. It had the same green grass on it that the field did and went all the way to the bottom.

Those who walked into the fog almost all missed the little path and fell over the cliff. Some of these died, but nets below the cliffs caught many of them. However, these nets were not there to save the people but to trap them. Others entered the fog carefully, dropping to their knees and searching for the path, which they seemed to intuitively know was there. Most of those looking for the path were able to find it and carefully started down on their knees. A few people had parachutes, and they jumped off the cliff into the fog.

At the bottom there was a sea with four kinds of ships in the harbor: slave ships, warships, luxury liners, and hospital ships. Most of the ships were slavers. The next greatest number was warships. There were only five hospital ships, all of which were on clean, well-kept docks right in the middle of the harbor. The two luxury liners were docked at each end of the harbor. An abundance of supplies were on their docks, but both the docks and ships looked filthy and poorly maintained. No warships were docked, but all kept moving about in the harbor.

The people who fell into the nets were put on the slave ships. Most of those who made it down the steep paths headed for the hospital ships, but many did head for the luxury liners. Of those who headed for the luxury liners, some were captured and made to board a slave ship.

The luxury liners were closely guarded, and obviously under the control of the warships. The warships occasionally took people from the slave ships and luxury liners, and they were taking whoever they wanted—they could not be resisted.

Those from the hospital ships were also taking people from the other ships. However, they only took the weakest or those who were so sick or wounded and not expected to live.

The crewmen of the hospital ships were shown respect because they wore brilliant armor that seemed to confound everyone else. Those who were jumping off the cliff with the parachutes were all landing on the hospital ships or their docks.

When a slave ship would fill up it would depart, making frequent turns as if it knew where it was going. The warships were also making so many turns that it seemed impossible to tell which way they would go next. Any ship that happened to be in the way of a warship when it turned was blasted and sunk by the warship. If the warships turned toward each other, they started shooting at each other until one was sunk.

Because of the fog, many ships collided with other ships and sank. The water was filled with sharks that quickly devoured those who fell into it. The confusion, despair, and fear over the harbor were as thick as the fog. When the fog thickened, these fears would intensify. When the fog would thin a little, hope would begin to rise in the people. When the fog lifted enough so that the open sea could be seen, the ships would begin heading for it.

The hospital ships were also the only ones who seemed to be sailing as if they knew where they were going. They could sail right through the chaos in the harbor and into the open sea at will. One or two of them were constantly going out to sea, disappearing for a time, and then they would return. Then another would go and do the same.

As I followed one of these ships to the open sea in the vision, all of a sudden it was as if I was standing on the bridge of the ship. The farther out we went, the more the sky cleared. Soon it became bluer than I had ever seen it, except when flying in a high altitude jet. I was so intrigued by the sky that I had not been watching the sea. When I looked back at it, I saw that we were actually flying at a very high altitude.

I thought that we were going out into space, but soon we descended toward what appeared to be a whole new world. It was composed of islands, each with a different culture of people on it. The wounded on our hospital ship were placed on several of the different islands, so that each wounded person was placed with those from his or her own culture.

These islands were at perfect peace, and there were beautiful white bridges connecting them to one another, with a constant flow of people on the bridges. On each island vast foundations were being laid for a great city.

Even though each island was very different, and different from any place that I had ever seen, I felt immediately at home on each one. They were each like paradise, and though they seemed to be on a different world, I knew that they were somehow very close to the one I had just left.

His interpretations in the next post...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Interpretation and Insights
(P.S. Keep in mind this was published more than 25 years ago)

That I can now see the end of this field indicates that the end of our economic prosperity is now in sight. What I saw at the end was much more catastrophic than I had ever thought. There are some very dark times ahead, but at the same time there is a whole new world being built right in our midst that is more wonderful than we can even imagine.

To the degree that we have built our lives and faith on the economy of the world, we have built on a very shaky foundation. We know that the time will come when everything that can be shaken will be. The time that we have been given until that happens is for the purpose of preparation. Let us build our hope and trust on the kingdom that alone cannot be shaken.

Those who kept walking into the fog just as they had been walking in the open field, not discerning or not acknowledging the change, either perished or fell into slavery. Those who immediately fell to their knees found a safe way down, but it still led down. They had to stay on their knees all the way; no one could have stood up on that slope because it was too steep and narrow. Falling to our knees speaks of prayer. As soon as we see the fog, or confusion, we must pray for every step we take thereafter.

That no one ascended, but all went down to the bottom of the cliff, spoke to me that the economy of the whole world was going down. Many will survive what is coming, but not at the level they are presently. Much of our present standard of living has been built upon credit, borrowing from the future, and the future is now here. We are fast approaching the time when the bills will have to be paid. That will cause a drastic reduction of our present lifestyles.

I felt that the slave ships were banks. During the Great Depression, banks were so over extended that most of them failed. Somehow, they have now positioned themselves to not only survive another economic collapse, but will actually be in a place to enslave those who are in debt to them.

The warships were all different sizes, and I felt represented different powers. Their efforts were not coordinated, but they all seemed to be in as much confusion as everyone else, and all seemed to be at war with one another. They lived by plundering the other ships and each other. I believe that in the times ahead, small wars will be flashing up almost everywhere and without apparent reason. Anyone who gets in the way of those with some power will be in trouble.

The luxury ships were so filthy that it seemed only slightly better to be on one of them instead of a slave or warship. It was obvious that the luxury of the future will not be as we know it today. Also, the luxury ships were constantly being plundered by the warships, making them almost an intolerable place to be. Even a hint of luxury in the future may only serve to make us targets.

I knew that the hospital ships were the church. They were glistening white with red crosses on them. They were so bright and clean that they stood out dramatically in this vision. White speaks of purity, and the red crosses spoke to me that they were bearing the cross. Red is also the color of sacrifice. These ships were so beautiful that anyone would have wanted to be on them. The church will become the most desirable place in the world to be, and the church will become the pure vessel she is called to be when she takes up the cross, committing herself to the life of sacrifice. In the times ahead, the life of sacrifice and service to others will be the most desirable life in the world and will actually be a glorious place to dwell.

The people on the hospital ships each wore brilliant, silver armor. They, too, stood out dramatically whenever they appeared, and this caused everyone to show them great respect, even the warships. This spoke to me that when believers learn to wear their armor, they will command the whole world's respect and have authority because of it.

The docks of the hospital ships were also spotless and were overflowing with supplies. There was far more wealth on them than on the luxury ships, but the wealth was being used for service, not luxury. Because the individuals with the armor and the hospital ships commanded such respect, no one was trying to plunder their great stocks of supplies, even though they were obvious to everyone.

When a hospital ship pulled between two warships that were fighting, they would stop fighting and give them their wounded. It seemed that this was one of the primary purposes of these ships, to simply stop the fighting whenever they could.

In the midst of the chaos of this place, the dignity, resolve, and purpose that the Christians and their ships moved with was stunning. The greatest feeling came over me when I stood on the bridge of the ship leaving for the open sea. That feeling was freedom. As soon as we entered the open sea, we ascended into the heavenly places. Once out of the fog, we did not travel on the earth. When we came back down, it was to a seemingly new earth, even though I knew somehow that it was right in the middle of what I had left.

That I entered this extraordinary freedom on a hospital ship speaks of finding our true peace when we take up our crosses to serve others. When we do this, we will begin to dwell in the heavenly places. Then we will see the earth very differently—we will see what God is doing. I really felt that those paradise islands were already right in our midst, but we just could not see them yet.

At the very time when the world descends into a terrible chaos, which will probably begin with economic chaos, God is building bridges between people that will be the foundation of a glorious future. The end of this age is the beginning of the one over which Christ will reign. In Revelation 17:15we are told that, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.” The sea often represents mass humanity in prophetic language. That the sea at the bottom of the cliff was in the most terrible chaos represents what the kingdoms of this world are headed for. The islands represent that the Lord is also laying a foundation for His kingdom right in our midst at this same time. That I knew these islands were close to the sea of confusion spoke to me that what the Lord is about to build on the earth is also very close at hand.

The bridges are right now being built between people. The bridges were for interchange, and it was obvious to me that each island was building something wonderful, as if it were the very best from their culture in order to share it with the other islands. That new foundations were being laid for cities represented a whole new beginning for the earth. What is now being built for the Lord, for the sake of His kingdom, will remain and be a foundation for the age to come.
A Field of Dreams or Nightmares?

 

[for_his_glory]

This all sounds like the NWO whose agenda includes total global control over political, military, economic, educational, religious and environmental systems for the deceptive purpose of ensuring global peace, prosperity and order during the timing of the seventh trumpet. If we really open our eyes we can see this even now being set up until it comes to fruition.

The Jesuit Order is not a religious order, but in its own right a self governed military order as was the old Babylonian Roman Empire. They disguise themselves as a religious order under the heading of Roman Catholicism that call themselves Christians, but are actually a Luciferians Roman Catholic system who sends their blinded to truth missionaries out into the world causing a great falling away from the true God of all creation as they preach a different gospel, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4. Here is a list of past and present organizations and people you can research who have been and still are controlled by Jesuit Roman dictatorship and their secret plot of world domination as they annihilate anyone who will not conform and bow down to their false gods.

This is a partial list of what the Jesuit Militant Priesthood has controlled from their beginning in 1540: Inquisition, Crusaders, Knights Templar, Illuminati, high level Freemasonry, Jesuit infiltration of the English colonies on the North American continent, Banksters, Vatican Bank, Agenda 21 and 2030, World Trade Organization, Bilderbergers Club, Rothschild’s, Rockerfellows, Constantine, Hitler, Mussolini, Roman Catholic Ecumenical Assemblies (RCEA) and The Global Eucharistic Community (GEC).

The Jesuits have always secretly controlled the government of every nation from the time of Ignatius Loyola and his military background as the Pope gave approval for the Society of Jesus in 1540. The Jesuits of today call themselves "Gods Marines" and send their religious missionaries into all countries converting the people to Catholicism doctrine in order to control the world’s population through the hidden tyranny of their global government and religious false sun god Ra.

The Jesuit Provincials are the regional superior and take their orders from the Superior General Militant of the Jesuits known as the Black Pope (Black meaning evil not color) who controls all military forces on all seven continents. The Jesuit Provincials are located in 112 nations on every continent including America. Jesuits maintain, 70 secondary and primary schools, 50 Jesuit High Schools and 28 universities in the United States with Georgetown University being the first one established in Washington DC in 1789. There are ten Jesuit regional supervisors in the following States of California, Chicago-Detroit, Maryland, Missouri, New England, New Orleans, New York, Oregon, and Wisconsin.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This all sounds like the NWO whose agenda includes total global control over political, military, economic, educational, religious and environmental systems for the deceptive purpose of ensuring global peace, prosperity and order during the timing of the seventh trumpet. If we really open our eyes we can see this even now being set up until it comes to fruition.

The Jesuit Order is not a religious order, but in its own right a self governed military order as was the old Babylonian Roman Empire. They disguise themselves as a religious order under the heading of Roman Catholicism that call themselves Christians, but are actually a Luciferians Roman Catholic system who sends their blinded to truth missionaries out into the world causing a great falling away from the true God of all creation as they preach a different gospel, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4. Here is a list of past and present organizations and people you can research who have been and still are controlled by Jesuit Roman dictatorship and their secret plot of world domination as they annihilate anyone who will not conform and bow down to their false gods.

This is a partial list of what the Jesuit Militant Priesthood has controlled from their beginning in 1540: Inquisition, Crusaders, Knights Templar, Illuminati, high level Freemasonry, Jesuit infiltration of the English colonies on the North American continent, Banksters, Vatican Bank, Agenda 21 and 2030, World Trade Organization, Bilderbergers Club, Rothschild’s, Rockerfellows, Constantine, Hitler, Mussolini, Roman Catholic Ecumenical Assemblies (RCEA) and The Global Eucharistic Community (GEC).

The Jesuits have always secretly controlled the government of every nation from the time of Ignatius Loyola and his military background as the Pope gave approval for the Society of Jesus in 1540. The Jesuits of today call themselves "Gods Marines" and send their religious missionaries into all countries converting the people to Catholicism doctrine in order to control the world’s population through the hidden tyranny of their global government and religious false sun god Ra.

The Jesuit Provincials are the regional superior and take their orders from the Superior General Militant of the Jesuits known as the Black Pope (Black meaning evil not color) who controls all military forces on all seven continents. The Jesuit Provincials are located in 112 nations on every continent including America. Jesuits maintain, 70 secondary and primary schools, 50 Jesuit High Schools and 28 universities in the United States with Georgetown University being the first one established in Washington DC in 1789. There are ten Jesuit regional supervisors in the following States of California, Chicago-Detroit, Maryland, Missouri, New England, New Orleans, New York, Oregon, and Wisconsin.

I have a friend who ties many things to the Jesuits as well, and I've written studies on Dominionism, and the oath that the Jesuits are required to take in relation to it (an oath which is truly bloodthirsty, for such a seemingly peaceful organization on the outside).

As for the overall hypothesis that they are, as one might say, the top of the food chain in Satan's government in the earth, I tend to disagree, but its not something worth arguing about much either way. The bigger point for me is not what Satan is doing in the earth but what God is. I believe all of this is going to play into His hands ultimately. He is going to have a harvest in the earth, and mankind has been going about their business as if they don't need God. The events described by this dream will show many that they do need Him, especially when governments across this planet are no longer able to meet the needs of their people, and the masses finally start turning to the One True Source of Life, the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is why I like the vision I posted in Posts #9 and #10. It paints the picture that not all is going to be bleak, but that what God is going to be doing in the earth will be a wonderful thing, even as the world itself is descending into chaos. So viewed in a positive light, what's coming is actually going to be what the world truly needs if they are to ever wake up from their deception, and turn to the True and Living God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

WIP asked a question on another thread about why the 19th century in particular, so I am transferring my answer to here. I found it to be an interesting question, so I looked into it a little.

Referring to the Industrial Revolution, which stretched from the late 1700s through the late 19th century, I found the following:

According to the historian T.S. Ashton, one reason that standard of living did not improve during industrialization... was that most of a person’s income would go towards rent and other necessities such as food and drink. People didn’t have enough extra money or any leftover money because of the fact that most of the money went to housing and food. Often, people wouldn’t have enough money after rent to even purchase food to feed the entire family, which led to rationing of the food that they had been able to purchase. Sometimes people wouldn’t even be able to eat due to their jobs dissipating or most of their checks going to housing. Although there was an increase of supplies for clothing, such as fabrics, many people of the working class could not afford them, which made them look more impoverished. Many of these lower class workers were subjected to awful working conditions and had less regulations in place at their jobs, were getting paid much less, which in turn made things worse for them. In modern diction, it would be said that they could barely make ends meet.

Yet another way to show that standard of living did not increase is literacy rate. According to an article by Stephen J. Nicholas and Jacqueline M. Nicholas, not only did literacy not grow during the Industrial Revolution, but actually decreased for most of it... Many people in the upper classes benefited during this time, however, the majority of people that were being affected by industrialization were the people in poverty and immigrants. They were suppressed by dirty tenant housing which often was crammed with too many inhabitants. These people were dealing with poor working conditions due to industrialization, and also had depressing conditions at home, including very little money, overworked families, and not enough food to go around. The overall effect of the Industrial Revolution on standard of living was positive for those in the higher classes, but much more negative for the working class.

The Standard of Living in Europe During the Industrial Revolution – Foundations of Western Culture:

I found the latter insights especially telling. In short, the rich got much richer while the poor got much poorer, which is essentially that same thing predicted by the dream. And as also stated in my interpretation, the increase in inflation will eventually make food and housing the primary concern because that's all people will be able to afford any more.

Keep in mind what I mentioned to FHG above, however. These things largely apply only to the world and those not serving God. For those willing to give themselves entirely to God's service, there will be ample provision, because provision will not be their priority. Serving God and others will be.

Thanks for this question, WIP. I had been meaning to look into this myself, but had just been too busy lately to take care of it. If you have any thoughts, please share them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

As per the OP, what's happening in the UK may be a sign of things to come for the rest of us. The UK is now experiencing a sharp rise in credit card borrowing in the wake of rises in the cost of living, and steep climbs in inflation.

Full article reproduced below:

UK credit card borrowing surges amid cost of living crisis​

Concerns that low-income households are turning to expensive forms of lending as inflation soars. A surge in credit card borrowing to a record high last month has prompted concerns that low-income households are turning to expensive forms of lending to cope with rising costs of food, clothing and fuel. Figures from the Bank of England showed credit card borrowing jumped by £1.5bn in February to £59.5bn – the highest since records began in 1993 – pushing the total amount of unsecured lending up by 90% on the prior month to £1.9bn.

The central bank said the rise pushed the annual growth rate for all forms of unsecured credit from 3.2% to a two-year high of 4.4%, raising the total outstanding balance of consumer credit to £199.5bn.

With shoppers turning to cheaper supermarkets such as Lidl and Aldi to make ends meet and increasing numbers of families saying they are being forced to choose between eating and heating, anti-poverty charities said it was worrying that consumers were spending more on credit cards.

Joanna Elson, the chief executive of the Money Advice Trust, the charity that runs National Debtline and Business Debtline, said the figures provide “an indicator of the underlying challenges households face in meeting the growing cost of living” as she called on the chancellor to provide more targeted help for hard-pressed households. “Our concern is that more people will be pushed to credit to cover rising bills, which could be storing up problems further down the line when repayments are due,” she said.

Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesperson Christine Jardine said it was unsurprising that households were turning to credit cards when the government was adding to “real-terms cuts to household incomes with its stealth taxes and its failures on pensions and benefits”. She said: “More and more people will have no choice but to turn to credit cards, massively increasing their long-term costs, just to make ends meet.”

Some economists said it was possible the increase in credit card spending, which followed the lifting of restrictions related to the Omicron variant, showed a renewed confidence among consumers before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Paul Dales, the chief UK economist at the consultancy Capital Economics, said: “It is more likely that households had the confidence to borrow and spend a bit more and/or were willing to use borrowing/savings to smooth their spending.”

Number of UK households with large debts rises by a third
Read more
However, Samuel Tombs, the chief economist at the consultancy Pantheon Macroeconomics, said separate figures showing a collapse in consumer confidence between January and March, and a sharp slowing of mortgage lending, pointed to caution among most households.

“The big rise in consumer borrowing in February – the largest since April 2018 – likely reflects households attempting to maintain their consumption at a time when real disposable income is falling sharply, rather than them going on a spending spree,” he said. Bank figures also showed that consumers were supported in their efforts to borrow by lower loan rates in February, despite an increase in the central bank’s base rate from 0.1% to 0.5% between December and February. Credit card interest rates averaged 18.26%, down 0.29 percentage points, while standard credit loans fell to 6.14% from 6.23%.

Tombs added that the value of “excess savings” edged higher to £186.0bn, from £185.7bn in January, showing that households were unwilling to run down their savings while the economic outlook was uncertain. The Treasury’s independent forecaster, the Office for Budget Responsibility, has predicted that the UK’s economic growth will be sustained this year and next by consumers spending much of their accumulated savings. Tombs said the stock of unsecured credit last month was “a hefty £26bn below its pre-Covid peak”, so households without savings should be able to ramp up their borrowing further. “We continue to think, therefore, that the economy will narrowly avoid sliding into recession this year, despite the grim outlook for households’ real incomes,” he added.

UK credit card borrowing surges amid cost of living crisis

Concerns that low-income households are turning to expensive forms of lending as inflation soars

www.theguardian.com

 

[for_his_glory]

I have a friend who ties many things to the Jesuits as well, and I've written studies on Dominionism, and the oath that the Jesuits are required to take in relation to it (an oath which is truly bloodthirsty, for such a seemingly peaceful organization on the outside).

I have an acquaintance that used to be a High Priest in the Jesuits who now exposes them for who they are. This is what he has written.

Each Jesuit Provincial has to take the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction when a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command when he is conducted into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order. There are only three others present standing in front of the altar. On either side stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow or white, which are the Papal colors. The other a black banner with a dagger and red cross above a skull and crossbones, with the letters INRI and below them the Latin words IUSTUM, NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS meaning it is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.

INRI are the initials for the Latin phrase “Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdaeorvm”. In English reads Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews. The Roman Empire in the time of Pontius Pilate deemed Jesus as a heretic King over the Jews and this is why he ordered this plaque to be placed above the head of Jesus while hanging on the cross.

Pontius Pilate had this nailed above the head of Jesus when He was crucified on the cross, John 19:19, and we can still see INRI on Catholic crucifixes hanging in every Catholic Church.

Back to the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction. Upon the floor is a red cross at which the candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the blade and holds the point against his heart as the Superior still holding it by the hilt. The candidate then cuts himself enough to draw blood as part of the blood oath he is now ready to take. The Superior then addresses the elected candidate with the beginning of the oath.

Here is just a short snippet of the lengthy Jesuit Blood Oath as the candidate makes all allegiance to the Pope. The oath is given by the Superior Jesuit General of the Society of Jesus as it appears in the JESUIT Extreme Oath of Induction recorded in the Journals of the 62D Congress, 3d Session of the U.S. (House Calendar No. 397. Report No. 1523) Congressional Record House, 15 Feb. 1913, pp3215-3216:

I further more promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants heads against the walls in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. You can find the full oath online.​

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have an acquaintance that used to be a High Priest in the Jesuits who now exposes them for who they are. This is what he has written.

Each Jesuit Provincial has to take the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction when a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command when he is conducted into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order. There are only three others present standing in front of the altar. On either side stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow or white, which are the Papal colors. The other a black banner with a dagger and red cross above a skull and crossbones, with the letters INRI and below them the Latin words IUSTUM, NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS meaning it is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.

INRI are the initials for the Latin phrase “Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdaeorvm”. In English reads Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews. The Roman Empire in the time of Pontius Pilate deemed Jesus as a heretic King over the Jews and this is why he ordered this plaque to be placed above the head of Jesus while hanging on the cross.

Pontius Pilate had this nailed above the head of Jesus when He was crucified on the cross, John 19:19, and we can still see INRI on Catholic crucifixes hanging in every Catholic Church.

Back to the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction. Upon the floor is a red cross at which the candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the blade and holds the point against his heart as the Superior still holding it by the hilt. The candidate then cuts himself enough to draw blood as part of the blood oath he is now ready to take. The Superior then addresses the elected candidate with the beginning of the oath.

Here is just a short snippet of the lengthy Jesuit Blood Oath as the candidate makes all allegiance to the Pope. The oath is given by the Superior Jesuit General of the Society of Jesus as it appears in the JESUIT Extreme Oath of Induction recorded in the Journals of the 62D Congress, 3d Session of the U.S. (House Calendar No. 397. Report No. 1523) Congressional Record House, 15 Feb. 1913, pp3215-3216:

I further more promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants heads against the walls in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. You can find the full oath online.​

Yep. Cheery stuff. I suppose I would be one of those heretics if they ever got around to me, but I doubt I would ever garner that much attention.

Regarding the standard of living crisis, I also found this in regard to the situation in Australia. As per the dream and it's interpretation, I found the following two paragraphs particularly interesting:

Residential property prices rose nationally by an average of 23.7 percent, the biggest increase on record... Any increase in [interest] rates will hit the working class the hardest. Loans and advances across the economy stand at $2,966.1 billion, or around 150 percent of GDP. Hit by declining incomes, ordinary people have gone into ever greater debt, much of it in housing costs.

According to the Australian Prudential and Regulation Authority, almost a quarter of mortgage loans in the December quarter were to households with debt six times greater than income. With wages forecast to remain stagnant at less than 3 percent this year, any interest rate rise could push hundreds of thousands of households over the financial cliff. A possible fall in house prices could also leave them with a mortgage greater than the value of the property it secures.
Australia’s rising cost of living outpacing official inflation

In other words, any significant rise in interest rates and/or fall in housing prices that they would experience at this point could leave them financially "underwater," just as the dream suggested.

 

[JLB]

I have an acquaintance that used to be a High Priest in the Jesuits who now exposes them for who they are. This is what he has written.

Each Jesuit Provincial has to take the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction when a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command when he is conducted into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order. There are only three others present standing in front of the altar. On either side stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow or white, which are the Papal colors. The other a black banner with a dagger and red cross above a skull and crossbones, with the letters INRI and below them the Latin words IUSTUM, NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS meaning it is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.

INRI are the initials for the Latin phrase “Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdaeorvm”. In English reads Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews. The Roman Empire in the time of Pontius Pilate deemed Jesus as a heretic King over the Jews and this is why he ordered this plaque to be placed above the head of Jesus while hanging on the cross.

Pontius Pilate had this nailed above the head of Jesus when He was crucified on the cross, John 19:19, and we can still see INRI on Catholic crucifixes hanging in every Catholic Church.

Back to the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction. Upon the floor is a red cross at which the candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the blade and holds the point against his heart as the Superior still holding it by the hilt. The candidate then cuts himself enough to draw blood as part of the blood oath he is now ready to take. The Superior then addresses the elected candidate with the beginning of the oath.

Here is just a short snippet of the lengthy Jesuit Blood Oath as the candidate makes all allegiance to the Pope. The oath is given by the Superior Jesuit General of the Society of Jesus as it appears in the JESUIT Extreme Oath of Induction recorded in the Journals of the 62D Congress, 3d Session of the U.S. (House Calendar No. 397. Report No. 1523) Congressional Record House, 15 Feb. 1913, pp3215-3216:

I further more promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants heads against the walls in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. You can find the full oath online.​

This needs to be posted in the Catholic safe area.

 

[Mungo]

This needs to be posted in the Catholic safe area.

The Catholic safe area is meant to be just that - not a forum for extreme anti-Catholic bigotry.

The so called “Jesuit Oath” is a fabrication with no factual basis. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia this oath was the product of the imagination of the forger Robert Ware (mid to late 1600’s).

Here’s an excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia article “Impostors”:
"Robert Ware the forger, the author of "Foxes and Firebrands", who has of late years been so thoroughly exposed by Father Bridgett, traded upon the same prejudices. His more public career began contemporaneously with that of Oates in 1678, and by sheltering himself behind the high reputation of his dead father, Sir James Ware, amongst whose manuscripts he pretended to discover all kinds of compromising papers, he obtained currency for his forgeries, remaining almost undetected until modern times. Many foul aspersions upon the character of individual popes, Jesuits, and other Catholics, and also upon some Puritans, which have found their way into the pages of respectable historians, are due to the fabrications of "this literary skunk", as Fr. Bridgett not unjustifiably calls him (see Bridgett, "Blunders and Forgeries", pp. 209-296).

I had hoped that Staff on this forum could do better than descend to this sort of stuff.

 

[JLB]

The Catholic safe area is meant to be just that - not a forum for extreme anti-Catholic bigotry.

I dont find it extreme anti Catholic.

Do the Jesuits represent the Catholic Church?

I believe people should be made aware of such things.

Just like Mormons or JW's dont represent the teachings of Christ. We should make people aware.





JLB

 

[JLB]

The so called “Jesuit Oath” is a fabrication with no factual basis.

Ok. You are free to believe that, and therefore try to refute it.

Maybe you know some Jesuits that might share some of their litature about their beliefs and practices.



JLB