Rev 6:12-13 fulfilled??

[atrhick]

Greetings my brothers and sisters in the name of our Great Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Not many Christians today know or have even heard of the “Great Lisbon Earthquake†which happened on November 1, 1755 or the Dark Day in History which occured on May 19th 1780 let alone the implication it has in regards to bible prophecy.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

The Great Lisbon Earthquake.

On November 1, 1755 at around 9:40 a massive earthquake rocked the city of Lisbon, the following tsunami and fire caused near-total destruction leaving in its wake an estimated death toll of 60,000 to 100,000 people dead. Geologists estimate today that the Lisbon earthquake would have rated 9 on the Richter scale with the epicenter in the Atlantic Ocean about 200km west southwest of the Cape St. Vincent.

So the question is why would I try to attach this event to the above prophecy? Why not some other earthquake; After all there have been other earthquakes that have kill more people an cause more destruction. Well according to that same prophecy cretin events happen in succession of each other.

The Dark Day.

Most of you I am sure have heard it said on many occasions that†Jesus is coming soon†maybe from Your parents, Pastor, perhaps even an Elder, Deacon maybe even a close friend or Stranger, but how soon, is soon! On May 19th 1780; known as†The Dark Dayâ€Â.

History records a great darkness, that rendered the day hideously dark beyond anything anyone have ever experience in recorded history. Millions of people saw it. From evening time until after midnight, not even one ray of light could pass thugh the thick darkness.

Soon after the event it was dubbed “the blackness of darkness!†one eye-witness Said "I Could not help conceiving, at the time, that if every luminous body in the universe Had been shrouded in impenetrable darkness, or struck out of existence, the darkness could not have been more complete."

All of this took place on May 19th 1780, 25 years after what we know now as the “Great Lisbon Earthquakeâ€Â.

If I where to be finished at this point you could look at me and say “well what Happen to the Moon turning into blood? And all the other stuff†and you would be right to do so. The next thing that Rev 6:12 said would happen is

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal… and the moon became as blood;

Now after midnight the moon could be seen as it was fully dark still but as one eye-witness said, "it had not the least effect to dispel the death-like shadows.†However the darkness disappeared after some time, and then the moon, when first visible, had the appearance of blood.

The next event to take place was a meteor shower which took place on November 13, 1833 and known as “The Great Leonid Meteor Storm of 1833†which covered the sky in a wonderful array lights.



Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


Since the last of these events in this prophecy it has been 175 years. The last and final events of this prophecy is as follows

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Let us all hope we will be ready for this day when out Great Lord and savior comes to take us home.

Amen

 

[Vic C.]

Greetings my brothers and sisters in the name of our Great Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Not many Christians today know or have even heard of the “Great Lisbon Earthquake†which happened on November 1, 1755 or the Dark Day in History which occured on May 19th 1780 let alone the implication it has in regards to bible prophecy.

Hi atrhick,

I've heard about these and a few others. Now earthquakes are common and the moon turning red is less common but is still a natural phenomenon. The two happening at almost the same time... that's a different story. 8-)

There is also some support that events as described in Revelation did happen in the latter years of the 60s AD... about the time of the Jewish war with the Romans. I'm not going out on the limb and saying this was prophecy fulfilled, but if I was looking for events in the past, this is where I'd be looking. ;-)

I also think this should be in the End Times/Prophecy Forum.

 

[Agricola]

and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

This refers to Lunar and Solar eclipse . A lunar eclipse turns the moon red and a solar eclipse blots out just about all the sun leaving a halo of light spilling out around the edges of the moon, this gives the impression that the sun has turned black.

People often use the sky was covered in smoke, ash or whatever that creates a thick cloud so the sun can not penetrate it. The only flaw in that is that you can not see the sun. The Bible says that you can see they sun, but its turned black, not the sky turned black and the sun dissapeared. A solar eclipse will leave the sun looking black.

WATCH! and look to the heavens, for when there are lunar and solar eclipses over Jerusalem these are the signs of which the Bible speaks .

 

[atrhick]

and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

This refers to Lunar and Solar eclipse . A lunar eclipse turns the moon red and a solar eclipse blots out just about all the sun leaving a halo of light spilling out around the edges of the moon, this gives the impression that the sun has turned black.

People often use the sky was covered in smoke, ash or whatever that creates a thick cloud so the sun can not penetrate it. The only flaw in that is that you can not see the sun. The Bible says that you can see they sun, but its turned black, not the sky turned black and the sun dissapeared. A solar eclipse will leave the sun looking black.

WATCH! and look to the heavens, for when there are lunar and solar eclipses over Jerusalem these are the signs of which the Bible speaks .

I dont think you guys understand what your saying... this was a well documented event.. each of them and as the eye-wichness's said it was not a normal thing.

 

[stovebolts]

I also think this should be in the End Times/Prophecy Forum.

We can do that :-D

 

[Agricola]

I dont think you guys understand what your saying... this was a well documented event.. each of them and as the eye-wichness's said it was not a normal thing.

I perfectly understand what I am saying, Yes this event is obviously going to be well documented, and yes it has similarities to prophecy. However I think that this is not prophecy being fufilled.

Again I urge you to look at the PRECISE description of the prophecy and what happened.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; .....

.....not even one ray of light could pass thugh the thick darkness.

THE SUN became black as sackcloth, NOT the sky. When the oil fields in Kuwait were set on fire, the smoke from them turned the sky black so sun never got through for example. If the sun was hidden for so long, how do you know where it is in the sky to see it turned black? You can not, this does not fit the Bibles description at all.

Again if you look at my pictures above, what does this look like to you? A sun that has been turned black as sackcloth maybe? It certinaly is a better fitting to the description than having a debris and smoke cloud filling the sky.


This prophecy is most likely going to take place when there is a lunar and solar eclipse

There was no solar or lunar eclipse at that time
Here is data from Nasa
Solar Eclipses for year 1755
1755 Mar 28 00:36 P 128 0.687 1.602 0.623 79m - 12.3 12.44 -2.1
1755 Sep 20 10:34 P 133 -0.674 1.678 0.594 86m - 23.9 23.83 -1.7
1756 Feb 16 02:48 N 100 -1.334 0.453 -0.603 - - 9.7 9.92 11.3

There was no Lunar Eclipse either,
1755 Sep 20 10:34 P 133 -0.674 1.678 0.594 86m - 23.9 23.83 -1.7
1756 Feb 16 02:48 N 100 -1.334 0.453 -0.603 - - 9.7 9.92 11.3


I am sorry but I do not take a sky simply turning dark from all the debris and smoke from a huge disaster as anywhere near the description "The Sun turned black as sack cloth".

 

[Vic C.]

This prophecy is most likely going to take place when there is a lunar and solar eclipse

I see a physical problem with this. Does anyone else?

 

[Agricola]

This prophecy is most likely going to take place when there is a lunar and solar eclipse

I see a physical problem with this. Does anyone else?

I assume that you are considering the eclipses will take place on same day, which of course is impossible. Prophecy is notoriously vauge about timings between events etc.

Indeed no one has even batted an eyelid that the 3 events in the original post are seperated by 5 and 53 years, which could indicate that the author of this is simply looking for random events that fit the prophecy and just sticking them together.

Here is how I see this prophecy taking shape. On the day of a solar eclipse, which is turning the sun black, there shall be a huge earthquake, couple of weeks later, which is the shortest time between a lunar and solar eclipse, we have "the falling of stars" that takes place on same day or a day after the lunar eclipse, which will turn the moon red.

events taking place within a few weeks of each other is more dramatic and deifies probabilty which is harder to simply pass off as chance, opposed to joining together 3 events that are 58 years apart.

 

[turnorburn]

Color me stupid but there have been times on the Hebrew calender when events
similar have happened, one writer said within the next ten years it would happen
for a final time. We by nature are drawn to drama, we get tired of the natural and
seek the super natural, which takes energy while at the same time grasping our full
attention. What does our Lord think of this, I don't believe it angers him just
disappoints him, in my humble opinion I believe this in turn excites him, from Mark
16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

 

[atrhick]

here is some more detail...

The Great Earthquake

One of the most extensively felt earthquakes ever recorded occurred November 1, 1755. Extending over an area of at least four million square miles, it covered the greater part of Europe, Africa, and America. Seventy thousand people were killed. In Lisbon, Portugal violent shaking lasted for at least six minutes, destroying most of the city. The sea rose fifty feet above its ordinary level. Encyclopaedia Britannica called it 'the most famous of all earthquakes.' G. A. Eiby, in About Earthquakes, referred to it as 'the greatest earthquake on record.'"

Source: Encyclopaedia Britannica (1961 ed.), Vol. 7, p. 848.
"Probably the most famous of all earthquakes is that which destroyed Lisbon on Nov. 1, 1755. There were three great earthquakes (the first was the largest) at 9:40 A.M., 10 A.M. and at noon. The main shock lasted six to seven minutes, an unusually long duration. Within six minutes at least 30,000 people were killed, all large public buildings and 12,000 dwellings were demolished. It was a church day, and great loss of life occurred in the churches. A fire followed which burned for six days. A marble quay at the riverside disappeared into the river bottom laden with people. Alexander von Humboldt stated that the total area shaken was four times that of Europe."

Source: G. A. Eiby, About Earthquakes (New York: Harper, 1957), pp. 141, 142.
"By far the most spectacular earthquake of earlier times was that of Lisbon, in 1755. This has some claim to be regarded as the greatest earthquake on record. If it is possible to believe reports, the felt area, which was certainly more than 700 miles in radius, extended from the Azores to Italy, and from England to North Africa. A source of confusion in the reports of this shock, which makes it difficult to judge the real extent of the felt area, was the widespread occurrence of seiches,...wave movements in ponds and lakes...
Oscillations of this kind were observed in France, Italy, Holland, Switzerland, and England, and reports of the movements even came from Norway and Sweden, at a distance of nearly 1800 miles from the epicentre. In those countries, however, the shock was certainly not felt...
In 1755, the damage to Lisbon itself was very great. At that time, the city had about 230,000 inhabitants, nearly 30,000 of whom were killed, according to conservative estimates. Great numbers of people were in the churches, for it was All Saints’ Day, and the time of the first Mass. The shock was followed by a tsunami (tidal wave about twenty feet in height, and by fire.
The disaster shocked all Europe, and the moralists and the wiseacres were not slow to make capital of it."

The Dark Day.

"The United States had barely been born when on May 19, 1780 it witnessed what has been remembered in history as the great Dark Day. According to the Boston Gazette, 'there was the appearance of midnight at noonday.' The darkness began around 10 a.m. Candles were lighted; animals thought it was night. The Connecticut Historical Collections describes the tension in the state legislature where, 'a very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand.' The poet John Greenleaf Whittier called it 'a horror of great darkness.'"

"The Collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society, referring to the Dark Day, contains this record: 'The darkness of the following evening was probably as gross as ever has been observed... If every luminous body in the universe had been shrouded in impenetrable shades, or struck out of existence, the darkness could not have been more complete. A sheet of white paper held within a few inches of the eyes was equally invisible with the blackest velvet... This gross darkness held ‘till about one o’clock, although the moon had fulled but the day before.'"

Source: The Boston Gazette and the Country Journal, May 29, 1780, p. 4.
"About eleven o’clock the darkness was such as to demand our attention, and put us upon making observations. At half past eleven, in a room with three windows, 24 panes each, all open towards the south-east and south, large print could not be read by persons of good eyes. About twelve o’clock the windows being still open, a candle cast a shade so well defined on the wall, as that profiles were taken with as much ease as they could have been in the night. About one o’clock a glin of light which had continued ‘till this time in the east, shut in, and the darkness was greater than it had been for any time before, Between one and two o’clock, the wind from the west freshened a little, and a glin appeared in that quarter. We dined about two the windows all open, and two candles burning on the table. In the time of the greatest darkness some of the dunghill fowls went to their roost: Cocks crowed in answer to one another as they commonly do in the night: Woodcocks, which are night birds, whistled as they do only in the dark: Frogs peeped In short, there was the appearance of midnight at noonday."

Source: Samuel Williams (a Harvard professor), Memoirs of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences: to the End of the Year 1783 (Boston: Adams and Nourse, 1785), Vol. 1. pp. 234, 235.
[p. 234]
"People were unable to read common print determine the time of day by their [p. 235] clocks or watches dine or manage their domestic business, without the light of candles. In some places, the darkness was so great, that persons could not see to read common print in the open air, for several hours together."

Source: Timothy Dwight, quoted in Connecticut Historical Collections, compiled by John Warner Barber (2d ed.; New Haven: Durrie & Peck and J. W. Barber, 1836), p. 403.
"The 19th of May, 1780, was a remarkable dark day. Candles were lighted in many houses; the birds were silent and disappeared, and the fouls retired to roost. The legislature of Connecticut was then in session at Hartford. A very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand. The House of Representatives, being unable to transact their business, adjourned. A proposal to adjourn the council was under consideration. When the opinion of Colonel [Abraham] Davenport was asked, he answered, 'I am against an adjournment. The day of judgment is either approaching, or it is not. If it is not, there is no cause for an adjournment: if it is, I choose to be found doing my duty. I wish therefore that candles may be brought.'"

Source: John Greenleaf Whittier, "Abraham Davenport," in his Complete Poetical Works (Cambridge ed.; Boston: Houghton, 1894), p. 260.
"‘Twas on a May-day of the far old year Seventeen hundred eighty, that there fell Over the bloom and sweet life of the Spring, Over the fresh earth and the heaven of noon, A horror of great darkness. Men prayed, and women wept; all ears grew sharp To hear the doom-blast of the trumpet shatter The black sky, that the dreadful face of Christ Might look from the rent clouds, not as he looked A loving guest at Bethany, but stern As Justice and inexorable Law. Meanwhile in the old State House, dim as ghosts, Sat the lawgivers of Connecticut, Trembling beneath their legislative robes. 'It is the Lord’s Great Day! Let us adjourn,' Some said; and then, as if with one accord, All eyes were turned to Abraham Davenport. He rose, slow cleaving with his steady voice The intolerable hush. 'This well may be The Day of Judgment which the world awaits; But be it so or not, I only know My present duty, and my Lord’s command To occupy till He come. So at the post Where He hath set me in His providence, I choose, for one, to meet Him face to face, No faithless servant frightened from my task, But ready when the Lord of the harvest calls; And therefore, with all reverence, I would say, Let God do His work, we will see to ours. Bring in the candles.'"

Source: Discourse by eyewitness Elam Potter, delivered May 28, 1780, in Enfield, Conn., quoted in The Advent Herald, March 13, 1844, p. 46.
"Perhaps some, by assigning a natural cause of this, ascribing it to the thick vapor in the air, will endeavor to evade the force of its being a sign, but, the same objection will lie against earthquakes being signs which our Lord expressly mentions as such. For my part, I really consider the darkness as one of the prodigies foretold in the text; designed for our admonition, and warning."


Question: How widespread was this "Dark Day"? Was it limited unto a small portion of the eastern coast of the U.S.A.?

Clearly Massachusetts and Connecticut were affected, but beyond that small area, I have encountered no other records of this event. Thus my skepticism and removing this to only a possibility as opposed to a probability.


The Metior Shower.

"On November 13, 1833, from 2 a.m. until daylight, the sky all over North America was aflame with meteors. One observer remarked, 'It seemed as if the whole starry heavens had congregated at one point near the zenith, and were simultaneously shooting forth, with the velocity of lightning, to every part of the horizon; and yet they were not exhausted.' Astronomer W. J. Fisher, in The Telescope, called it 'the most magnificent meteor shower on record.'"

Source: Benjamin Gorton, A View of Spiritual, or Anti-typical Babylon (Troy [N.Y.]: the Author, 1808), p. 73.
"The second is that of the moon’s turning to blood; this I have not seen, but, from information, I have reason to believe it did take place between 2 o’clock and day break in the morning of the same night after which the sun was darkened, which was said to appear as a clotter of blood; and it is the more probable, as that night, before the moon appeared, was as dark, in proportion, as the day, and of course would give the moon an extraordinary appearance-not suffering her to give her light."

Source: Denison Olmsted, "Observations on the Meteors of November 13th, 1833," The American Journal of Science and Arts, 25 ([Jan.?] 1834), 363, 365, 366, 386, 393, 394.
[p. 363] "The morning of November 13th, 1833, was rendered memorable by an exhibition of the phenomenon called SHOOTING STARS, which was probably more extensive and magnificent than any similar one hitherto recorded...
Probably no celestial phenomenon has ever occurred in this country, since its first settlement, which was viewed with so much admiration and delight by one class of spectators, or with so much astonishment and fear by another class...
[p. 365] The reader may imagine a constant succession of fire balls, resembling sky rockets, radiating in all directions from a point in the heavens, a few degrees south-east of the zenith, and following the arch of the sky towards the horizon... The balls, as they travelled down the vault, usually left after them a vivid streak of light, and just before they disappeared, exploded, or suddenly resolved themselves into smoke. No report or noise of any kind was observed, although we listened attentively... The flashes of light, although less intense than lightning, were so bright as to awaken people in their beds. One ball that shot off in the north-west direction, and explo- [p. 366] ded a little northward of the star Capella, left, just behind the place of explosion, a phosphorescent train of peculiar beauty... [p. 386] The meteors began to attract notice by their unusual frequency or brilliancy, from nine to twelve o’clock in the evening, were most striking in their appearance, from two to five, arrived at their maximum, in many places, about four o’clock, and continued till rendered invisible by the light of day"

Source: Peter M. Millman, "The Falling of the Stars," The Telescope, 7 (May-June, 1940), 57.
"To understand the use of the word shower in connection with shooting stars we must go back to the early morning hours of Nov. 13, 1833, when the inhabitants of this continent [of North America] were in fact treated to one of the most spectacular natural displays that the night sky has produced... For nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze... More than a billion shooting stars appeared over the United States and Canada alone."

Source: Denison Olmsted, Letters on Astronomy, Addressed to a Lady: in Which The Elements of the Science Are Familiarly Explained in Connexion With Its Literary History (1840 ed.), pp. 348, 349.
"The shower pervaded nearly the whole of North America, having appeared in nearly equal splendor from the British possessions on the north to the West-India Islands and Mexico on the South, and from sixty-one degrees of longitude east of the American coast, quite to the Pacific Ocean on the west. Throughout this immense region, the duration was nearly the same."

Source: J. T. Buckingham, "The Meteoric Shower," The New-England Magazine, 6 (Jan.-June, 1834), 47, 48.
"Neither language, nor the pencil, can adequately picture the grandeur and magnificence of the scene... It may be doubted, whether any description has surpassed, in accuracy and impressiveness, that of the old negro in Virginia, who remarked 'It is awful, indeed, sir, it looked like ripe crab-apples falling from the trees, when shaking them for cider.'"

Source: Garrick Mallery, "Picture-Writing of the American Indians," [U.S.] Bureau of Ethnology. Tenth Annual Report... to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, 1888-‘89 (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1893), p. 723.
"The five winter counts [chronological records in picture writing naming each year (winter) by an outstanding event] next cited all undoubtedly refer to the magnificent meteoric display of the morning of November 13, 1833, which was witnessed throughout North America and which was correctly assigned to the winter corresponding with that of 1833-‘34. All of them represent stars having four points, except The-Swan, who draws a globular object followed by a linear track.
Fig. 1219. It rained stars. Cloud-Shield’s Winter Count, 1833-‘34. White-Cow-Killer calls it 'Plenty-stars winter.'
Fig. 1220. The stars moved around. American-Horse’s Winter Count, 1833-‘34. This shows one large four-pointed star as the characterizing object and many small stars, also four-pointed.
Fig. 1221. Many stars fell. The Flame’s Winter Count, 1833-‘34. The character shows six stars above the concavity of the moon.
Fig. 1222. Dakotas witnessed magnificent meteoric showers; much terrified. The- Swan’s Winter Count, 1833-‘34.
Battiste Good calls it 'Storm-of-stars winter,' and gives as the device a tipi with stars falling around it. This is presented in Fig. 1223."

Source: Frederick Douglass, Life and Times of Frederick Douglass (New York: Pathway Press, 1941), p. 117. (Original edition 1855.)
"I witnessed this gorgeous spectacle, and was awe-struck. The air seemed filled with bright descending messengers from the sky. It was about daybreak when I saw this sublime scene. I was not without the suggestion, at the moment, that it might be the harbinger of the coming of the Son of Man; and in my then state of mind I was prepared to hail Him as my friend and deliverer. I had read that the 'stars shall fall from heaven,' and they were now falling."


If we closely examine the data presented, we have a few 'holes' in the data represented by the 'ellipses' above. I am always leery whenever I see an ellipsis or ellipses and an immediate red flag goes up for me. More often than not I have seen an ellipsis(ses) misused. Further, references unto the moon turning to blood are poorly documented and sketchy at best.
..
..

so in the end I think this maybe a Duel prophecy ... I posted this to see what you guys think. not to prove this is fact!!!!

 

[Vic C.]

I assume that you are considering the eclipses will take place on same day, which of course is impossible. Prophecy is notoriously vauge about timings between events etc.

Not really. That is an impossibility. I was trying to envision this as happening within a couple of days and it just didn't fit. It would have to be withing one or two lunar cycles. You elaborated a bit and now I understand where you are coming from... thanks.

 

[Bick]

To all believers and students of the scriptures:

Revelation is still future, the clue being Rev. 1:10, Where John tells us he was 'in spirit in the Lord's day.' In the Greek John could say it this way, for he was in 'that day' in his vision.

The book is Hebrew in character with hundreds of quotes or references to the Hebrew Scriptures.

In Rev. 1:1, the things shown to his servants will come to pass SWIFTLY, not 'shortly'.
The Greek is "en taxei" meaning "in swiftness" or "with swiftness", thus "swiftly."

The 7 ecclesias will be Jewish assemblies in that future time.

They can't be Christian churches at the time John wrote the book. For instance, history shows there was no "church of Thyratira" when John penned the book.

Oh, there are many other logical and internal reasons for it being the day of the Lord, or as some would label it, 'the day of Jehovah.'

The best commentary I have found is The Apocalypse by E. W. Bullinger. If you are interested, you can down load it by going to Philologos.com, and search for The Apocalypse by E.W. Bullinger.