Revelation 3:10: The Hour of Temptation

[Kidron]

There are two comings. The first is known as His appearing, when He comes in the clouds to gather His elect (Matt. 24:31). The second is His second coming, when He comes to judge the nations (Matt. 25:31).

2 Timothy 4:1 - "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"

-
2 apperarneces....

1. RAPTURE....we hit the Sky, are "changed"...= .Judge the "quick"= the quickening, (this is the born again who are quickened..Ephesians 2:1) = judgement seat of Christ.

2. "His Kingdom"....(2nd advent.....millennial reign, Throne of David, @Jerusalem, believers with him to rule with him.) (Satan is put in the "bottomless pit") at this time.

 

[Chopper]

We might disagree as many do see things that others might not, but the important thing is that we be prepared when Jesus does return for His Bride. I use to believe in a pretrib Rapture, but the supporting scriptures those teachers use say nothing of the exact time of Christ return for no one knows when that will be. 1Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 only says at the last trump for the trump shall sound then we will be changed and be with the Lord forever. Notice a couple of points here, the last trump being the seventh trump entails everything from Rev 11:15-20:15. Scripture says at the last trump that will sound, but never states at what point of it sounding that we will be given our new glorified bodies and then be with the Lord forever.

Those pretrib teachers also use Rev chapter 4 to prove we are Raptured before the great tribulation, but nowhere does it say that. The only thing Chapter four speaks of is after the messages were given to the seven Churches John being in the Spirit was shown the throne room of God. Actually it was Rev Chapter 4 that caught my attention for no matter how hard I tried to believe in a pretrib and read and reread it I could see nothing of there being a pretrib Rapture mentioned there. The deeper I got into studying Revelations I found the Church (body of Christ) throughout all of Revelations as I already gave those scriptures in post #4. I wish there was a pretrib Rapture, but I just do not see it happening that way anymore.


First woe
First trumpet Rev 8:6-7
Second trumpet Rev 8:8,9
Third trumpet Rev 8:10,11
Fourth trumpet Rev 8:12,13
Fifth trumpet Rev 9:1-12
Second woe
Sixth trumpet Rev 9:13 through 11:14
Third woe
Seventh trumpet Rev 11:15 through Rev 20:15 (seventh trumpet includes all the events that unfold and ends with the great white throne judgment)

Hi there Glory Girl. You have indicated, in several posts, that you no longer believe in a pre-trib Rapture. Can we reason together? I have always believed in the rapture, prior to the tribulation period. Actually, I believe in two gatherings (raptures) The first one is for the Bride of Christ, and the second is for the Church of Jesus Christ who are left after some of the members have gone....Lets look at some Scripture.

My primary Scripture that IMO, supports the pre-trib rapture is....Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

It's been the teaching of Theologians, that the seven churches of Revelation chapters 2 & 3 were actual existing churches when John wrote. Dr. John MacArthur states, "But while not precisely duplicated, they also represent the types of churches that are generally present throughout the entire church age."

I personally believe that today, you will find similar churches. If not all in the USA, certainly in the world. The Church at Philadelphia would be a kind of pattern of our churches that preach/teach the whole counsel of God. I believe that the Church that I attend is one of them. The thing to remember is the first gathering (rapture) will be the pre-trib gathering of the Elect Bride of Christ. These people, throughout the world have already been tested and found faithful There is massive persecution of Christians in various places in the world..

Now, when that first gathering of the Elect Bride happens, in the local churches, the members will be fully aware of what happened. They will also be aware that they were basically "pew warmers" and not active in serving Christ like those who went up in the gathering to Jesus. They will have 3 1/2 years to get it right, and be very serious about their profession and works inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The problem with this "left behind" group is, there will be persecution during that time. Their faith in Jesus Christ will be tested. At the half way point, this happens....

2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

For this group of professing believers who have come to believe in Jesus have come thru the "General Call of the Gospel" I personally believe that not all are truly saved, OR, they for some reason apostatize according to V.3. From what I know about this word "Fall away" it is a religious rebellion. I've always believed that if a person is truly saved, they cannot loose their Salvation, so these people simply were not truly saved.

That's all I'll write for now. I'll try and answer any question you might have.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi there Glory Girl. You have indicated, in several posts, that you no longer believe in a pre-trib Rapture. Can we reason together? I have always believed in the rapture, prior to the tribulation period. Actually, I believe in two gatherings (raptures) The first one is for the Bride of Christ, and the second is for the Church of Jesus Christ who are left after some of the members have gone....Lets look at some Scripture.

My primary Scripture that IMO, supports the pre-trib rapture is....Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

It's been the teaching of Theologians, that the seven churches of Revelation chapters 2 & 3 were actual existing churches when John wrote. Dr. John MacArthur states, "But while not precisely duplicated, they also represent the types of churches that are generally present throughout the entire church age."

I personally believe that today, you will find similar churches. If not all in the USA, certainly in the world. The Church at Philadelphia would be a kind of pattern of our churches that preach/teach the whole counsel of God. I believe that the Church that I attend is one of them. The thing to remember is the first gathering (rapture) will be the pre-trib gathering of the Elect Bride of Christ. These people, throughout the world have already been tested and found faithful There is massive persecution of Christians in various places in the world..

Now, when that first gathering of the Elect Bride happens, in the local churches, the members will be fully aware of what happened. They will also be aware that they were basically "pew warmers" and not active in serving Christ like those who went up in the gathering to Jesus. They will have 3 1/2 years to get it right, and be very serious about their profession and works inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The problem with this "left behind" group is, there will be persecution during that time. Their faith in Jesus Christ will be tested. At the half way point, this happens....

2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

For this group of professing believers who have come to believe in Jesus have come thru the "General Call of the Gospel" I personally believe that not all are truly saved, OR, they for some reason apostatize according to V.3. From what I know about this word "Fall away" it is a religious rebellion. I've always believed that if a person is truly saved, they cannot loose their Salvation, so these people simply were not truly saved.

That's all I'll write for now. I'll try and answer any question you might have.

I have some things to look at here of what you have said and I will get back to you probably tomorrow my friend as I have a few thoughts rolling around in this old head of mine and hubby will be home soon. Oh, how I wish we could sit face to face and talk with each other

 

[Chopper]

I have some things to look at here of what you have said and I will get back to you probably tomorrow my friend as I have a few thoughts rolling around in this old head of mine and hubby will be home soon. Oh, how I wish we could sit face to face and talk with each other

That would be grand. I guess it'll have to wait until we get home. You can come over to my mansion, we'll have a cup of wine and have a great chat.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It always amuses me that it seems like everyone has a different interpretation of Revelation. When these things do happen, we'll all probably say, "wow, I never thought it would be that way."

How can you see these things happen if you're pre-trib?

 

[Eugene]

It always amuses me that it seems like everyone has a different interpretation of Revelation. When these things do happen, we'll all probably say, "wow, I never thought it would be that way."

How can you see these things happen if you're pre-trib?

Would you consider that since some are with Jesus in heaven in the midst of the throne (Rev 4:6) prior to the tribulation, and actually work with Jesus as He hands out judgment that they can observe what and whom they are directing?
Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

 

[Sinthesis]

It always amuses me that it seems like everyone has a different interpretation of Revelation. When these things do happen, we'll all probably say, "wow, I never thought it would be that way."

 

[Chopper]

How can you see these things happen if you're pre-trib?

None of us know the real Truth. I see thru a mirror dimly.

 

[smaller]

The "hour" of "trial" or "temptation" I might see as a collective dividing process, exactly similar to the same account found in Matt. 25 and in other places throughout the scriptures, which has been promised upon the "whole" earth.

It stems from the Promise of Jesus, here:

Luke 12:
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

It is a personal matter of "engagement." That's also why the notions of a collective "unified" resistance of the flesh, which the Spirit is and remains "actively" against (Gal. 5:17) won't happen. Like all the unbelievers gathered under some flesh anti-Christ. It's just not going to happen. What will happen is every man will be against another, even his brother:

Jeremiah 25:31
A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord.

Ezekiel 38:21
And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

God has promised to keep enemies divided. We see this active promise everywhere on the earth, really, since the start of this current wicked age (since Adam.) The end time will culminate this matter.

Believers in Rev. 3 have already been "pre-divided." That is why they will not suffer this particular form of division. The source of this pre-division is found here:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Believers who have already gone through this will understand, and will not be "as" confused when that time comes. They'll understand that they are standing, in their own flesh, in the battle ground. And they'll see how God "actively" deals with our adversaries in the here and now.

It happens, daily, after the Ways that God has already set and shown in His Words. I might term it "the collective insanity" of the flesh, exhibited daily, promised to increase to the end.

 

[for_his_glory]

That would be grand. I guess it'll have to wait until we get home. You can come over to my mansion, we'll have a cup of wine and have a great chat.

Make mine a Rootbeer as I don't like wine . Sorry it took me some time to put this together as I tried to shorten it the best I could in order to address all you said.

I believe the hour of temptation spoken of in Rev 3:10 is that we who are in Christ hold fast His word as we stand in the holy place, which is our faith that is Christ Jesus. It will be a time of great patience and endurance for those who are of Christ during the time of Gods great wrath being poured out into the world and more so when we see the abomination of desolation Daniel spoke of and Jesus told us to flee from, Matthew 24:15.

The hour of temptation that comes upon the whole world in every nations is that of the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth. The beast out of the earth is the son of perdition being the final false prophet (antichrist) that will show lying signs and wonders as he promises peace and safety claiming he is God. Those who received not the love of truth that they might be saved God will send them strong delusion that they will believe the lies of this false prophet sealing their fate forever when they take it's mark as they bow down and worship this beast. John 17:1-12; 2Thessalonians 2:3-12, Rev 13

Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 are very similar passages as we see that immediately after the tribulation of those days, meaning after Gods mighty wrath is poured out into the world during the seven trumpet judgments, Rev 8-11, the sun will be darkened, the moon no longer gives its light, the stars fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens (notice heavens are plural as I will get back to that) shall be shakened then will appear the sign of the Son of God as the sign is the visible Glory of God in Christ as He comes in the clouds and every eye will see Him, Rev 1:7. John 6:40 says Jesus will raise us up on the last day as there is only one resurrection according to John 5:28,29.

The powers of the heavens that will be shaken is that of the war between Michael with his angels who fight against Satan who is the prince of the power of the air, Ephesians 2:2, and his angels as Satan is cast out of the third heaven where God sits on His throne and cast down through the heavens to the earth, Rev 12:7-12. From Rev 12:13 through chapter 13 we read how Satan begins his war on earth as he persecutes the remnant of the body of Christ who are still alive at this time, but they have been instructed by Jesus to stand in the holy place, Matthew 24:15, which is our faith that is Christ Jesus, when they see the abomination of desolation Daniel spoke of in Daniel 7.

Rev 13 is the abomination of desolation when Satan gives power to the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth who is the son of perdition, false prophet (last antichrist) who promises peace and safety during this time of great tribulation that has never been seen before nor ever will be again, Matthew 24:21. This false prophet will cause a great falling away as God sends strong delusion on those who received not the love of truth that they should believe the lies coming out of the mouth of the son of perdition (last false prophet) who through lying signs and wonders will promise peace and safety to all who will take his mark and bow down and worship him, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12.

I believe all things from Rev 13-20 will come quickly as Jesus said He would come quickly with His rewards, Rev 22:7-12. This is how I understand it to be as I will nut shell it. Right after the vial judgments are poured out on those who refused to repent, Rev 16, then in Rev 17 and 18 the mystery Babylon is described and then destroyed. Rev 19 says the marriage of the Lamb has come, but does not say we are gathered to Jesus yet as only the time has been made ready. The army that returns with Jesus are the army of warring angels in heaven that come with Him as He comes first to destroy the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire and then the remnant being those used by Satan to rule over the nations as now the enemy have become the footstool of God, Psalms 110:1; Luke 20:43.

Rev 20 Jesus then establishes His kingdom here on earth as He binds Satan for a time as He then calls all who are in their graves, John 5:28,29, as He separates the sheep from the goats as the sheep are now all made alive caught up together with those sheep who are still alive at His coming and given new glorified bodies and are now with the Lord forever, 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. Satan is loosed for a time as he sends his army of angels to surround the camp of the saints, but they are devoured by fire that God sends down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. Those who have rejected Christ, being the goats stand in Gods great white throne judgement and will also be cast into the lake of fire as their names are not written in the book of life. Then in Rev 21 and 22 God restores the earth as it was in the beginning and ushers down the new Jerusalem as all things have been fulfilled and we are with the Lord forever.

 

[Chopper]

I don't believe that there's anything in your theology that I disagree with. I too am a student of Revelation. I also see many folk who will be saved during the seven year tribulation. The 144,000 Jewish Evangelists, the 2 Witnesses, the Angel that flies thru the sky, and those who get saved will be witnessing. It's incredible that during such devastation and loss of life, that many will be saved during that whole time.

I didn't post any Scripture as I believe you already know what I'm writing.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't believe that there's anything in your theology that I disagree with. I too am a student of Revelation. I also see many folk who will be saved during the seven year tribulation. The 144,000 Jewish Evangelists, the 2 Witnesses, the Angel that flies thru the sky, and those who get saved will be witnessing. It's incredible that during such devastation and loss of life, that many will be saved during that whole time.

I didn't post any Scripture as I believe you already know what I'm writing.

One thing I learned about studying Revelations is that you have to really back track through the whole Bible and a lot of history to understand these visions given to John. I really do not think we can even fathom the depths of all that will take place at this time, but I do know it will be a time of greater faith and trusting completely in the Lord until we are gathered up to Him.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

I also see many folk who will be saved during the seven year tribulation. The 144,000 Jewish Evangelists, the 2 Witnesses, the Angel that flies thru the sky, and those who get saved will be witnessing.

I didn't post any Scripture as I believe you already know what I'm writing.

I think you need to post the scripture. I hear many claiming these 144,000 are evangelists, but I have yet to see any scripture supporting this and that many are being saved. But maybe I'm just overlooking these scriptures???