Rom. 13's Higher Powers

[Elijah674]

Elijah here: From another site we read arguments for giving our 'conscience' to govern!
What do you say? (slightly altered)
_______________

--Elijah here:
Never has God given Caesar, Kings, or any other power the

to be a humans ruling conscience pertaining to the [first GREAT commandment of the ten.] The [first table on stone ARE OUR DUTY TO GOD ALONE] and are [WORSHIP COMMANDMENTS!]

Your [men] (Jer. 17:5) that you are pasting up as a [PARTAKER OF] are flat out wrong. When Rom. 13 is read by any Christian who has his Matt. 25 [ALL SLEEPING] eyes [OPEN] can read & understand that Inspiration has ['these higher powers'] relating [ONLY TO THE SECOND TABLE OF THE TEN]. Christ COMMANDED the SEPERATION of God & Ceasar! Again, YOU DO NOT READ WELL!

Why did all of the Danial ones not do as the Kings [ORDERED??????]

--Elijah

Acts 5

[25] Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
[26] Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
[27] And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
[28] Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
[29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
​

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah here: From another site we read arguments for giving our 'conscience' to govern!
What do you say? (slightly altered)
_______________

--Elijah here:
Never has God given Caesar, Kings, or any other power the

to be a humans ruling conscience pertaining to the [first GREAT commandment of the ten.] The [first table on stone ARE OUR DUTY TO GOD ALONE] and are [WORSHIP COMMANDMENTS!]

Your [men] (Jer. 17:5) that you are pasting up as a [PARTAKER OF] are flat out wrong. When Rom. 13 is read by any Christian who has his Matt. 25 [ALL SLEEPING] eyes [OPEN] can read & understand that Inspiration has ['these higher powers'] relating [ONLY TO THE SECOND TABLE OF THE TEN]. Christ COMMANDED the SEPERATION of God & Ceasar! Again, YOU DO NOT READ WELL!

Why did all of the Danial ones not do as the Kings [ORDERED??????]

--Elijah

Acts 5

[25] Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
[26] Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
[27] And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
[28] Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
[29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
​

me again:
Just let the thread die, huh? So what are you going to do when USA enforces 666 or you cannot buy or sell? (and of course it is finally death)

--Elijah​

 

[jasoncran]

it wont be the u.s. only but the whole world.

and we will either be dead by that time or in hiding and growing our own food, some say

i am a pre-tribber. if i am right i wont be on the earth.

 

[Danus]

me again:
Just let the thread die, huh? So what are you going to do when USA enforces 666 or you cannot buy or sell? (and of course it is finally death)

--Elijah

Another question: What will you do when your government asked you to actively participate in something clearly wrong, or against God? How much of ones faith, or respect for what is more righteous in God, should one sell to the governing powers that be?

Personally, I think God made some of us to physically fight for him (Grab a sword or pen) and some not. Paul is not meaning that we should totally submit to government, only that we should not claim Christ as our only government. We should submit (Cooperate with) to the physical government we are lead by.

You also need to consider what Romans is....A LETTER to the church in Rome at that time. Paul did not sit down and say; "I think I'll write a letter and it will be part of the bible."....NO, It's a letter to the church in Roam at that time and it ended up in the bible for all it offers. The letter is also FOR YOU and I, but it is not TO you and I.

 

[Strangelove]

i am a pre-tribber. if i am right i wont be on the earth.

And if your wrong?

 

[Elijah674]

Another question: What will you do when your government asked you to actively participate in something clearly wrong, or against God? How much of ones faith, or respect for what is more righteous in God, should one sell to the governing powers that be?

Personally, I think God made some of us to physically fight for him (Grab a sword or pen) and some not. Paul is not meaning that we should totally submit to government, only that we should not claim Christ as our only government. We should submit (Cooperate with) to the physical government we are lead by.

You also need to consider what Romans is....A LETTER to the church in Rome at that time. Paul did not sit down and say; "I think I'll write a letter and it will be part of the bible."....NO, It's a letter to the church in Roam at that time and it ended up in the bible for all it offers. The letter is also FOR YOU and I, but it is not TO you and I.

?????
You miss the point entirely!

 

[Danus]

?????
You miss the point entirely!

Fill me in then. If I've missed the point, there is not enough presented to gain much of an Idea on your position.

 

[Elijah674]

Fill me in then. If I've missed the point, there is not enough presented to gain much of an Idea on your position.

Sorry, see if this helps? :yes

Elijah here:

EX. 32
[15] And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of [the testimony] were in his hand: the tables were written [on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.]
[16] And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.


Rom. 13
[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth [the ordinance] of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
[4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, [a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.]
[5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, [but also for conscience sake.]
[6] For for [this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.]
[7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
[9] {For this}, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

(OK: Read the 10 & tell yourself where the division of the two tables start & end of ones duty of worship to God & the [second commandment] of one duty to all mankind! And if you will? you can see that this is ones duty only to mankind. (except being God ORDAINED)

And the Higher Powers? The Godhead?? Note Christ in Matt. 22 first..
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment. (the first four are pertaing to Worship God)
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(the next six pertain to Rom. 13's duty to mankind)
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(you do remember that James 2:8-12 found for any one to break just one of the ten, that they were guilty of breaking them all? + Exod. 16 God used just the 'one 7th Day Sabbath' to prove Obedience to all ten. verse 4 & 27-28 find their refusal to keep 'My Commandments'.)

Now notice the division here in Christ Words of..

Matt. 22
[15] Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
[16] And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

[17] Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
(and what did Rom. 13 say about Caesar?)
[18] But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
[19] Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
[20] And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
[21] They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Did you get that? Protestatant USA will wear out Rom. 13 before it is over with! Not knowing what they are talking about. (nor most of earth's population!) And then notice the saved ones of 666 reply...

Acts 5:27-29
[25] Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
[26] Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: [for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.]
[27] And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
(it was not..Do you not Believe Rom. 13!!)

[28] Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
[29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Never is Caesar to get involved with the Worship of God! (First table of four)

 

[jasoncran]

And if your wrong?

i have faced death, and the lord will either stop them from killing me or i will die and be blessed. will i be afraid, of course. but we have the security of the word that says that if we are in him, to be absent in body is to be present with the lord.

i dont worry about the big bad lurking talmuds in the local temple beth shalom.