Romans 5:15-17

[savedbygrace57]

salt

Why do you continue to post when you are not interested in any debate of your comments?

You are rabbit trailing away from my comments. Deal with the specifics of the comments.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ's consequences greater than Adam's consequences

Rom 5:15

15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Paul is now beginning to contrast the effects of the work of Adam and the work of Christ. This he will do no less than five times in the next several verses . Paul here is teaching that both Men are Covenant Heads, and they both represent people. Each Heads actions or deed brings with it results or consequences for the people they represent. Now here in verse 15, Paul makes a statement of fact, which is, that many be dead or died, and this being dead was not because of their own personal sin or wrong doing since they did not physically exist as of yet, but it was through One man's offence or fall or lapse or deviation, that One being Adam [See also vs 12]. There was a Union [in God's reckoning] of Adam and all for whom he represented, a Union so binding that God viewed all whom Adam represented as offending when he did, and the consequences was death. He died and all he represented died 1 Cor 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

You see that ? In Adam ! Now how does one get in Adam ? Did those that Adam represented , that were IN him choose to be in Adam by their own freewill ? Did they have a choice to be in Adam ? Whose choice was it that they were in Adam ?

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Romans 5:


15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift[By One] is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ )

Whose act was more powerful ? Adam's or Christ ?

When we read these verses Paul in His gospel is showing that there was a typical correspondence between adam and Christ, but yet the parallel does show a difference in the nature of their acts and effects.

First the nature of their actions were different in that adam sinned in the most ideal and pristine of circumstances. The Lord Jesus Christ on the other hand remained pure and obedient under the worst of conditions, yet adam sinned and Christ remained righteous. Now between the Two consequences of the actions of the Two, differ somewhat in degree, notice vs 15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Paul is saying, that the Gift [Christ and His work on the Cross] is not like the trespass [adam's transgression] Christ work being a work of Grace [Heb 2:9] and He being God Man, that what He did is way more powerful that what adam did and we in him that act of demerit. Yes his brought as consequences "death" to his offspring: Yet how much more [with no question] does the gift that flows from Grace, the effects of the God Man, overflow to the many, for their benefit..

WELCOME and GREETINGS to Presbyterianville USA.

 

[Saltwater]

WELCOME and GREETINGS to Presbyterianville USA.

Hello Theodore A. Jones,

Mention of Presbyterianville brought back memories of my trip thru the USA last year and some of the towns I visited. Now before I mention some of them and my experiences in them let me apologise to those readers who were expecting to find some meaty apologetics and theology (after all this is an apologetics & theology forum). There is some of that in the following but I have written it in code. Those who know their Bible numerics and are familiar with the Da Vinci code will have no trouble seeing the true intent of my message.

Faithville was pretty interesting. Everyone I met was healthy & rich. When I asked about this they told me it was due to the residents never saying anything negative to each other and only saying positive things – something about the power of words.

One problem in the town was the constant sudden materialisation, without any warning, of gold bars in the most unexpected places! The damage caused to the resident’s Caddies was very annoying until the local panel beater suggested all of the cars be fitted with gold bumper bars. That way the scratches from the gold bars would not be noticeable! The phenomenon first started off as gold dust appearing. The gold dust had a habit of disappearing under tables and cupboards and being blown around by the strong wind which accompanied each materialisation and which made it too hard to collect all of the valuable dust. So one of the residents had a DLB moment (Divine Light Bulb) and prayed for gold bars to appear instead of the dust.

Apostleville was not a very enjoyable place at all. For one thing it was very difficult to drive down a street without hitting one of the many residents who were always walking up and down the middle of each road while blowing a big noisy horn which sounded like a goat being tortured.

When they weren’t blowing the noisy horns the residents would gather together in groups at each street corner and rebuke all sorts of evil spirits. Some of the spirits names I heard mentioned included demon of bingo (a residual demon which stubbornly hung around in the former catholic part of the town), demon of shopping and demon of hovering over churches and messing up the services. Apparently this last demon was a real pesky one as no one knew its real name!!

A resident I met chanting outside of the local liquor store, which seemed to be well patronised, immediately recognised me as a non-local and advised me it would be in my best interests to leave the town ASAP. Apparently the town was only safe for those with special knowledge about demons & spiritual warfare. I left straight away while being grateful for the residents sage advice – at least I think it was a sprig of sage he was waving around the door frame of the liquor store while chanting loudly and spraying the lintel with olive oil!

Baptistville – I ended up driving thru this town after pulling up to read the big Welcome to Baptistville sign. What caught my eye was the sheer size of the welcome sign, the large amount of writing on it and the digital readout for the population which clicked over several times while I hopped out of my new car (a brand new Caddie given to me during my visit to Faithville) to read the whole sign.

The welcome sign was very informative. Apparently Baptistville possessed one of the fastest growing populations of the Bible belt I was touring thru. The incessant growth was due to something they called Once Here Always Here or as the locals called it OHAH. The sign informed visitors to drive thru if they did not intend to live in one of the new suburbs in the town. In fine print at the bottom of the welcome sign it said that those who stayed while attempting to drive thru were predestined to. Being the wily theologian that I am I tossed a coin (given to me in Faithville) which came up tails. This confirmed my impression that I was not one of the predestined ones and I drove thru the town without experiencing any overwhelming desire to stay!

Any way time is running short for my evening Christian yoga class where I will place myself in the physical position of one of the millions of Hindu Gods that yoga uses so that my Christian walk will become stronger. After an hour of yoga I will finish off with some red hot meditation where I will empty my mind so that I can encounter the true God of the universe.

Maybe tomorrow I will mention my visits to Bahaiville, Rainbowtown, Jehovahtown and Episco-something-ville. That is if I can refill my mind after my meditation session!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ's consequences greater than Adam's consequences

Now Paul after stating the consequences of Adam's offence, He switches to the consequences of Christ's obedience. He begins Rom 5:15

15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Christ's consequences are much more than that of Adam's, it communicates the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace. What is this Gift by Grace ? It's Righteousness, lets look at Rom 5:17

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

Its a free gift by God's Grace of Righteousness upon all for whom Christ represented. The word righteousness is the greek word dikaiosynē and it means in this context:

in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God

They receive as a free gift a condition acceptable to God. They have Christ Righteousness laid to their Charge Rom 4:6

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Back to Rom 5:15, this Grace of God and the Gift by Grace , which is by ONE MAN , Jesus Christ, notice " hath abounded to many"

Paul is saying that God's Grace and its benefits are effectually communicated unto the Many. In the greek the definite article is before the many, indicating a definite group, namely, The Church of which Christ was the Head of.

Lets look at this word abounded, it is the greek word perisseuō and means:

a thing which comes in abundance, or overflows unto one, something falls to the lot of one in large measure


to be abundantly furnished with, to have in abundance, abound in (a thing), to be in affluence

What Paul is saying is that all for whom Christ represented from the fall of Adam, are furnished with an abundance of Grace. This is alloted to them, on behalf of Christ.

Now this is True to all whom God viewed as in Christ[as they were in Adam] they were in Union with Him when He rendered His obedience unto death [Phil 2:8] and because of His death, unto them that He represented, the Grace of God and the Free Gift [ Of Righteousness or Justification] hath abounded to them !

 

[Grubal Muruch]

The false teachers of our day are those who teach and preach that election is unconditional.. because the scriptures could not be any more clear on this matter.. that God chose us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

As many as RECEIVED HIM, to them gave HE power to become the sons of God..

Calvinism is perhaps the worst false gospel of our day.

AMEN BROTHER and another AMEN!!!!!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

And of course the scriptures teach us that the grace of God which brings salvation has appeared to all men.. although since you've embraced the false doctrines of Calvinism, you must change this to mean only the elect..

What did YOU DO to be saved..

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

b) Nothing

? ? ?

Through Calvinism, a "man created god" has developed."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

it's not like SBG has done NOTHING, after all, what he has DONE is taken 1/2 of the Bible and thrown out with the trash.
that is at least something.

That's true, you must give credit where credit is due...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All for whom Christ died, they receive by free gift, Justification of life; And since all men without exception do not receive Justification of Life, it is quite obvious that Christ did not die for all men without exception !

The effects of what Christ accomplished for those He was the Representative head of [ His Church] cannot be less effective as the effect of what Adam accomplished by his one offence ! Now Adam's effects to those he represented, condemnation came upon them, it was not offered them, made available for them, it was not their freewill choice, but it came upon them Sovereignly !

So in likewise manner, Christ effects to all those He represented [ The seed of Abraham Heb 2:16] Justification of life came upon them. Neither was it offered them, made available to them, nor was it their freewill choice, but it came upon them Sovereignly ! To deny this is a rejection of what Christ accomplished for His People and its putting the effects of Adam over and above that of Christ, which is dishonoring to Christ to say the least.

Except for the "truth" you got it right...

 

[theLords]

Locked per new announcement.