Sabbath to Sun-day

[Vic C.]

Easter has nothing to do with anything pagan.

You keep telling yourself that. In the meantime, could you explain to us what bunnies, eggs and lillies have to do with the resurrection of our Lord?

 

[guibox]

Easter has nothing to do with anything pagan.

You keep telling yourself that. In the meantime, could you explain to us what bunnies, eggs and lillies have to do with the resurrection of our Lord?

Hmm...well when Mary went to the burial ground, she carried eggs with her...err. and left some of them on the ground for the disciples to find there way...and uh, along the way she saw a bunny rabbit and took it as a sign of..of...REBIRTH!! Yes, yes! And so the eggs symbolize finding our way to Christ and being reborn...as a, uh...bunny?

Hmmm...Perhaps I should study this a bit more...

 

[stray bullet]

Easter has nothing to do with anything pagan.

You keep telling yourself that. In the meantime, could you explain to us what bunnies, eggs and lillies have to do with the resurrection of our Lord?

They have to do with rebirth. For example, the egg relates to Mary Magdaline using it to explain rebirth in Christ.

 

[Vic C.]

:D You two made me laugh. The funny thing is... one of you is serious. :o

 

[SputnikBoy]

We begin with the premise that the Bible doesn't actually teach that we are to meet on the seventh day of the week. Rather, it teaches that we are to meet on the seventh day (without the qualification "of the week"). The Hebrew Old Testament normally uses the unqualified phrase "the seventh day" to refer to days which were not the seventh day of the month, and which could not possibly have fallen on the same day of the week from year to year (e.g. Exod. 12:15,16; 13:6; Lev. 23:6-8; 13:5,6,27,32,34,51; 14:9,39; Num. 6:9; 7:1-48; 19:12,19; 28:17-25; 31:19,24; Deut. 16:1-8; Josh. 6:4,15; Judg. 14:12-18; 2 Sam. 12:18; 1 Kgs. 20:29; Est. 1:10). These uses of the phrase (by far the majority of its uses in the Old Testament) appear simply to mean "seven days later." Moreover, there were some Sabbaths that were not on the seventh day (e.g. Lev. 23:27-32,39)

Similarly, in Exodus 16 where God commanded the Israelites to observe the Sabbath in the wilderness, he indicated which day would be the Sabbath not by referring to days of the week, but by telling them to count the days on which they received manna (Exod. 16:4-5,22-23). The Bible does not say that they began to receive manna on the first day of the week, but marks the time from "the fifteenth day of the second month after their departure from Egypt" (Exod. 16:1). We do not possess an ancient Hebrew calendar, and we do not know on which day the Sabbath fell in the wilderness. In fact, it is entirely possible that the Hebrews did not determine which day the Sabbath was by looking at the calendar to find the seventh day of the week, but instead determined the seventh day of the week by first determining when the Sabbath was.

Assessing all the occurences of "seventh day" in the Old Testament, and looking at the institution of the Sabbath, it seems that the Old Testament does not clearly teach that the Sabbath is to be observed on the seventh day of the week -- or at least that the calendar week is not to be used to determine which day is the seventh.

In the New Testament, the Jews celebrated the Sabbath on what was generally recognized as the seventh day of the week (Matt. 28:1; Mark. 16:1-2; Luke 23:56-24:1), and Jesus recognized their choice of days (e.g. Matt. 12:1-13; Luke 13:14-16). However, neither Jesus nor any other New Testament writer indicated that the Sabbath day always had to fall on the seventh day of the week as determined by any regular calendar.

FAR TOO complex and unnecessary. We don’t need it. The Jews today have continued to observe the Sabbath on the SEVENTH-day as they did in Jesus’ time and way before. We know and always have known which is the 7th-day. To those of us that have given this day a name, it’s Saturday.

Based on this thinking, the New Testament church, under the guidance of the Apostles, apparently felt the freedom to change the day of observance relative to the secular calendar. They still maintained the commanded six-day-plus-one pattern, but shifted their Sabbath observance to the first day of the week relative to the secular calendar.

I realize that the contents of the JM post comes from another source, but where does the above information come from? The Apostles were followers of Jesus Christ and their dedication to Him would NEVER have allowed them to tamper with the Sabbath. Does anyone not realize how significant the Sabbath was to these people? Their religion was a way of life. This was not simply ‘a day’ to be casually tossed aside and replaced by another. The Apostles would have done as commanded by God, no ifs or buts.

Nor would they toss aside the Sabbath and replace it with Sunday simply to support some future argument about a change of Sabbath by 21st Century Christians! Sunday was of no interest to them as a holy day. The only reason we’re being led to believe that it WAS of any importance is because Christians have made it their Sabbath and need to justify it somehow. It’s all a smokescreen. NONE of the Apostles considered the 1st-day a holy day. It’s as simple as that.

They chose this day most probably because it was the day on which Jesus had been raised from the dead (Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 25:1; John 20:1).

Again, the Apostles ‘chose’ no such day. This is all a sham to uphold and maintain mainstream Christianity 'as is'. If they were to come forward now and say, “Whoops, we’ve been keeping the wrong Sabbath, folks …sorry about that!†Christendom would collapse into a heap and probably never recover.

The risen Lord also chose the first day of the week on which to manifest himself to his disciples when they were gathered together (John 20:19,26).

What this has got to do with a change of Sabbath-day, I will never know. Then again, the lack of evidence for any such thing ever having occurred makes supporters of Sunday-Sabbath clutch at whatever straws they can. Just imagine someone reading John 20:19,26 and saying excitedly, “Hey I think I’ll now make Sunday my Sabbath!â€Â

In any event, it seems that the first day of the week probably came to be known as the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10),

Yes, it did …thanks to the RCC. This is NOT the ‘Lord’s Day’ as found in Revelation 1:10, however. John is making reference to envisaging events that will take place in the ‘day of the Lord.’ It has nothing to do with Sunday. Nor, do I believe, does it have anything to do with the 7th-day Sabbath which would certainly be the preferred option of the two.

Try Philippians 1:7; 2:16 where Paul makes reference to carrying on the good work until the day of Jesus Christ (the Lord’s Day.) Or, how about 1 Corinthians 1:8; 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:17; 16:14, all of which refer to the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Lord’s Day).

The expression used for the second coming of Jesus – the day of the Lord - has already been established by the time we come to Revelation 1:10. How one can suddenly apply ‘Sunday’ to that established expression defies logic. Then again, who ever said that Christians were necessarily logical?

and seems to have been the day on which the church gathered with the approval of the Apostles (Acts 20:7).

That text has NOTHING to do with the introduction of a ‘new’ holy day at all. They were hungry and simply got together to break bread. They needed to eat and I doubt that they had McDonalds back then so they ‘broke bread.’ We have absolutely no reason NOT to believe that they had kept the Sabbath the previous day. Of course they would have kept the Sabbath. It was their custom which they would NOT break for the world.

Furthermore, they met EVERY day to break bread. It was not necessarily a religious meeting as such. “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together (breaking bread as in a meal) with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people (Acts 3:46-47).â€Â

There does not appear to be any evidence in the New Testament that the early church felt compelled to observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath, and there is some possible evidence that Paul taught that Christians were not obligated to observe that particular day (Col. 2:16).

If Paul taught such a thing then he should be hung, drawn, and quartered …then killed …at least! But, Paul did not and WOULD NOT have taught such a casual approach to such a religiously significant holy day. Some people today are simply not aware as to HOW important the Sabbath was or is. I would suggest a reading of Hebrews 4:9 which quite clearly states (well, maybe NOT so clear) that the Sabbath remains important to God’s people.

In conclusion, the practice of Sunday observance is based first on the understanding that the Bible does not command observance on the seventh day of the calendar week, and second on church tradition established under the approval of the Apostles.

And so say all mainstream Christian Churches who want to survive.

Answer by Ra McLaughlin

 

[JM]

FAR TOO complex and unnecessary. We don’t need it. The Jews today have continued to observe the Sabbath on the SEVENTH-day as they did in Jesus’ time and way before. We know and always have known which is the 7th-day. To those of us that have given this day a name, it’s Saturday.

"Study to shew thyself approved..." nice try, but it doesn't sweep the fact away...

...easter...

I guess we need to stop wearing wedding bans, they come from pagan beliefs... :roll:

 

[SputnikBoy]

FAR TOO complex and unnecessary. We don’t need it. The Jews today have continued to observe the Sabbath on the SEVENTH-day as they did in Jesus’ time and way before. We know and always have known which is the 7th-day. To those of us that have given this day a name, it’s Saturday.

"Study to shew thyself approved..." nice try, but it doesn't sweep the fact away...

Well, I'm not infallable like the Pope. :wink: The contents of my post are open to dispute. So, feel free to dispute them.

 

[thessalonian]

Easter has nothing to do with anything pagan.

You keep telling yourself that. In the meantime, could you explain to us what bunnies, eggs and lillies have to do with the resurrection of our Lord?

They are simply symbols of new life. We have new life in Christ. Do you have any symbols in your SDA Chruches? I'll bet you do. Creation cries out to the glory of God. That some pagan group recognized that a part of creation represents new life and used it in that manner in their cerimonies should not prevent us from recognizing it and using it to help explain the God above or bring meaning to what we believe. Nature tells us about God. It told the pagans as well because God's laws, of which the first commandment is a part of, are written on all men's hearts. Romans 2:14-16.

Paul came in to the aeropogus in Athens in Acts and saw their temples and shires. Some of which are still there today. According to you Paul should have been aghast at the paganism and got out to there. But instead he looked for something to help him explain Christ to them. He used the altar to an unknown God to help explain the one truth God to them. He saw truth amongst the error, using some of what they knew to make a connction with them. This is evangelization. Paul even quoted pagan sages in scripture and his ideas in Romans 12 can be found in some pagan liturature as well.

Blessings

 

[guibox]

Come on thessalonian, that is stretching it a bit far don't you think? Since when is Christianity and the Easter bunny used together to explain 'new life'? They are parallel concepts. It sounds like a weak justification for something that is NOT Christian, has nothing to do with the religious aspect of Easter and comes from pagan origins.

BTW, vic is not SDA from what I know.

 

[Imagican]

http://straitwaytruth.com/artman/publis ... x_43.shtml

This is a 'very good' article on 'how' the Sabbath was 'changed' from Saturday to Sunday.

MEC

 

[thessalonian]

Come on thessalonian, that is stretching it a bit far don't you think? Since when is Christianity and the Easter bunny used together to explain 'new life'? They are parallel concepts. It sounds like a weak justification for something that is NOT Christian, has nothing to do with the religious aspect of Easter and comes from pagan origins.

BTW, vic is not SDA from what I know.

bunnies and eggs are of pagan origin? That is of coruse the root of this all and the origin I would hope you would agree is God. That pagans used it in a symbolic way to reflect their beliefs does not in any way prevent Christians from doing likewise. No streching here.

 

[Vic C.]

Come on thessalonian, that is stretching it a bit far don't you think? Since when is Christianity and the Easter bunny used together to explain 'new life'? They are parallel concepts. It sounds like a weak justification for something that is NOT Christian, has nothing to do with the religious aspect of Easter and comes from pagan origins.

BTW, vic is not SDA from what I know.

He knows I "belong" to a Southern Baptist church. He also knows I share a couple of beliefs with the SDA. That is where the confusion is, no doubt.

I still don't buy into the bunny and egg. I have all I need as a "symbol" of resurrection in the Resurrectee Himself. :angel:

 

[Vic C.]

http://straitwaytruth.com/artman/publish/cat_index_43.shtml

This is a 'very good' article on 'how' the Sabbath was 'changed' from Saturday to Sunday.

MEC

Er, if you say so. I reject the notion that anyone who worships on a Sunday is worshipping some silly Sun god. That is pure rubbish. I worship the Lord and no one else. Show me one verse that suggest that.

In case you missed it in an earlier post of mine:

If we are guily of worshipping a Sun god (which is SO untrue) those who worship on Saturday could be accused of worshipping the Roman god of Time.

You seem to go out of your way to blame Rome for everything wrong in Christianity, including the death of my Master. Why all the finger-pointing?

 

[thessalonian]

Come on thessalonian, that is stretching it a bit far don't you think? Since when is Christianity and the Easter bunny used together to explain 'new life'? They are parallel concepts. It sounds like a weak justification for something that is NOT Christian, has nothing to do with the religious aspect of Easter and comes from pagan origins.

BTW, vic is not SDA from what I know.

He knows I "belong" to a Southern Baptist church. He also knows I share a couple of beliefs with the SDA. That is where the confusion is, no doubt.

I still don't buy into the bunny and egg. I have all I need as a "symbol" of resurrection in the Resurrectee Himself. :angel:

Actually my thoughts were on gui when I posted that bit about SDA's. They are of our new life, not his resurrection.

 

[SputnikBoy]

http://straitwaytruth.com/artman/publish/cat_index_43.shtml

This is a 'very good' article on 'how' the Sabbath was 'changed' from Saturday to Sunday.

MEC

Er, if you say so. I reject the notion that anyone who worships on a Sunday is worshipping some silly Sun god. That is pure rubbish. I worship the Lord and no one else. Show me one verse that suggest that.

You are right, of course. Worshipping God on Sunday is STILL worshipping God. The problem is, however, that Sunday HAS become the recognized and official Christian Sabbath to the exclusion of the God-given 7th-day Sabbath. Whether or not that's an issue to God I'm not sure. To be honest, I doubt that most Christians even give the issue any thought. Sunday is 'church day' to most.

In case you missed it in an earlier post of mine:

If we are guily of worshipping a Sun god (which is SO untrue) those who worship on Saturday could be accused of worshipping the Roman god of Time.

Of course Christians are not guilty of worshipping a sun god. But, the facts DO seem to support the claim that worship of the sun god, Mithra, WAS the reason that Sunday replaced the Sabbath. It's my understanding that Constantine had leanings toward Christianity AND Mithraism. He therefore incorporated the two religions and, wallah, along came Sunday and out went the Sabbath.

The god, Saturn, was never involved in this particular issue but Mithra and Tammuz certainly were. In fact, it concerned God greatly that people held Tammuz in such high regard (Ezekiel 8:14). God found this to be detestable. Even more detestable than this, God directs Ezekiel to where men were bowing down to the sun in the east (Ezekiel 8:16). So, God finds worshipping any other deity (even inadvertantly ...?) to be an abomination.

Whatever the reason/s, at some point in time Sunday WAS substituted for the Sabbath without any authorization from God. Whether this should or should not be of some concern to us is the main issue I guess.

 

[Jay T]

But Sabbath is always the seventh day, and seventh day, even to Christianity, is Saturday and not Sunday, is it that hard to understand?=O

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[thessalonian]

It's my understanding that Constantine had leanings toward Christianity AND Mithraism. He therefore incorporated the two religions and, wallah, along came Sunday and out went the Sabbath.

Do you ever read the Early Church Fathers?

On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation: because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the lace of the dead and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week He will appear at last with the angels of heaven." Teaching of the Apostles, 2 (A.D. 225).

"On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews, which Christ Himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, says by His prophets that 'His soul hateth;' which Sabbath He in His body abolished." Victorinus, On the Creation of the World (A.D. 300).

If you will note these were all prior to constantine. Your Mithra theory serves your purposes but there is no evidence before constantine that the Sabbath was observed and the evidence is that Sunday, The Lord's Day, was the day of rest on which services were held as in Acts 20. If
Constantine decreed it where is the decree from him? If Constantine decreed it why was Sunday observed throughout the WORLD so quickly without any dispute from ANYONE!

 

[thessalonian]

What Constantine believed about Mithra was immaterial as Christianity observed Sunday LONG BEFORE CONSTANTINE. That's a fact.

The Letter of Barnabas


"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).



"And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the DAY CALLED SUNDAY, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place (Church), and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read (Epistles and Gospel readings in Church), as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things (Sermon). Then we all rise together and pray (Liturgy), and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and WINE AND WATER are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability (Priestly prayer of Holy Eucharist), and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each (Holy Communion), and a participation of that over which thanks have been given (Consecrated Host), and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit (free will gifts); and what is collected is deposited with the president (Bishop/priest), who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. BUT SUNDAY is the day on which we all hold our common assembly (Church), because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." Justin Martyr, AD 150

 

[unred typo]

So rest on the seventh day (Friday evening till Saturday evening) and go to church on Sunday. 8-) I always felt going to church was work anyways since it‘s too hard to rest between standing for hymns and sitting for songs or sermons and too rude to snore when the pastor is preaching. :wink:

 

[Vic C.]

So rest on the seventh day (Friday evening till Saturday evening) and go to church on Sunday. 8-) I always felt going to church was work anyways since it‘s too hard to rest between standing for hymns and sitting for songs or sermons and too rude to snore when the pastor is preaching. :wink:

There you go! lol Except for the snoring part. :smt018