Safe place for Christians in the final days...

[amanjourney]

Hello all.

I've been reading a lot lately about prophecy and the events in the end times (which I believe we are within). I've found many different points of view and various interpretations of things to come, but I've not been able to find any information on the following; Where are Christians to flee or take refuge in the end times?

Scripture tells us to head for hills and caves and to not go back for anything. Are we to hide underground? Are we to flee the United States (which I believe will be a place of great destruction in the final days)?

Ultimately, I feel that God will protect those who seek Him. Selfishly, I hope and pray that I am one He will have mercy on, leading me to a safe place that I may take my family and friends.

I appreciate the coming replies. May God bless everyone who participates in the discussions on this forum, as long as it brings Him glory.

Tim

 

[John]

I am already in the hills and caves In the Canadian Rockies. Do i win?

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by amanjourney
Scripture tells us to head for hills and caves and to not go back for anything. Are we to hide underground? Are we to flee the United States (which I believe will be a place of great destruction in the final days)?

I believe in the "bloom where you are planted" philosophy. If you are following God's ways to the best of your ability, then I believe you are probably where you are because God wants you there for a reason. On the other hand, I live in New York, and I'm not sure this would be considered ideal real estate when those trumpet judgments begin. Unlike Lot, I don't think I'm going to wait for two angels to get me outta here

.




PS - is "aman" what I think it is? Did you see my user name and signature?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hello all.

I've been reading a lot lately about prophecy and the events in the end times (which I believe we are within). I've found many different points of view and various interpretations of things to come, but I've not been able to find any information on the following; Where are Christians to flee or take refuge in the end times?

Scripture tells us to head for hills and caves and to not go back for anything. Are we to hide underground? Are we to flee the United States (which I believe will be a place of great destruction in the final days)?

Ultimately, I feel that God will protect those who seek Him. Selfishly, I hope and pray that I am one He will have mercy on, leading me to a safe place that I may take my family and friends.

I appreciate the coming replies. May God bless everyone who participates in the discussions on this forum, as long as it brings Him glory.

Tim

Mt 24;16
Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains.
This is written for those in Judea.Not those in the US.
If you dont live in Judea,why worry about it?
Much of the things written about the middle east are misunderstood.There is but one city mentioned in scripture where the beast is.That city is Jerusalem.

 

[Cornelius]

Personally I would get out of the big cities and coastal cities round about now.

But on the other hand, God can tell you to stay there too. In these times many will do things out of fear and land themselves in the wrong place. Pray and ask.

The safe place is actually to stay in the Word. To trust the promises, like Psalm 91. Christ is the Word, is the safe and secret place of the Most High.Psa 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

So : if you are NOT in the secret place...................worry.

 

[Matthew24:34]

WE were not told to flee. Jesus' disciples standing right there with Him (and by logical extension, all those of that "THIS generation") were told to flee. When?

Jesus said directly to those disciples standing right there with Him, "When YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet . . . !"

Matthew24:34

 

[guysmith]

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Isaiah 31:4
This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor so the LORD Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Isaiah 35:10
and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Isaiah 52:8
Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices; together they shout for joy. When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes.

Jeremiah 4:6
Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction."

Joel 3:16
The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance.

 

[Cornelius]

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Isaiah 31:4
This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor so the LORD Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Isaiah 35:10
and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Isaiah 52:8
Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices; together they shout for joy. When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes.

Jeremiah 4:6
Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction."

Joel 3:16
The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance.

The true Mt Zion today is where God rules. His Kingdom. That would be ........in Christ.

Those who look to a heap of dirt will be sadly disappointed, because we are now entering into the time of the spiritual fulfillment of these scriptures.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Isaiah 31:4
This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor so the LORD Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Isaiah 35:10
and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Isaiah 52:8
Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices; together they shout for joy. When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes.

Jeremiah 4:6
Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction."

Joel 3:16
The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance.

What are the contexts of all of those verses, guysmith? Are you certain that they say what you appear to think they say? What is the time frame for each of them? Do you know? Thanks.

Matthew24:34

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Matthew24:34

[quote:18qrwl7a]guysmith wrote:
Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Isaiah 31:4
This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor so the LORD Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Isaiah 35:10
and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Isaiah 52:8
Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices; together they shout for joy. When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes.

Jeremiah 4:6
Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction."

Joel 3:16
The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Obadiah 1:17
But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance.

What are the contexts of all of those verses, guysmith? Are you certain that they say what you appear to think they say? What is the time frame for each of them? Do you know? Thanks.[/quote:18qrwl7a]



Do you know Matthew? Enlighten us. Why don’t you begin with the last one first; Obadiah 1:17. I'll post a few more verses to get you started:

Obadiah 1:15 “For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

19 And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead.

20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.â€Â

OK, the ball's in your court.

 

[guysmith]

Matthew24:34,

You stated: What are the contexts of all of those verses, guysmith?

My response: The subject matter of this thread is :Safe place for Christinas in the final days... These verses address that subject matter.

You stated: Are you certain that they say what you appear to think they say?

My response: Yes. You will notice that I made no comments and allowed the verses to speak for themselves.

You stated: What is the time frame for each of them? Do you know? Thanks.

My response: These are all endtime,yet to be fulfilled prophecies.

Concerning: Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Joel 2: 31 establishes Joel 2:32 as future event, culminating with the Day of the LORD.

Joel 2: 31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Concerning: Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Jerusalem has never been protected by “a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night;†making this passage future prophecy.

Concerning: Isaiah 31:4This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor so the LORD Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Christ has yet to do battle for Mount Zion, making this future prophecy.

Concerning: Isaiah 35:10 and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

It could be said that this happened in 1948, however, one has to ask if “everlasting joy†has yet to happen? If the answer is no, then this is future prophecy.

Concerning: Isaiah 52:8Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices; together they shout for joy. When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes.

The Lord has yet to “return†to Zion, making this future prophecy.

Concerning: Jeremiah 4:6Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction."

When has Jerusalem successfully thwarted a fortress siege? It fell, in the past, to King Nebuchadnezzar and the Romans, making this future prophecy.

Concerning: Joel 3:16 The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Again, Christ has yet to personally protect Jerusalem, making this future prophecy.

Concerning Obadiah 1:17But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance.

Verse 15 establishes this passage as taking place around “the day of the LORD†which is future prophecy

Obadiah 1:15 “For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.


Do these prophecies make sense to you?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Sinthesis]

Guy Smith,

Do you see any of the OT apocalyptic prophecies as being fulfilled or are they all in the future?

Do you believe there is only one "day of the LORD"?

 

[guysmith]

Hello Sinthesis,

You stated: Do you see any of the OT apocalyptic prophecies as being fulfilled or are they all in the future?

My response: The OT and NT apocalyptic prophecies are all future.

You stated: Do you believe there is only one "day of the LORD"?

My response: Of the seven year tribulation period that remains to be fulfilled, there is but one day that is dedicated to "the day of the LORD." My understanding is that the day that Christ returns and sets foot on the mount of Olives, is recognized as "the day of the LORD." I believe that Christ will return and set foot on the mount of olive only one time. In that respect, there is but one "day of the LORD."

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Jon-Marc]

The safest place I know of for anyone to be at any time is "in Christ." I am safe and secure.

 

[Sinthesis]

The safest place I know of for anyone to be at any time is "in Christ." I am safe and secure.

Wonderful answer!

 

[amanjourney]

Excellent debate and thanks to everyone who's participated.

If we are to take the Bible literally, which I believe we must do, then we understand that we will be safe if we take refuge in caves in Israel, the Holy land. See Revelation 6:15. Then, Revelation 7:9. Note that Revelation 7:9 is not only referring to the 144,000, because the writer states "...there were so many that no one could count them." It is not written that only 144,000 stood at the throne.

See Revelation 7:13 where the question is asked; "Who are these dressed in white robes?" the ones standing in front of the throne. Now read Revelation 7:14-17 which describes all of those who stand at the throne of The Lamb. Revelation (nor any other book of the Bible) references any others who are protected from the destruction to come.

I've felt for quite some time, and even more so recently with the readings and prayer that I've had with God that Israel will be the only safe place on Earth once the final Seals are opened and the trumpets begin to sound.
hills near
Seems crazy, I know. But there is more "proof" and other opinions that back up my thinking. Search for a person named Tim McHyde for example. He has quite a large and informational website.

Anyway, I agree that we must be "with Christ" and "in God" in order to move forward in this world, as many others in this forum have stated. But, prophecy is only helpful to those who understand and heed it. Foolish are those who believe that they will be saved only because they think God will supernaturally protect them, no matter where they are at the time of destruction.

As for me and my family (who live in Arizona presently), we will most likely be in Israel, heading for the hills near Mount Zion as the Bible instructs us to, if we want to survive the tribulation.

God bless.

 

[Cornelius]

If we are to take the Bible literally, which I believe we must do, then we understand that we will be safe if we take refuge in caves in Israel, the Holy land.



God bless.

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Literal interpretation is wrong, because the Old Testament is written as a shadow, an example of things to come.

Foolish are those who believe that they will be saved only because they think God will supernaturally protect them, no matter where they are at the time of destruction.

Forgive me, but your statement is in the flesh and has no connection to the God of the Bible. Your words are purely the opinion of a man and has not roots in the truth of the Word.It goes against every teaching of the Word about God's protection.

As for me and my family (who live in Arizona presently), we will most likely be in Israel, heading for the hills near Mount Zion as the Bible instructs us to, if we want to survive the tribulation.

You are taking your family to their destruction.No hill will protect you, no cave will hide you. Zion means the Kingdom of God.(not a heap of dirt in a small Middle Eastern country) Jerusalem means the Bride (not a heap of old stones) (read Revelation) and only those who are behind the walls (meaning holy living) will be safe.

I fear for the people of God. Truly I do. Many , many Christians are going to die very soon. Most are sleeping and many more are in denial (so what's new) as usual.

I really pray that you will take this to the Lord, because the time is upon us. Soon you will have to make a decision and that will ultimately be your future and eternity.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Excellent debate and thanks to everyone who's participated.

If we are to take the Bible literally, which I believe we must do, then we understand that we will be safe if we take refuge in caves in Israel, the Holy land. See Revelation 6:15. Then, Revelation 7:9. Note that Revelation 7:9 is not only referring to the 144,000, because the writer states "...there were so many that no one could count them." It is not written that only 144,000 stood at the throne.

God bless.

Rev 6;15-16
And the kings of the earth,and the great men,and the rich men,and the chief captains,and every mighty men,and every bondmen,and every free man,hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us,and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne,and from the wrath of the Lamb.

Ok assuming this is speaking of yourself as you say.What sin or abomination will you commit that you feel the need to hide from the Lord?Since you want to visit the seat of the beast,will you take his mark like all these free and bondmen?
Rev 13;16
And he causeth all,both small and great,rich and poor,free and bond,to recieve a mark in thier right hand,or in thier foreheads;
Adam would tell you.If your hiding then youve done something wrong.

 

[guysmith]

Hello Tim,

You stated: If we are to take the Bible literally, which I believe we must do, then we understand that we will be safe if we take refuge in caves in Israel, the Holy land. See Revelation 6:15. Then, Revelation 7:9. Note that Revelation 7:9 is not only referring to the 144,000, because the writer states "...there were so many that no one could count them." It is not written that only 144,000 stood at the throne.

My response: There are two issues here. One is spiritual salvation and the other is physical safety. The number that no one could count are those that will receive spiritual salvation. The 144,000 are the male count of those that will be physically alive at Christ's advent.

You stated: As for me and my family (who live in Arizona presently), we will most likely be in Israel, heading for the hills near Mount Zion as the Bible instructs us to, if we want to survive the tribulation.

My response: Israel is the place, specifically Mount Zion as the scriptures foretell. BTW, how and when did you come this conclusion?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Cornelius]

Hello Tim,

You stated: As for me and my family (who live in Arizona presently), we will most likely be in Israel, heading for the hills near Mount Zion as the Bible instructs us to, if we want to survive the tribulation.

My response: Israel is the place, specifically Mount Zion as the scriptures foretell. BTW, how and when did you come this conclusion?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

I have walked those hills and believe me you are going to need a lot of toilets and tents. Oh and vacuum a lot of food , enough for seven years and there is not a drop of water. You should go early, because there will be millions of people putting up tents. (not many caves) I don't think there is a hotel there,but if there is, it will be full. Seven years is a long time.
C