Shilohsfoal
Member
- Mar 2, 2009
- 3,460
- 107
Im inclined to believe the caves mentioned in rev where people are hiding are bomb shelters.
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
-
-
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
Hello C,
You stated: I have walked those hills and believe me you are going to need a lot of toilets and tents. Oh and vacuum a lot of food , enough for seven years and there is not a drop of water. You should go early, because there will be millions of people putting up tents. (not many caves) I don't think there is a hotel there,but if there is, it will be full. Seven years is a long time.
My response: It is not going to neccessarily be a pleasant experience. I have often thought about how unpleasant it was inside Noah's ark. But what was the alternative? BTW, the area is within the walls of the old city. And it is only 3 1/2 years.
As far as food goes, there is the promise that the survivors will be protected and fed.
Revelation 12:6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
C, think about this. If you are correct, then we will have been martyred there. As it is, if we stay where we are, we will be martyred for sure. I have provided scriptures which state that Mount Zion has be designated a place-of-safety. If I am correct, don't you think it is worth a try?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
You stated: I have walked those hills and believe me you are going to need a lot of toilets and tents. Oh and vacuum a lot of food , enough for seven years and there is not a drop of water. You should go early, because there will be millions of people putting up tents. (not many caves) I don't think there is a hotel there,but if there is, it will be full. Seven years is a long time.
My response: It is not going to neccessarily be a pleasant experience. I have often thought about how unpleasant it was inside Noah's ark. But what was the alternative? BTW, the area is within the walls of the old city. And it is only 3 1/2 years.
As far as food goes, there is the promise that the survivors will be protected and fed.
Revelation 12:6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
C, think about this. If you are correct, then we will have been martyred there. As it is, if we stay where we are, we will be martyred for sure. I have provided scriptures which state that Mount Zion has be designated a place-of-safety. If I am correct, don't you think it is worth a try?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
guysmith said:
No Guy, its not worth a try brother.
The tribulation is not meant to be hard on true Christians.I know what the worldly church is teaching about it, but they are wrong. For those who are sanctified and living in Christ, there is no fear. Why should there be? Even if we are martyred, they cannot take your soul away and you are still safe in the Lord. What is terrible about loosing your physical life? Nothing. You will be with the Lord.
The Bible is not talking about physical Israel anymore, when it comes to Christians. Its a "shadow" that you must learn from.
Jerusalem = The bride (all those who are holy and sactified)
Mt Zion is "code" for the Kingdom of God. (That is why its safe for Christians to be on "Mt Zion" because the devil cannot get to you in the Kingdom, even during the tribulation )
"Israel" is a code for "all the people of God"
You will see that there are many "cities" outside of "Jerusalem" They represent Christians who are not sanctified and not "on Mt Zion" (they will be persecuted and martyred.) Those "in Jerusalem" is safe and "will be alive and remain until the coming of the Lord"
You have to learn to read the "pictures" in the Bible and not just what it says in the letter.You have to read the spirit of the letters. The letters bring death and the spirit of those same letters bring life.
2Co 3:6 ......... for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Shilohsfoal
Member
- Mar 2, 2009
- 3,460
- 107
Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let them which are in the midst of it depart out.and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck in those days.For there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.
Let me get this right.There are people on this board who believe they should enter Judea when they are told not to so they can be saved from the wrath that is written to take place there.People.Do you really want to travel around the world so you can be a part of what you say you are fleeing from?
What makes you think you can even enter Judea during this time?
If your not jewish and you dont deny Christ then will the antichrist regime that controlls it let you in during this time of the vengeance against that regime and those people?
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let them which are in the midst of it depart out.and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck in those days.For there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.
Let me get this right.There are people on this board who believe they should enter Judea when they are told not to so they can be saved from the wrath that is written to take place there.People.Do you really want to travel around the world so you can be a part of what you say you are fleeing from?
What makes you think you can even enter Judea during this time?
If your not jewish and you dont deny Christ then will the antichrist regime that controlls it let you in during this time of the vengeance against that regime and those people?
Shilohsfoal
Member
- Mar 2, 2009
- 3,460
- 107
Fixed it for you.Dont want anyone to get confused between the bride and the whore.
Thank you.
The "old" Jerusalem, is just a unholy city at the moment. There is nothing there of God and of His people. Its all about the "New".
So when we read the prophecies about Jerusalem, they are about the "New" and not the "old".
There is nothing in physical Israel anymore. But spiritual Israel is alive and well and populated by all the true people of God.
The "old" Jerusalem, is just a unholy city at the moment. There is nothing there of God and of His people. Its all about the "New".
So when we read the prophecies about Jerusalem, they are about the "New" and not the "old".
There is nothing in physical Israel anymore. But spiritual Israel is alive and well and populated by all the true people of God.
O
Osgiliath
Guest
- Thread starter
- #28
Ha, that’s pretty cool. Never noticed that before, even though like you say, it’s just a neat coincidence. I like those tunes. Actually, that whole album was really good. The singer, Bruce Dickenson seems like a really nice guy in interviews. I wonder why he always wore those outback Crocodile Dundee outfits.
A
amanjourney
Guest
- Thread starter
- #29
To Cornelius;
I have a difficult time with your comments. Your messages come across as sarcastic and unenlightening. With regard to your comment about the tribulation not being difficult for Christians, well, all I can respond to that is, I wish you were correct. There is nothing in the bible, anywhere, that leads anyone to believe that the "end times" will be anything but difficult for all. Yes, I believe God will protect His children/chosen, but even for us, it will be chaotic and traumatic. If you can, please show me one Scripture where it states clearly that those who follow Christ will be spared all pain, all loss, all horror during the trib. I think we all respect the views shared by each other in this forum, but sarcasm and belittling should have no place here.
Your statement "Forgive me, but your statement is in the flesh and has no connection to the God of the Bible. Your words are purely the opinion of a man and has not roots in the truth of the Word.It goes against every teaching of the Word about God's protection." is insulting. Unless you are a Prophet, your words too are purely the opinion of a man. Rather than state that you disagree, you condemn.
Please read Proverb 22:3 & 27:12 - "A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it." This is the Word of God through Scripture, do you disagree? God instructs us to be prudent and look for danger coming and encourages us to take cover, does He not? Don't be offended, but I choose to believe the Words of my Father over yours.
Your comment "The tribulation is not meant to be hard on true Christians.I know what the worldly church is teaching about it, but they are wrong. For those who are sanctified and living in Christ, there is no fear. Why should there be? Even if we are martyred, they cannot take your soul away and you are still safe in the Lord. What is terrible about loosing your physical life? Nothing." will likely bring great discomfort and disappointment for you. Forgive me, but that's an ignorant statement. Read Luke 21:34-36 - "Be on your guard, so that your minds are not dulled from carousing, drunkeness and worries of life, or that day will come on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come on all who live on the face of the earth." All to me, means all. If it read "...for it will come on all non-believers..." you may have a point...
To Guysmith;
I've come to believe that Israel and Mt. Zion are places where Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation because of my readings of Scripture (Joel 2:32, Revelation 14:1-5, Leviticus 23, Acts 2) and also the provocative book written by Tim McHyde which corroborates my understanding.
Your comment "C, think about this. If you are correct, then we will have been martyred there. As it is, if we stay where we are, we will be martyred for sure. I have provided scriptures which state that Mount Zion has be designated a place-of-safety. If I am correct, don't you think it is worth a try?" is open minded and stimulates a healthy debate. From what I understood when "joining" this forum, that is why we all participate. However, C's response "No Guy, its not worth a try brother." gives insight as to the closedmindedness of others...
Peace
I have a difficult time with your comments. Your messages come across as sarcastic and unenlightening. With regard to your comment about the tribulation not being difficult for Christians, well, all I can respond to that is, I wish you were correct. There is nothing in the bible, anywhere, that leads anyone to believe that the "end times" will be anything but difficult for all. Yes, I believe God will protect His children/chosen, but even for us, it will be chaotic and traumatic. If you can, please show me one Scripture where it states clearly that those who follow Christ will be spared all pain, all loss, all horror during the trib. I think we all respect the views shared by each other in this forum, but sarcasm and belittling should have no place here.
Your statement "Forgive me, but your statement is in the flesh and has no connection to the God of the Bible. Your words are purely the opinion of a man and has not roots in the truth of the Word.It goes against every teaching of the Word about God's protection." is insulting. Unless you are a Prophet, your words too are purely the opinion of a man. Rather than state that you disagree, you condemn.
Please read Proverb 22:3 & 27:12 - "A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it." This is the Word of God through Scripture, do you disagree? God instructs us to be prudent and look for danger coming and encourages us to take cover, does He not? Don't be offended, but I choose to believe the Words of my Father over yours.
Your comment "The tribulation is not meant to be hard on true Christians.I know what the worldly church is teaching about it, but they are wrong. For those who are sanctified and living in Christ, there is no fear. Why should there be? Even if we are martyred, they cannot take your soul away and you are still safe in the Lord. What is terrible about loosing your physical life? Nothing." will likely bring great discomfort and disappointment for you. Forgive me, but that's an ignorant statement. Read Luke 21:34-36 - "Be on your guard, so that your minds are not dulled from carousing, drunkeness and worries of life, or that day will come on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come on all who live on the face of the earth." All to me, means all. If it read "...for it will come on all non-believers..." you may have a point...
To Guysmith;
I've come to believe that Israel and Mt. Zion are places where Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation because of my readings of Scripture (Joel 2:32, Revelation 14:1-5, Leviticus 23, Acts 2) and also the provocative book written by Tim McHyde which corroborates my understanding.
Your comment "C, think about this. If you are correct, then we will have been martyred there. As it is, if we stay where we are, we will be martyred for sure. I have provided scriptures which state that Mount Zion has be designated a place-of-safety. If I am correct, don't you think it is worth a try?" is open minded and stimulates a healthy debate. From what I understood when "joining" this forum, that is why we all participate. However, C's response "No Guy, its not worth a try brother." gives insight as to the closedmindedness of others...
Peace
sheshisown
Member
- May 25, 2008
- 1,364
- 0
Tiny voice for Pre-Trib
The safest place for any Christian during the Tribulation will be in heaven... :D
No harm meant, just a little slip of my witness. :D
Carry on...
The safest place for any Christian during the Tribulation will be in heaven... :D
No harm meant, just a little slip of my witness. :D
Carry on...
Rev 13
For the longest, I've been dealing with this situation, afraid of being persecuted. I tried asking myself where to go and hide, but then I came to my final realization. If I shall go into captivity, then I won't fight it. I'm not going to hide simply because that Beast doesn't put fear in my heart anymore. I will stand and give knowledge to the foolish and the unknown until I am killed or other wise. Theres no sense in me running when I have work to do.
For the longest, I've been dealing with this situation, afraid of being persecuted. I tried asking myself where to go and hide, but then I came to my final realization. If I shall go into captivity, then I won't fight it. I'm not going to hide simply because that Beast doesn't put fear in my heart anymore. I will stand and give knowledge to the foolish and the unknown until I am killed or other wise. Theres no sense in me running when I have work to do.
Hello ZeroLink,
You stated: For the longest, I've been dealing with this situation, afraid of being persecuted. I tried asking myself where to go and hide, but then I came to my final realization. If I shall go into captivity, then I won't fight it. I'm not going to hide simply because that Beast doesn't put fear in my heart anymore. I will stand and give knowledge to the foolish and the unknown until I am killed or other wise. Theres no sense in me running when I have work to do.
My response: Yes, there is work to do, however, a flood is coming and(don't let anyone fool you) God has provided a place-of-safety for those who watch.
Luke 21:36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
You stated: For the longest, I've been dealing with this situation, afraid of being persecuted. I tried asking myself where to go and hide, but then I came to my final realization. If I shall go into captivity, then I won't fight it. I'm not going to hide simply because that Beast doesn't put fear in my heart anymore. I will stand and give knowledge to the foolish and the unknown until I am killed or other wise. Theres no sense in me running when I have work to do.
My response: Yes, there is work to do, however, a flood is coming and(don't let anyone fool you) God has provided a place-of-safety for those who watch.
Luke 21:36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
I tend to side with Cornelius and the Spirit found in His words, Jesus told us that He would give us peace, not as the world gives but as He gives.
So whatever happens in the world we must have Sabbath peace a restful peace in the Spirit.
I know God is large and in charge. Having said that I bought natural seeds recently. By land and seeds people, if not for now, later, there is a famine going on and will come to North America.
Buy a few more canned goods when you grocery shop and extra water. Stock up during the next 7 years while the harvest is plenty now...
Thus says the Lord...
So whatever happens in the world we must have Sabbath peace a restful peace in the Spirit.
I know God is large and in charge. Having said that I bought natural seeds recently. By land and seeds people, if not for now, later, there is a famine going on and will come to North America.
Buy a few more canned goods when you grocery shop and extra water. Stock up during the next 7 years while the harvest is plenty now...
Thus says the Lord...
Here is my safe place, I am already there and resting with no fear at all, I am in a fortress :
Psa 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place (Christ is the secret place of God: The Word )of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2 I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3 For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence. (Safe from biological warfare )
Psa 91:4 He will cover thee with his pinions, And under his wings shalt thou take refuge: His truth is a shield and a buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night, Nor for the arrow that flieth by day; (Ah, no missile will get me
)
Psa 91:6 For the pestilence that walketh in darkness, Nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, And ten thousand at thy right hand; But it shall not come nigh thee. (Good, safe even though thousands will die to my left and right)
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold, And see the reward of the wicked. (Good news, only the wicked will receive their reward. Luckily I am in Christ and holy within Him )
Psa 91:9 For thou, O Jehovah, art my refuge! Thou hast made the Most High thy habitation; (Not a cave )
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, Neither shall any plague come nigh thy tent.(Good, so THERE, in Christ, no evil shall befall me. Relief, I do not have to pack a tent and get out of my country, I am already in Christ ! )
Psa 91:11 For he will give his angels charge over thee, To keep thee in all thy ways. (Good, so now I have angels too and ALL my ways are protected ! )
Psa 91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, Lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Psa 91:13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: The young lion and the serpent shalt thou trample under foot.
Psa 91:14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. (Name means: Nature , character and authority. I practice that every day )
Psa 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble: I will deliver him, and honor him. (Man, its getting better and better !! )
Psa 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, ( Ha, what good news: with LOOOOOOONG life God will satisfy me ) And show him my salvation. (Praise God man, what an awesome God we serve. Protection, protection, protection.)
Psa 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place (Christ is the secret place of God: The Word )of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2 I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3 For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence. (Safe from biological warfare )
Psa 91:4 He will cover thee with his pinions, And under his wings shalt thou take refuge: His truth is a shield and a buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night, Nor for the arrow that flieth by day; (Ah, no missile will get me
) Psa 91:6 For the pestilence that walketh in darkness, Nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, And ten thousand at thy right hand; But it shall not come nigh thee. (Good, safe even though thousands will die to my left and right)
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold, And see the reward of the wicked. (Good news, only the wicked will receive their reward. Luckily I am in Christ and holy within Him )
Psa 91:9 For thou, O Jehovah, art my refuge! Thou hast made the Most High thy habitation; (Not a cave )
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, Neither shall any plague come nigh thy tent.(Good, so THERE, in Christ, no evil shall befall me. Relief, I do not have to pack a tent and get out of my country, I am already in Christ ! )
Psa 91:11 For he will give his angels charge over thee, To keep thee in all thy ways. (Good, so now I have angels too and ALL my ways are protected ! )
Psa 91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, Lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Psa 91:13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: The young lion and the serpent shalt thou trample under foot.
Psa 91:14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. (Name means: Nature , character and authority. I practice that every day )
Psa 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble: I will deliver him, and honor him. (Man, its getting better and better !! )
Psa 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, ( Ha, what good news: with LOOOOOOONG life God will satisfy me ) And show him my salvation. (Praise God man, what an awesome God we serve. Protection, protection, protection.)
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,230
- 4
My favorite Psalm! 
C, check out Adam Clarke's commentary. It is very comprehensive. it shows us what was going in David's head and heart as he wrote it.
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=091
Enjoy.
C, check out Adam Clarke's commentary. It is very comprehensive. it shows us what was going in David's head and heart as he wrote it.
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=091
Enjoy.
ThanksVic C. said:My favorite Psalm!
C, check out Adam Clarke's commentary. It is very comprehensive. it shows us what was going in David's head and heart as he wrote it.
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=091
Enjoy.
M
Matthew24:34
Guest
- Thread starter
- #38
guysmith said:
Misapplication of Luke 21:36! Jesus was speaking to His disciples right there with Him! Why is everything also about us? Here is the CONTEXT. WE are NOT the audience!
Then He spoke to THEM a parable: "Look at the fig tree, and ALL the trees. When they are already budding, YOU see and know for YOURSELVES that summer is now near. So YOU also, when YOU see THESE things happening, [YOU] know that the kingdom of God is NEAR. Assuredly, I say to YOU, THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. But [YOU] take heed to YOURSELVES, lest YOUR hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on YOU unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the earth. [YOU] Watch, therefore, and pray always that YOU may be counted worthy to escape ALL THESE THINGS that are ABOUT TO COME to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
WE are NOT the YE!
Matthew24:34
sheshisown
Member
- May 25, 2008
- 1,364
- 0
Hi Matthew~
For myself, and many other christians this is a future event, that has not yet happened, because if it had many things would be not as they are now... one of those differences is we would BE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION. We are not, therefore this is still to occur. :nod
Look at the fig tree: The fig tree is just one example of a tree that buds before summer; no special reference to Israel seems to be intended (and all the trees). The idea is that when a fig tree buds, there is an inevitable result ~ summer is near, and fruit is coming. In the same way, when these signs are seen, the coming of Jesus in glory, with His church, to this world will inevitably follow. WE ALL know about the seasons ... Jesus expected us to be warned I believe.
The generation that sees those signs will also see the very end. God will not prolong the Great Tribulation forever.
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away: No mere man could truthfully say this. Jesus claims that His words are the very words of God ~ and this teaching is for EVERY BELIEVER.
Jesus warns us, not just the disciples that followed Him then, otherwise would this warning be ONLY for that time?
"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
We must take heed because there are certain things that will make one unprepared ~ carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life. Each of these things can make us unprepared for the day of Jesus’ return. Do you also believe that Christ has already come?
Carousing literally refers to the hangover that comes after a time of intoxication.
Watch therefore; We must watch. Anyone who watches will never be caught in a snare ~ our failure to watch keeps us from being ready. Watch and Pray.
We must pray always, that we may be found worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass. The good news in Jesus is that we don’t have to go through the Tribulation that is coming. He will take as many as are ready before the Tribulation begins. :yes
Regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, which the disciples of Jesus day faced, those who listened to and obeyed Jesus escaped the horrible destruction that came upon the city.
Regarding the far greater destruction that is coming upon the whole earth, those who listen to and obey Jesus can escape the horrible destruction that will come just as these disciples did! :D
An escapee... hidden in Christ. bonnie
For myself, and many other christians this is a future event, that has not yet happened, because if it had many things would be not as they are now... one of those differences is we would BE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION. We are not, therefore this is still to occur. :nod
Look at the fig tree: The fig tree is just one example of a tree that buds before summer; no special reference to Israel seems to be intended (and all the trees). The idea is that when a fig tree buds, there is an inevitable result ~ summer is near, and fruit is coming. In the same way, when these signs are seen, the coming of Jesus in glory, with His church, to this world will inevitably follow. WE ALL know about the seasons ... Jesus expected us to be warned I believe.
The generation that sees those signs will also see the very end. God will not prolong the Great Tribulation forever.
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away: No mere man could truthfully say this. Jesus claims that His words are the very words of God ~ and this teaching is for EVERY BELIEVER.
Jesus warns us, not just the disciples that followed Him then, otherwise would this warning be ONLY for that time?
"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
We must take heed because there are certain things that will make one unprepared ~ carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life. Each of these things can make us unprepared for the day of Jesus’ return. Do you also believe that Christ has already come?
Carousing literally refers to the hangover that comes after a time of intoxication.
Watch therefore; We must watch. Anyone who watches will never be caught in a snare ~ our failure to watch keeps us from being ready. Watch and Pray.
We must pray always, that we may be found worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass. The good news in Jesus is that we don’t have to go through the Tribulation that is coming. He will take as many as are ready before the Tribulation begins. :yes
Regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, which the disciples of Jesus day faced, those who listened to and obeyed Jesus escaped the horrible destruction that came upon the city.
Regarding the far greater destruction that is coming upon the whole earth, those who listen to and obey Jesus can escape the horrible destruction that will come just as these disciples did! :D
An escapee... hidden in Christ. bonnie
M
Matthew24:34
Guest
- Thread starter
- #40
sheshisown said:Hi Matthew~
For myself, and many other christians this is a future event, that has not yet happened, because if it had many things would be not as they are now... one of those differences is we would BE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION. We are not, therefore this is still to occur. :nod
Look at the fig tree: The fig tree is just one example of a tree that buds before summer; no special reference to Israel seems to be intended (and all the trees). The idea is that when a fig tree buds, there is an inevitable result ~ summer is near, and fruit is coming. In the same way, when these signs are seen, the coming of Jesus in glory, with His church, to this world will inevitably follow. WE ALL know about the seasons ... Jesus expected us to be warned I believe.
The generation that sees those signs will also see the very end. God will not prolong the Great Tribulation forever.
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away: No mere man could truthfully say this. Jesus claims that His words are the very words of God ~ and this teaching is for EVERY BELIEVER.
Jesus warns us, not just the disciples that followed Him then, otherwise would this warning be ONLY for that time?
"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
We must take heed because there are certain things that will make one unprepared ~ carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life. Each of these things can make us unprepared for the day of Jesus’ return. Do you also believe that Christ has already come?
Carousing literally refers to the hangover that comes after a time of intoxication.
Watch therefore; We must watch. Anyone who watches will never be caught in a snare ~ our failure to watch keeps us from being ready. Watch and Pray.
We must pray always, that we may be found worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass. The good news in Jesus is that we don’t have to go through the Tribulation that is coming. He will take as many as are ready before the Tribulation begins. :yes
Regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, which the disciples of Jesus day faced, those who listened to and obeyed Jesus escaped the horrible destruction that came upon the city.
Regarding the far greater destruction that is coming upon the whole earth, those who listen to and obey Jesus can escape the horrible destruction that will come just as these disciples did! :D
An escapee... hidden in Christ. bonnie
Greetings, sheshisown: We MUST always consider the CONTEXT of the verses we use! Respectfully, sheshisown, you are assuming that Jesus had a far greater tribulation in mind other than that of A. D. 66-70, so you, then, say it hasn't happened. To whom was Jesus speaking in Matthew 24? What did Jesus mean when he told those very disciples right there with Him that THEY would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet?
Jesus told THEM to watch and be ready. He told THEM that THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer. Furthermore, Jesus ALWAYS, without exception (20 times!), used the expression, "this generation" to refer to His contemporaries! Always!
Did not Jesus tell the Twelve before He sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel (Mat. 10) that THEY would not finish going through the cities of Israel before He came? Did He not tell His disciples right there with Him that some of THEM would not die before He came (Mat. 16:28)? Did He not look right at that flesh-and-blood Caiaphas, the high priest, and the Sanhedrin and tell THEM that THEY would see Him "sitting at the right hand of power and COMING on the clouds of heaven" (Mat. 26:64).
Do we wrongly suppose that the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was not worse than anything that had ever happened or would ever happen again? We must understand this in its context, considering its purpose and those whom it was to involve. That generation of Jews had just received Jesus' woes (Mat. 23). Jesus had just warned them that they, who were guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth, would experience God's wrath and their house (the Temple) would be left unto THEM desolate. The key to understanding the great horrors of the Great Tribulation of that first-century time is that it was a coming of God upon those whom He had once called His people. This was the final straw. The Lord had repeatedly warned them of the consequences of their disobedience, their idolatry, and their adultery against Him. He had sent prophets to them whom they killed! A. D. 70 was the end of the final judgment against that nation. The horrors inflicted upon the Jews from the Romans were horrendous, but they were paled by the unimaginable atrocities the Jews themselves committed against each others within the walls of the surrounded city.
Those disciples to whom Jesus was directly speaking also suffered during that time. THEY were to be killed; THEY were to be hated and persecuted for His name's sake. There were to be pestilences and famines and earthquakes. But all those things were only the beginning. When THEY saw the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, they and all Christians were to flee. According to Josephus not one Christian remained in the city before the Great Tribulation overtook the Jews trapped inside!
We must also understand the biblical use of "heaven and earth." It is often used to symbolize governments and/or those who rule whom rule them. To the Hebrew mind such an expression often referred to their world and their covenant with God during the time of the Law and the Prophets! In Deuteronomy (in the Song of Moses) the "heavens" and the "earth" are addressed as those they are people! "Listen, O heavens . . . hear, O Earth" (Deu. 32:1). Isaiah begins his book the same way (Isa. 1:2a). Whom were they addressing? Did they expect the literal, physical heavens and earth to hear them? In the context of Isaiah 1 (1:2b), we see that this is a reference to Israel who have rebelled against God! The heavens and earth that Jesus predicted would pass away involved the Jewish world and their relationship with God and not the literal heavens and earth! The same is true of the new "heavens and earth" of the New Covenant. This same symbolism is found in Matthew 24:29ff in figurative, apocalyptic, prophetic language there. None of those things was to happen literally just as those things never happened in the OT times when God's coming in judgment against nations and people was described using the same language! Jesus disciples standing right there with Him understood Jesus' figurative language because they listened to it with Jewish ears! It is imperative that we understand the Hebrew mind when we seek to interpret Scripture.
Again, Jesus was speaking to His disciples right there with Him when He told THEM to watch and pray, when He told them that they would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, when He told THEM that THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer.
The generation that saw all of those signs is long gone. It was the generation of Jesus' contemporaries. That is clearly what Jesus always meant when He said "THIS generation."
Sincerely, Matthew24:34