Salvation is by Grace

[mondar]

I have already answered this stupid question sir..God gives His elect faith through grace, they believe by grace..by and through are the same..

SInce you apparently have such penetrating Biblical insight, perhaps you can tell us all who it is that will be awarded eternal as per these statements of Paul in Romans 2:

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous

It appears Paul is adding another requirement to yours....

There is no atonement in the verses you quote in Romans 2. If you can earn and diserve heaven without the atonement of Christ more power to ya. Go ahead and try to keep the whole law, but if you offend in one point, you are guilty of all.

 

[stovebolts]

Again, I am confused why you are so rude and hostile. I tell you, no need to be so hostile, I don't bite.

And I am not hostile..you and others percieve me that way but I am not Just unwavering in my convictions and stance on the gospel..

[quote:546ac]
Does one need to have faith to accept God's grace or is this grace forced upon specific individules?

I have already answered this stupid question sir..God gives His elect faith through grace, they believe by grace..by and through are the same..

acts 18:

27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: [/quote:546ac]

I am sorry that you believe I ask 'stupid' questions of you. However, I will not bend to your unwavering sarcasm as a dog beat into submission. Now then, let us reason according to the grace which we have recieved.

First, I would state that there is a big difference between believing in God and having faith in God.

James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Tell me now, do the demons also believe through grace and thus be saved? (as you said in regard to faith / belief, "by and through are the same..")
I contend that belief and faith are not synonymous.

Moving on,
1 Corinthians 3:9a states (asv)
For we are God's fellow-workers:
Ephesians 2:10 states, (kjv)
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Should denotes choice and I further contend that demons are not fellow workers with God, nor are their works commendable to God, yet they also believe in God. Thus, faith and belief are not synonymous as you infer.

If you would like to take this argument into the realm of humanity, we could look at the son’s of Korah from both a New Testament and an Old Testament perspective as they too ate and drank of the same spiritual food and drink as we do today.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Again,
Through is a primary preposition. Thus, faith is the main means in which grace is transferred. If it were belief, then Paul would have said, For by grace ye are saved through belief, yet this is not what Paul says. Instead, he says faith. Salvation is a gift from God, but we must accept it in faith, not simply belief.

Agian, God offers his grace to all of humanity. Furthermore, God's grace is a universal offering for truly, as it is written;
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John what speaking to those who were already members of the Church. That is to say, "The Elect"...

 

[stovebolts]

Go ahead and try to keep the whole law, but if you offend in one point, you are guilty of all.

Thank goodness that we have a mediator when we sin!

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Drew]

There is no atonement in the verses you quote in Romans 2. If you can earn and diserve heaven without the atonement of Christ more power to ya. Go ahead and try to keep the whole law, but if you offend in one point, you are guilty of all.

I am curious as to why you would think that Paul has to present an entire comprehensive theology in chapter 2 of Romans. In fact, I have heard scholars say that one of the characteristics of Paul is that he tends to write in a "delayed gratification" mode, introducing a topic in one place and dealing with it later.

In the present context, Paul explains in Romans 8 how the atonement allows us to achieve the justification described in Romans 2.

And, of course, it is an obvious misrepresentation for the Calvinist to paint the non-Calvinist as "earning" salvation or not needing the atonement. In all candor, why do you do this? Do you not realize that the counterargument is clear and coherent? The logic is not complex, the arguments are not too difficult. This does not mean that the non-Calvinist position is necessarily correct Scripturally (although I think it is). But there is a clear and conherent account we can give of how it is that we are justified at the end by our works and yet deserve no credit for that. I am frankly mystified at how so many Calvinists construct a strawman and attack it.

 

[unred typo]

quote by Mondar:
There is no atonement in the verses you quote in Romans 2. If you can earn and diserve heaven without the atonement of Christ more power to ya. Go ahead and try to keep the whole law, but if you offend in one point, you are guilty of all.

First, following Christ is not trying to keep the law. Following Christ is walking in faith, believing what he said to do, and actually doing it. You think of this as works of the law, but it’s the works of faith you don’t like to be judged by to attain eternal life. Who told you there would be no works in salvation? Are you hung up by ‘not of works lest any man should boast?’ It’s like I told beloved57:

‘No boasting’ is not the same as ‘no works.’ You still work, you just don’t get to boast about it as if God saved you because he needed your paltry efforts, no matter how great and wonderful they are. Get real. God could create a rock to do what you do.

Romans 2 says we will be judged by our works, it doesn’t say we deserve heaven because of our works. How do you recon your debts? If I give you an hour’s work, would you think I should get a year’s pay? How about if I work 90 years? Would I deserve a million year’s pay, a gold mansion and free room and board in paradise?