Salvation/Works Question...

[Scotth1960]

If salvation is not by works, and we can do nothing to earn our way into God's family, how am I supposed to deal with verses that demand all people to repent and obey Christ's commandments? If we obeyed and repented, we would have something to boast about and we would've earned, or worked our way up the spiritual ladder to God (which is impossible).

Can we therefore conclude that it is impossible to do those things which Chist commands and demands without his will and him first drawing us? (John 6:44) This makes our free will in salvation impossible right?

Dear cosmicutopia,
I gather that the simplest answer to the whole salvation by faith, by faith only, by faith and works, or by faith which worketh through love, is that it is GOD who saves. What man can do, well, without God, man can do nothing (John chapter 15). Christ is the only one who can save. Of course faith is required, but if anything more is needed, such as good works, God will of course in due time make this clear to the new Christian. It's all God's mercy, even if we start doing good works (Ephesians 2:10), after we have first come to Christ "without works" (Ephesians 2:8-9). In Erie PA Scott Harrington
PS Free will is required of God, not impossible. With God all things are possible, that includes the gift of free will, a gift which God gives to every man. We must use our will, God requires of that. God does not say there is no such thing as free will. The simple meaning of John 3:16 will suffice.
To believe in God for being saved requires an act of the will. God saves by grace (predestination) through free will.

 

[Alabaster]

Is faith necessary for salvation? If so, do you consider having faith a "work"? Is "accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" a "work"?

Scripture constantly tells us we must HAVE FAITH. If "having faith" is an act of the will and is NECESSARY for salvation, how can you logically set it apart from all other "acts of righteousness" which you don't consider salvific? Where do you draw the line and why?

Faith is not a work. It is a gift of God. We are to exercise it and build ourselves up in it, and stir it up within us, but works are the natural result of faith in one's life.

 

[Scotth1960]

Faith is not a work. It is a gift of God. We are to exercise it and build ourselves up in it, and stir it up within us, but works are the natural result of faith in one's life.

Dear Alabaster, Faith in God is a free gift of Jesus. But it must be received by free will. God doesn't force people to believe in Him. They must choose whom they will serve. God makes this clear in the Book of Joshua. God sets before us life and death, blessing and cursing, Who shall we serve? "As for me and my house, We shall serve the LORD". God always says to every person, "Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve". God doesn't do the serving for us. He requires faith. Faith doesn't come without free will, whether or not it is also a "work", is just quibbling over semantics. Saving faith will produce good fruit. Works. Ephesians 2:10 follows logically from Ephesians 2:8-9, for we don't come to God initially by works, but when we are further along in Christ, good works will inevitably come. As a "fruit of the Spirit". In Erie PA Scott Harrington Cf. James 2:24.

 

[Alabaster]

Dear Alabaster, Faith in God is a free gift of Jesus. But it must be received by free will. God doesn't force people to believe in Him. They must choose whom they will serve. God makes this clear in the Book of Joshua. God sets before us life and death, blessing and cursing, Who shall we serve? "As for me and my house, We shall serve the LORD". God always says to every person, "Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve". God doesn't do the serving for us. He requires faith. Faith doesn't come without free will, whether or not it is also a "work", is just quibbling over semantics. Saving faith will produce good fruit. Works. Ephesians 2:10 follows logically from Ephesians 2:8-9, for we don't come to God initially by works, but when we are further along in Christ, good works will inevitably come. As a "fruit of the Spirit". In Erie PA Scott Harrington Cf. James 2:24.

When faith first comes, we are not choosing it. Our spiritual eyes are opened and we can suddenly discern the truth. That is faith. Whether we receive Christ by that faith or NOT is a matter for the will. Mostly, that burst of truth COMPELS us to Christ!

Acting on that faith or rejecting Him is of the will.

Yes, our good works are the result of our faith, and our obedience to God when He speaks.

 

[Cornelius]

How can one who is dead make any choices or believe?

The verse means no one can come to Jesus without God's drawing, correct?

Which means, our choice to repent and obey doesn't get us saved, correct?

(I'm just looking for answers here)

No man can "repent and obey" unless its given to him by and through grace. That is the gift ! When you repent (change your mind) and start being obedient, its a sign that God is working in you to will and work according to His good pleasure.Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him Php 2:13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

So if God is not working in us to will, we will not will and we will not do according to His good pleasure. You know that God is working in you, when you produce the fruit that comes when the seed (Word) has been sown into your heart and your heart is the good soil.

Its really all grace . We cannot bring anything to the table that will help save us. But on the other hand, those who are not producing the fruit and works of salvation has not part in it.

Being saved, brings works, but works, do not bring salvation.

That is why we will be judged according to our works ! God will see your salvation manifesting in your works (not the other way around)God;
Rom 2:6 who will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:


We have to stop fighting each other regarding this and rather try to understand why God speaks of salvation through faith and also that works are related to salvation also. But as I have pointed out, its not a contradiction. The works that we will be judged for are the result or "proof" of our salvation.

 

[Cornelius]

That should also clear up this verse. Its not a contradiction at all. James is speaking of that which follows faith. Again , not the other way around ! You will read a lot of confusing opinions from people who do not know that faith indeed results in works ! No works means there was no real faith in the beginning. but when works shows up, it shows that there was faith in the beginning and there is still faith now.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

So James is not speaking about works here that people think will save them. No, James is speaking of the works that follow faith. The same works that Paul wrote about in Romans ; those works for which God will judge mankind. Either to salvation or damnation.

 

[Scotth1960]

S:

Works are as a result of faith. In fact, the Lord Jesus said, 'By their fruits ye shall know them'.

But this is very different from thinking our good works will somehow earn us favor with God, from the perspective of the believer's salvation.

Dear farouk, True, works are a result of faith. But they do not earn merit for us. They are required by God's grace, as grace is not a license to remain in bad works, in dead works, in sins. We must repent before God by faith (Eph. 2:8-9) and then by good works (Eph. 2:10). It comes from "faith which worketh through love" (Gal. 5:6), because love is greater than faith (1 Cor. 13:13). We must love God and love neighbor in order to be saved, not just believing by "faith alone" (cf. James 2:24); faith with works is dead (James); if we love Christ, we shall keep His commandments (that is His word in the Gospel). In Erie PA Scott H.