San Jose Pentecostal church conducts exorcism ritual on 3-year-old, leading to death

[Hidden In Him]

you do realize the Bible talks about the "offense" of the gospel? Sometimes truth will offend people. That is because most people cannot agree on things and a lot of people are very close-minded.

Galatians 4:16.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Galatians 4:16.

Yes I have that verse in my signature. The truth is an offensive thing. Speaking it can make enemies. That does not negate our freedom and responsibility to say it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes I have that verse in my signature.

That's why I quoted it. It was a poke, LoL.

The difference in our religious views (and in fact in our religions) is this: Yes, the truth can sometimes be offensive, only in Christianity it is never intended to be. According to the tenets of the Satanic Temple, however, the truth not only can be offensive, but making it so deliberately is entirely consistent with the religion. This raises serious questions in my mind as to intent.

 

[T. E. Smith]

That's why I quoted it. It was a poke, LoL.

The difference in our religious views (and in fact in our religions) is this: Yes, the truth can sometimes be offensive, only in Christianity it is never intended to be. According to the tenets of the Satanic Temple, however, the truth not only can be offensive, but making it so deliberately is entirely consistent with the religion. This raises serious questions in my mind as to intent.

Why is deliberately making it so a part of the religion? That is, why do you think it is? Because I don't see that
All TST says is that we have the freedom to offend. If the gospel is offensive, and Christians are free to share it, then Christians are free to share what is offensive. This is a fundamental part of free speech. Some people think we shouldn't have the freedom to say anything that could be offensive. But that kills free speech.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This raises serious questions in my mind as to intent.

I should say intent, as well as the inherent character of the message itself.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I should say intent, as well as the inherent character of the message itself.

well, I'm sure you wouldn't like the message of Satanism, lol. It's basically just self-autonomy, liberation from authoritarianism both human and divine, and living a life driven by reason and science and devoted to bringing good to others and pursuing self-fulfillment.

 

[jasonc]

What could possibly go wrong with that ?!

 

[Hidden In Him]

well, I'm sure you wouldn't like the message of Satanism, lol. It's basically just self-autonomy, liberation from authoritarianism both human and divine, and living a life driven by reason and science and devoted to bringing good to others and pursuing self-fulfillment.

And defending the right to offend people.

T.E., my simple point is this: There is no teaching in Christianity that reserves or defends the right to offend others. The scriptures teach preaching the gospel, but never in defense of offending people with it whether they like it or not. In fact, the scriptures are filled with numerous exhortations to wait for a time when it might be easily entreated and more readily received in a Spirit of peace. But this is clearly not the tenor of the message put forth by the Satanic Temple. They defend the right to offend, which is an inherently different message, and in fact displays an inherently different spirit behind it.

Granted, you will likely think it's a small thing, and that I am making too much out of it, but this is what I would call "a tell." It reveals the difference of intent between the two opposing religions, and thus the Spirit that inspired each.

 

[T. E. Smith]

And defending the right to offend people.

T.E., my simple point is this: There is no teaching in Christianity that reserves or defends the right to offend others. The scriptures teach preaching the gospel, but never in defense of offending people with it whether they like it or not. In fact, the scriptures are filled with numerous exhortations to wait for a time when it might be easily entreated and more readily received in a Spirit of peace. But this is clearly not the tenor of the message put forth by the Satanic Temple. They defend the right to offend, which is an inherently different message, and in fact displays an inherently different spirit behind it.

Granted, you will likely think it's a small thing, and that I am making too much out of it, but this is what I would call "a tell." It reveals the difference of intent between the two opposing religions, and thus the Spirit that inspired each.

I assume the Spirit that inspired Satanism is Satan himself? I think that your bias is causing you to see something that is not there. The Satanic Temple does not encourage offense any more than will naturally happen in a country with free speech. Period.

 

[T. E. Smith]

What could possibly go wrong with that ?!

And what could possibly go wrong with having your entire life driven by the words claimed to be from a god?

 

[T. E. Smith]

And defending the right to offend people.

T.E., my simple point is this: There is no teaching in Christianity that reserves or defends the right to offend others. The scriptures teach preaching the gospel, but never in defense of offending people with it whether they like it or not. In fact, the scriptures are filled with numerous exhortations to wait for a time when it might be easily entreated and more readily received in a Spirit of peace. But this is clearly not the tenor of the message put forth by the Satanic Temple. They defend the right to offend, which is an inherently different message, and in fact displays an inherently different spirit behind it.

Granted, you will likely think it's a small thing, and that I am making too much out of it, but this is what I would call "a tell." It reveals the difference of intent between the two opposing religions, and thus the Spirit that inspired each.

and yes, the right to offend people, that is, the right to free speech. It is the authoritarian who forbids a right to speech that offends.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I assume the Spirit that inspired Satanism is Satan himself? I think that your bias is causing you to see something that is not there.

This takes us back to the particular version of Satanism you are subscribing to, as I was referring to in Post #80. You may argue that theistic Satanism does not exist, but there are numerous testimonies to he contrary.

Since it is buried under several pages now, I will quote it again for one - one among many excerpts I could quote on what the practices of real Satanism are, and how they know far better then to think their god does not exist, based on experience, not mere theory.

You never commented. Am I to assume you believe the following testimony was based on a bias that was not there?

The meeting was held in a very large isolated barn which had been roughly remodeled for the purpose. I suppose that there were a couple thousand people there from the whole surrounding area... the victim was dragged kicking and screaming through the side door and up unto the stage. The main Easter sacrifice was always a man. Occasionally additional sacrifices of women, children, or animals are made, but the ceremony centers around the sacrifice of a man. Often a hitchhiker is picked up some days before the ceremony and carefully guarded until the time of the meeting. In the eyes of Satan and the crowd, that man becomes Jesus and Satan's supposed victory over Jesus at the cross is celebrated.

I watched in utter horror as a crown of huge long thorns was driven into the young man's head; the thorns going in so deep as to pierce his skull. Then he was stripped and beaten with whips tipped with metal studs, and tortured with spikes and red-hot pokers. Finally he was nailed to a cross, which was then picked up and placed in a hole in the ground just in front of the middle of the platform. I will never forget the stench of burned and tormented flesh, the screams of the victim, his writhing in agony, his pleas for mercy. The crowd roared like a pack of wild animals, the inhuman voices of many demons from within the crowd joining in. They jeered and cheered as the cross was raised into place and dropped down into the hole. Satan had appeared by that time and sat on his throne nodding in approval... Satan appeared in human form as usual, dressed completely in shining white. But his eyes glowed red as a flame and he threw back his head and gave a howl and a scream and a hideous laugh of victory as the high priest drove a long spike through the man's head, pinning it to the cross, killing him. The crowd went crazy, screaming and shouting and dancing in crazed ecstasy at the "victory"...

Satan vanished shortly after that to go on to the next Black Sabbath sacrifice. At his departure, the meeting turned into a sex orgy; human with human, and demon with human. Every type of sexual perversion imaginable was practiced. (Brown, He Came To Set The Captives Free, P.72-74)

 

[jasonc]

And what could possibly go wrong with having your entire life driven by the words claimed to be from a god?

Human nature . Afghanistan has war lords .these not the Taliban really controlled it before we took them down the Taliban Had to ally with them .

You assume that no one would take power over you or that you wouldn't lust for power .it's our nature .


Where I was the Taliban we're never able to control .they tried again. And were beat back last i heard .

I have watched the police being corrupt rob locals of land and then the locals kill the cops and install their approved buddies who later on were as corrupt.

I learn never to trust anyone ,even over there . Sounds nice but anarchy is an ideal .

 

[jasonc]

You also said authoritarian .

I'm sure that baby or adult with a non terminal but chronic illness won't volunteer to die because you think they should because you don't want to support them .

My dad was epileptic .he remembers all seizures he has .and while unable to talk ,move ,he could hear ,and was aware.when you euthenize a person they are simply put into such a seizure state that their heart and lung seize .it's also possible with a grand mal seizure .

You do die in pain .it's not peaceful.i noticed this with my dog .she died in fear and I watched her go .she panted fast in fear until her muscles seized and eyes rolled back and mouth closed .

Peaceful death ,no it's not .

 

[T. E. Smith]

This takes us back to the particular version of Satanism you are subscribing to, as I was referring to in Post #80. You may argue that theistic Satanism does not exist, but there are numerous testimonies to he contrary.

Since it is buried under several pages now, I will quote it again for one - one among many excerpts I could quote on what the practices of real Satanism are, and how they know far better then to think their god does not exist, based on experience, not mere theory.

You never commented. Am I to assume you believe the following testimony was based on a bias that was not there?

The meeting was held in a very large isolated barn which had been roughly remodeled for the purpose. I suppose that there were a couple thousand people there from the whole surrounding area... the victim was dragged kicking and screaming through the side door and up unto the stage. The main Easter sacrifice was always a man. Occasionally additional sacrifices of women, children, or animals are made, but the ceremony centers around the sacrifice of a man. Often a hitchhiker is picked up some days before the ceremony and carefully guarded until the time of the meeting. In the eyes of Satan and the crowd, that man becomes Jesus and Satan's supposed victory over Jesus at the cross is celebrated.

I watched in utter horror as a crown of huge long thorns was driven into the young man's head; the thorns going in so deep as to pierce his skull. Then he was stripped and beaten with whips tipped with metal studs, and tortured with spikes and red-hot pokers. Finally he was nailed to a cross, which was then picked up and placed in a hole in the ground just in front of the middle of the platform. I will never forget the stench of burned and tormented flesh, the screams of the victim, his writhing in agony, his pleas for mercy. The crowd roared like a pack of wild animals, the inhuman voices of many demons from within the crowd joining in. They jeered and cheered as the cross was raised into place and dropped down into the hole. Satan had appeared by that time and sat on his throne nodding in approval... Satan appeared in human form as usual, dressed completely in shining white. But his eyes glowed red as a flame and he threw back his head and gave a howl and a scream and a hideous laugh of victory as the high priest drove a long spike through the man's head, pinning it to the cross, killing him. The crowd went crazy, screaming and shouting and dancing in crazed ecstasy at the "victory"...

Satan vanished shortly after that to go on to the next Black Sabbath sacrifice. At his departure, the meeting turned into a sex orgy; human with human, and demon with human. Every type of sexual perversion imaginable was practiced. (Brown, He Came To Set The Captives Free, P.72-74)

Theistic satanism is real but extremely rare, and many of the stories about it are fabrications.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Theistic satanism is real but extremely rare, and many of the stories about it are fabrications.

Alright, then maybe we'll start a thread on it in a day or two. Might make for an interesting discussion.

 

[T. E. Smith]

This takes us back to the particular version of Satanism you are subscribing to, as I was referring to in Post #80. You may argue that theistic Satanism does not exist, but there are numerous testimonies to he contrary.

Since it is buried under several pages now, I will quote it again for one - one among many excerpts I could quote on what the practices of real Satanism are, and how they know far better then to think their god does not exist, based on experience, not mere theory.

You never commented. Am I to assume you believe the following testimony was based on a bias that was not there?

The meeting was held in a very large isolated barn which had been roughly remodeled for the purpose. I suppose that there were a couple thousand people there from the whole surrounding area... the victim was dragged kicking and screaming through the side door and up unto the stage. The main Easter sacrifice was always a man. Occasionally additional sacrifices of women, children, or animals are made, but the ceremony centers around the sacrifice of a man. Often a hitchhiker is picked up some days before the ceremony and carefully guarded until the time of the meeting. In the eyes of Satan and the crowd, that man becomes Jesus and Satan's supposed victory over Jesus at the cross is celebrated.

I watched in utter horror as a crown of huge long thorns was driven into the young man's head; the thorns going in so deep as to pierce his skull. Then he was stripped and beaten with whips tipped with metal studs, and tortured with spikes and red-hot pokers. Finally he was nailed to a cross, which was then picked up and placed in a hole in the ground just in front of the middle of the platform. I will never forget the stench of burned and tormented flesh, the screams of the victim, his writhing in agony, his pleas for mercy. The crowd roared like a pack of wild animals, the inhuman voices of many demons from within the crowd joining in. They jeered and cheered as the cross was raised into place and dropped down into the hole. Satan had appeared by that time and sat on his throne nodding in approval... Satan appeared in human form as usual, dressed completely in shining white. But his eyes glowed red as a flame and he threw back his head and gave a howl and a scream and a hideous laugh of victory as the high priest drove a long spike through the man's head, pinning it to the cross, killing him. The crowd went crazy, screaming and shouting and dancing in crazed ecstasy at the "victory"...

Satan vanished shortly after that to go on to the next Black Sabbath sacrifice. At his departure, the meeting turned into a sex orgy; human with human, and demon with human. Every type of sexual perversion imaginable was practiced. (Brown, He Came To Set The Captives Free, P.72-74)

By the way, this is not "real" Satanism. (Also I doubt the authenticity of this wild tale.)

 

[Hidden In Him]

By the way, this is not "real" Satanism. (Also I doubt the authenticity of this wild tale.)

Satanism with no Satan is like Christianity with no Christ. Both would be utter falsehoods from the start, and mere borrowings of a name for pseudo-religious ends.

But we'll discuss it later, maybe Monday perhaps.

 

[JLB]

I don't interact with demons in any way (that's Pentecostal Christians!), nor do I believe in the devil (again, that's Christians), so probably the "volumes" you are hearing from my words are not nearly accurate.

The religion has brought me peace and community. Being an anarchist, Satan as a symbol has appealed to me, and TST relieved all the concerns I had over CoS. I identify completely with their 7 fundamental teachings, and with their emphasis on church-state separation. That is all I mean.

Here is the end result of those who follow Satan.


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41

• into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

The everlasting fire has been prepared for the devil and those who refuse to obey Jesus Christ, who is the Truth.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.
Romans 2:6-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

This is the truth whether you or anyone else believes it or not.



I encourage you to repent, and turn to God by confessing Jesus as Lord, in which you turn away from Satan as your lord.





JLB

 

[T. E. Smith]

Here is the end result of those who follow Satan.


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41

• into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

The everlasting fire has been prepared for the devil and those who refuse to obey Jesus Christ, who is the Truth.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.
Romans 2:6-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

This is the truth whether you or anyone else believes it or not.



I encourage you to repent, and turn to God by confessing Jesus as Lord, in which you turn away from Satan as your lord.





JLB

Thank you for your concern.