Sanctification

[Boaz]

If mere belief was only needed and not works then there would be no need for an adulterer to stop being an adulterer and a homosexual to stop being a homosexual, it would be, "we can do whatever we want because our belief will save us". And that is not how it works with God, we must stop committing sin, as defined by the Torah, and begin doing good works, also as defined by the Torah, which is what bearing good fruit is. And once we do these things, then our belief will result in receiving the anointing.

If anyone were able to satisfy the requirements of the law then what was the purpose of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus?

 

[gaviria.christian]

If anyone were able to satisfy the requirements of the law then what was the purpose of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus?

To free us from sin, because unlike the old covenant, which was based on the blood of animals, which relied on men trying to rule over the sin within them, the blood of the Messiah cuts away sin from the heart, therefore causing us to obey the Torah more perfectly than even the most righteous man under the old covenant was able to, because through the Messiah freedom from sin has come, by belief in him and receiving the airflow.

 

[Boaz]

To free us from sin, because unlike the old covenant, which was based on the blood of animals, which relied on men trying to rule over the sin within them, the blood of the Messiah cuts away sin from the heart, therefore causing us to obey the Torah more perfectly than even the most righteous man under the old covenant was able to, because through the Messiah freedom from sin has come, by belief in him and receiving the airflow.

I think possibly we are getting closer to maybe saying almost the same thing. By the air flow do you mean the Holy Spirit? In my way of seeing it and saying it, the Messiah, Jesus, does not free us from sin-----yet. We are freed from the penalty of sin, through His shed blood, the blood of the New Covenant, by virtue of being united to Him by faith. The faith or belief I speak of is not merely lip service or acknowledging His existence. It is the result of having a new heart one that submits to God, that believes all that the Bible says about Him. That knows we are in desperate condition and we need a savior because we cannot save ourselves and we know Jesus is that Savior. A person who has been changed in this way will not go on willfully sinning. We will still sin but when we do the Holy Spirit reminds us of His word on the matter and we are convicted. Hopefully we stop and confess.
The type of sin you mention if continued in with no remorse is often an indication the person is not actually a Christian, at least not yet, even though they may say they are. But we must not make those judgements because sometimes God will use these seasons of rebellion to do a work in the person. And only God knows who will be saved and who won't and the timing is in His hands.

 

[Boaz]

I think possibly we are getting closer to maybe saying almost the same thing. By the air flow do you mean the Holy Spirit? In my way of seeing it and saying it, the Messiah, Jesus, does not free us from sin-----yet. We are freed from the penalty of sin, through His shed blood, the blood of the New Covenant, by virtue of being united to Him by faith. The faith or belief I speak of is not merely lip service or acknowledging His existence. It is the result of having a new heart one that submits to God, that believes all that the Bible says about Him. That knows we are in desperate condition and we need a savior because we cannot save ourselves and we know Jesus is that Savior. A person who has been changed in this way will not go on willfully sinning. We will still sin but when we do the Holy Spirit reminds us of His word on the matter and we are convicted. Hopefully we stop and confess.
The type of sin you mention if continued in with no remorse is often an indication the person is not actually a Christian, at least not yet, even though they may say they are. But we must not make those judgements because sometimes God will use these seasons of rebellion to do a work in the person. And only God knows who will be saved and who won't and the timing is in His hands.

When I say Jesus frees us from the penalty of sin I mean we are set free because of Christ's righteousness being imputed to believers, they won't have God's wrath at the judgement. We gain entrance into Heaven we are saved from hell. Sin always has consequences here on Earth and we may well suffer those.

 

[gaviria.christian]

I think possibly we are getting closer to maybe saying almost the same thing. By the air flow do you mean the Holy Spirit? In my way of seeing it and saying it, the Messiah, Jesus, does not free us from sin-----yet. We are freed from the penalty of sin, through His shed blood, the blood of the New Covenant, by virtue of being united to Him by faith. The faith or belief I speak of is not merely lip service or acknowledging His existence. It is the result of having a new heart one that submits to God, that believes all that the Bible says about Him. That knows we are in desperate condition and we need a savior because we cannot save ourselves and we know Jesus is that Savior. A person who has been changed in this way will not go on willfully sinning. We will still sin but when we do the Holy Spirit reminds us of His word on the matter and we are convicted. Hopefully we stop and confess.
The type of sin you mention if continued in with no remorse is often an indication the person is not actually a Christian, at least not yet, even though they may say they are. But we must not make those judgements because sometimes God will use these seasons of rebellion to do a work in the person. And only God knows who will be saved and who won't and the timing is in His hands.

The scriptures teach that the airflow of God frees us from sin, hence why Paul said, "you have been set free from sin".

 

[JLB]

Be encouraged, dearly beloved in Christ to know that at the moment one is brought to faith in Christ, all within is complete and entire concerning “all things that pertain to life and godliness” (2Pe 1:3), which most importantly includes—redemption within salvation!

Could you explain what the term “brought to faith in Christ” means?



JLB

 

[JLB]

all within is complete and entire concerning “all things that pertain to life and godliness” (2Pe 1:3), which most importantly includes—redemption within salvation!

All is complete?


Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:2-9


Key Verse:


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Peter is teaching that we who have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, for this reason we must “add” to our faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.


We are far from being complete, when we are first saved, in fact the very purpose of the five fold ministry is to bring about the completion and maturity in the body of Christ, in which we can begin to supply what each other needs for the growth and maturity of each other.


And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16


Key Verses:

• till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine,

• from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Obeying the commands of God found in his Torah, which then takes you from being ordinary, to then being "set-apart".

Could you explain what you mean by “Torah”?

No one is justified, declared righteous, by the works of the law.


We are to obey Christ and His teachings, and commandments, in which we are led by the Spirit, in a life set apart unto righteousness and holiness.


But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Galatians 5:18


The Spirit does not lead us to keep the law of Moses.

The Spirit empowers us and leads us to keep the law of Christ.



JLB

 

[JLB]

When I say Jesus frees us from the penalty of sin I mean we are set free because of Christ's righteousness being imputed to believers, they won't have God's wrath at the judgement. We gain entrance into Heaven we are saved from hell. Sin always has consequences here on Earth and we may well suffer those.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8


This says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire?


Do you believe that to be true?





JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Could you explain what the term “brought to faith in Christ” means?

JLB

The moment we receive faith to which we are brought. As all "the gifts and calling of God" are not obtained by self but by God bringing them to us. Faith is not something anyone can decide to have on their own. I believe all who have faith in Christ were prepared first for faith, which is never truly received impulsively and untaught concerning it. If we think back we can see how God worked this into their lives.

God bless!

 

[netchaplain]

All is complete?

Key Verse:
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter is teaching that we who have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, for this reason we must “add” to our faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

I believe faith for salvation is complete, and is like a tree, and the fruit of these here mentioned comes with it. Thus can be read "add with your faith," which fruit all who are in the faith of Christ are progressively being taught by the Spirit and His Word.

If faith was not complete for salvation at it's point of reception it will never be. The fruit of salvation does not first bring forth salvation, anymore than the fruit was first before the tree. The only element which is incomplete, and in this life will never be complete (perfect), is the walk of the believer in "the image of Christ," which is in an unending progression of maturity on this earth.

We are far from being complete, when we are first saved, in fact the very purpose of the five fold ministry is to bring about the completion and maturity in the body of Christ, in which we can begin to supply what each other needs for the growth and maturity of each other.

I like the way you put this, but there must be a clarification concerning the completion of what subject. There are only two primary issues involved in salvation; the receiving of it, and the showing or manifestation of it. The former is perfect, but the latter is always in a progression of maturity, as Paul wrote "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect,"; “I count not myself to have apprehended”; "I press toward the mark": These concern the maturing of the walk in salvation, not the receiving of salvation, which is complete or perfect!

Paul knew his walk or anyone's could never be perfect on the earth, due to the ongoing tainting of the "old man." If any could be perfect in their walk, one of them would have been Paul, which answers to "as many as be perfect," meaning as many would be or desire to be complete. The "mark" is not salvation but the good walk of it until finished. The chapter (Phl 3) is all about the Christian walk (vs 16-20).

till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine,

"Perfect man" means mature man but not completely matured or perfected, which is one who is not moved or deceived "by every wind of doctrine."

 

[JLB]

Perfect man" means mature man but not completely matured or perfected, which is one who is not moved or deceived "by every wind of doctrine."

Perfect, in context means complete, lacking nothing in maturity of Christlike character and authority.

That’s the will of God that we are sanctified, and conformed to The image of God’s Son.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The moment we receive faith to which we are brought. As all "the gifts and calling of God" are not obtained by self but by God bringing them to us. Faith is not something anyone can decide to have on their own. I believe all who have faith in Christ were prepared first for faith, which is never truly received impulsively and untaught concerning it. If we think back we can see how God worked this into their lives.

God bless!

Faith comes when God speaks to us, moves upon us, inspires us, whether directly or through a sent one to preach the Gospel.

Those who hear the Gospel have faith.

Those who believe the Gospel, and therefore obey it, are born again, and justified, in which they are declared to be right with God; righteous.

Those who hear the Gospel, yet don’t believe, still have faith, but the faith they have is dead, dormant, and incomplete and therefore unable to produce the intended divine result of salvation.

IOW the faith they received, when they heard the Gospel, is dead.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Perfect, in context means complete, lacking nothing in maturity of Christlike character and authority.

That’s the will of God that we are sanctified, and conformed to The image of God’s Son.

JLB

To me, the things God provides in their intended administration are perfect in us, but we cannot be perfect in the use (walk) of them, which would mean being sinless. The deliverance in our salvation from sin's guilt and dominion is perfect, though our walk from them isn't. The believer has complete deliverance in salvation through the provided redemption of Christ, but requires ongoing deliverance in our Christian walk (lifestyle).

 

[netchaplain]

Faith comes when God speaks to us, moves upon us, inspires us, whether directly or through a sent one to preach the Gospel.

Plenty of agreement here! I believe everyone who has chosen to receive saving faith was witnessed by many but moved most by a single person whom God used to reach us more than the rest. There is much time involved in God preparing us up to the point of faith, but the point of receiving faith is instant.

Those who hear the Gospel have faith.

"Faith comes by hearing" is in the sense of listening and believing, for many hear the Gospel but do not listen to believe (Ro 10:18). Similar to Hebrews 10:26, i.e. if we are presented with the Gospel and do not desire to believe it and instead continue in our sin, there is no sacrifice for our souls; because we only heard the knowledge of the truth but did not accept it.

Those who hear the Gospel, yet don’t believe, still have faith, but the faith they have is dead, dormant, and incomplete and therefore unable to produce the intended divine result of salvation.

To me, James' use of "dead faith" is a hyperbolic expression meaning nonexistent faith, for faith always produces according to its unfailing administration. This answers to why this manner of use in James is the only reference like it.

 

[JLB]

To me, the things God provides in their intended administration are perfect in us, but we cannot be perfect in the use (walk) of them, which would mean being sinless. The deliverance in our salvation from sin's guilt and dominion is perfect, though our walk from them isn't. The believer has complete deliverance in salvation through the provided redemption of Christ, but requires ongoing deliverance in our Christian walk (lifestyle).

till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, Ephesians 4:13-14

• till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

To a perfect man, indicates that we are to come to, or be conformed to, the measure Christ is complete, that we would walk according to the pattern He set as an example for us to walk in as a mature son’s of God.

Jesus demonstrated for us, how Adam was supposed to live and fulfill his purpose with Eve to subdue the earth and have dominion.


The original intent for mankind.


Can you imagine the earth with 100 million Jesus’s living on it?

There would be no room for the devil to operate.

The earth would be as it is in heaven.


For the earth will be filled
With the knowledge of the glory of the Lord,
As the waters cover the sea.
Habakkuk 2:14


If you were God, would you envision anything less?



JLB

 

[Boaz]

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8


This says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire?


Do you believe that to be true?





JLB

of course it is true. It's in the Bible. How one interprets it may be true or it might not be. And I'm personally not sure how to interpret it. I only know this. If everyone who lies is kept out of Heaven, there won't be ANYONE in Heaven. So it can't mean that. Does it mean a habitual liar, one who lives a life style of continuous lying?Maybe. Or does it mean when the New Jerusalem arrives nobody there will lie? Possibly. Or does it mean the sins (including lying) of the redeemed have been washed away by the blood of Jesus, and the ones who are not redeemed and therefore exhibit these sins, are in the lake of fire?

 

[netchaplain]

till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; To a perfect man, indicates that we are to come to, or be conformed to, the measure Christ is complete, that we would walk according to the pattern He set as an example for us to walk in as a mature son’s of God.

The measure of Christ for us is that which was for Christ--"not my will but Thy will be done." Jesus's walk is our template as you've mentioned, which is summed up in the doing of the Father's pleasure. We walk as He walked, which is that “I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent Me.”

We might be saying the same thing, just in a different way!