SANTA CLAUSE IS EVIL!!!!!!

[jasoncran]

To celibrate a bithday is to say to the person that I am glad that you were born and is totally hamless regarding faith. What I am talking about is the destruction of faith through teaching lies to kids.

Decorations for christmass are just one way of celbrating the birth of Christ. and that is what christmass is supposed to be all about! Santa Clause is Satans evil counterfit meaning.

have a great day.

the birth of christ isnt december 25th in fact that day coincides with the worship of saturn!
and thus a lie. most scholars dont think that jesus was born then, and if so it tends to snow this time of year in isreal. would you bring sheep out into that weather to graze?

and uh the christmas tree is a from the babylonian god marduk.

and yule tide is also pagan.

and most christians that believe what you say dont teach santa is a replacement for christ at all.

in fact they teach that santa is nothing but giver but the reason for the season is christ!

 

[gideon3213]

the birth of christ isnt december 25th in fact that day coincides with the worship of saturn!
and thus a lie. most scholars dont think that jesus was born then, and if so it tends to snow this time of year in isreal. would you bring sheep out into that weather to graze?

and uh the christmas tree is a from the babylonian god marduk.

and yule tide is also pagan.

and most christians that believe what you say dont teach santa is a replacement for christ at all.

in fact they teach that santa is nothing but giver but the reason for the season is christ!

ok, now we are off the topic. Yet I will answer you. I know that Jeus was not born on dec 25. He was born sometime in late spring through middle fall, when it would have been warm out at night. but being that we do not have a clue as to what His actual birthday was, and being that we honor other peoples birthdays once a year; dec 25 is just as good a day as any to celibrate His birth on. And because the whole world already celibrates His birth day on this date: I see no good reason to not celibrate His birth on that date.

Now I do not ever get a christmass tree. As there are some objections to it. But many people see the evergreen tree as representing eternal life. I really dont care.

And if you go back and read the posts that have been posted in this thread, you will find one where the person gave Santa God like qualities and believed that santa was a good alagory for Christ. At any rate, it's not the christians who substitute santa for christ: but the secular world does! Most of what you hear on the radio and see on the t.v. is about santa clause, they even have shows were they present the notion that if you take away the story of santa you take away the meaning of christmass!

I personally do not decorate my apartment for the christmass season. for me it is a time to celibrate the fact that God became flesh and dwelt among us. it is the time of year that we celibrate the fact that He came into the world to teach us the ways of God, and then lay His life down for us. I give gifts to others only because jesus said as you have done it unto the least of these my bretheren, you have done it unto me. I cannot give a gift to jesus in honor of His birth into this world any other way. So for me, christmass is truly a celbration of Christ! I hope it is for you as well.

have a great day.

 

[jasoncran]

ok, now we are off the topic. Yet I will answer you. I know that Jeus was not born on dec 25. He was born somtime in late spring through middle fall, when it would have been warm out at night. but being that we do not have a clue as to what His actual birthday was, and being that we honor other peoples birthdays once a year; dec 25 is just as good a day as any to celibrate His birth on. And because the whole world already celibrates His birth day on this date: I see no good reason to not celibrate His birth on that date.

Now I do not ever get a christmass tree. As there are some objections to it. But many people see the evergreen tree as representing eternal life. I really dont care.

And if you go back and read the posts that have been posted in this thread, you will find one where the person gave Santa God like qualities and believed that santa was a good alagory for Christ. At any rate, it's not the christians who substitute santa for christ: but the secular world does! Most of what you hear on the radio and see on the t.v. is about santa clause, they even have shows were they present the notion that if you take away the story of santa you take away the meaning of christmass!

I personally do not decorate my apartment for the christmass season. for me it is a time to celibrate the fact that God became flesh and dwelt among us. it is the time of year that we celibrate the fact that He came into the world to teach us the ways of God, and then lay His life down for us. I give gifts to others only because jesus said as you have done it unto the least of these my bretheren, you have done it unto me. I cannot give a gift to jesus in honor of His birth into this world any other way. So for me, christmass is truly a celbration of Christ! I hope it is for you as well.

have a great day.

well you are talking to christians here that dont do that.and

for me i will instead ,lord willing,delve into the real biblical holiday that we christians could celebrate but many dont.

channukah!

and the Lord celebrated it.but we arent commanded to do this at all but i think one can learn alot about the messiah this way.as the menorah itsself is a picture of him.

 

[l'Chante]

You know its interesting how that we could both have similar experiences, yet have different outcomes. I had a father who was dictatorial, and a mother with a poisonous tongue. I also suffered at the hands of bully's throughout most of my childhood. But these things just caused me to draw closer to God! Because He was the only friend I had! But I still had to struggle with my faith because of the santa issue. (I did not become a christian until I was 11 years old. The damage of Santa had already been done by that time.)

I think you raise a very valid point here as well, Gideon. Realizing that Santa wasn't real had no lasting effect on me (and I'm sure others as well) , yet for people like you and my fiancé, finding out that Santa wasn't real was devastating. It did indeed have a lasting effect on my fiancé and he will tell you in detail where it was and how it happened and how it made him feel and he's forty!

I guess it is because of people react differently to the same situation that we can't go cross-board with Santa. To me, Santa was a jolly, happy man that at least realized that I was trying to be a good girl and he rewarded me with gifts once a year. Up until today I can't do anything right in my father's eyes and ironically; it was the same guy at the end of the day. He just haven't been giving me gifts for the past thirty years to make up for the other 364 days in his company.

But yes, let's just agree that everybody takes something different from every situation?

 

[craigmn3]

That which doesn't exist cannot be evil....so to where is the evil traced. To the heart of men

Specifically the men who changed the celebration of the birth of Christ into the worlds largest money making scam.

Disney has it's mouse to pick your pocket

Christmas has the Jolly Fat Man

Christmas as little to no application to the birth of Christ any longer. and that is the real evil. To turn the generosity of the gift giver against themselves to satisfy the greed of the merchant. Black Friday is aptly named

 

[gideon3213]

I think you raise a very valid point here as well, Gideon. Realizing that Santa wasn't real had no lasting effect on me (and I'm sure others as well) , yet for people like you and my fiancé, finding out that Santa wasn't real was devastating. It did indeed have a lasting effect on my fiancé and he will tell you in detail where it was and how it happened and how it made him feel and he's forty!

I guess it is because of people react differently to the same situation that we can't go cross-board with Santa. To me, Santa was a jolly, happy man that at least realized that I was trying to be a good girl and he rewarded me with gifts once a year. Up until today I can't do anything right in my father's eyes and ironically; it was the same guy at the end of the day. He just haven't been giving me gifts for the past thirty years to make up for the other 364 days in his company.

But yes, let's just agree that everybody takes something different from every situation?

Actually we can go across the board with santa: Just because someone does not remember how somehting affected them does not mean that they were not affected by it! In fact, most people will not remember really tramatic stuff that happened in their lives, because their brains block the memory of it so that the person can go on with life. It is a self defense mechenism that the brain uses in order to help keep a person sane. For your husband and I we responded a lot more dramatically then you did, but that does not mean that your faith was not altered by the deception. I can assure you that it was! for I do not believe that it is possible for a child to be decieved in such a way and not have it affect him in a negative way once he discovers the truth!

Also, we have a clear command from God that we are not to bear false witness. And when we tell our kids that santa exists and he lives on the north pole, etc, we are bearing false witness! And we are also commanded to not lie to one another. that includes our kids! These rules apply to every one! And these rule prohibit us from decieving our kids with the lies of santa, tooth fairy, etc. accross the board! Thus according to Gods rules, it is a serious sin to decieve our kids into believing that santa is real. And if we are guilty of such sin, we need to repent. That means that we have to stop doing it.

Please, I implore you, let us put on the belt of truth, and never lie to one another. let us love one another in sincerity and in truth!

have a great day.

 

[gideon3213]

well you are talking to christians here that dont do that.and

for me i will instead ,lord willing,delve into the real biblical holiday that we christians could celebrate but many dont.

channukah!

and the Lord celebrated it.but we arent commanded to do this at all but i think one can learn alot about the messiah this way.as the menorah itsself is a picture of him.

channukah???? Never heard of it! do you mean Hanukkah? thats a week long festival isn't it? Well, have fun!

But I do not understand what you mean when you say 'you are talking to christians here that dont do that.' do you mean that you don't celibrate the birth of jesus? or you dont decorate for christmass?

Have a great day

 

[gideon3213]

I think you raise a very valid point here as well, Gideon. Realizing that Santa wasn't real had no lasting effect on me (and I'm sure others as well) , yet for people like you and my fiancé, finding out that Santa wasn't real was devastating. It did indeed have a lasting effect on my fiancé and he will tell you in detail where it was and how it happened and how it made him feel and he's forty!

I guess it is because of people react differently to the same situation that we can't go cross-board with Santa. To me, Santa was a jolly, happy man that at least realized that I was trying to be a good girl and he rewarded me with gifts once a year. Up until today I can't do anything right in my father's eyes and ironically; it was the same guy at the end of the day. He just haven't been giving me gifts for the past thirty years to make up for the other 364 days in his company.

But yes, let's just agree that everybody takes something different from every situation?

Once again you and I share something in common: I still cant do anything right in my dad and mom's eyes either! I am a highly skilled man in many things; yet my parents won't acknowlege any of that! I would like to be their friends; but they do not respect me or my opinions. The root of the problem is two fold: pride, and the desire to control everything I do. (they don't of course, because I wont let them!) At any rate, I know what your going trough!

have a great day.

 

[jasoncran]

channukah???? Never heard of it! do you mean Hanukkah? thats a week long festival isn't it? Well, have fun!

But I do not understand what you mean when you say 'you are talking to christians here that dont do that.' do you mean that you don't celibrate the birth of jesus? or you dont decorate for christmass?

Have a great day

there are christians, they dont celebrate christmas.

quite a few. some rather not give gifts or decorate etc. and on the festival of dedication. that ch is the correct way of spelling way of it as well.

i lean that way. we celebrate christ when we give to the needy and so on.

i only put up a christmas tree three times since my marriage to my wife.

i do give gifts to my grandkids when i can afford to, but that is all.

 

[gideon3213]

there are christians, they dont celebrate christmas.

quite a few. some rather not give gifts or decorate etc. and on the festival of dedication. that ch is the correct way of spelling way of it as well.

i lean that way. we celebrate christ when we give to the needy and so on.

i only put up a christmas tree three times since my marriage to my wife.

i do give gifts to my grandkids when i can afford to, but that is all.

Thats interesting! and I am not entirely sure I understand why a christian would not want to celibrate the incarnation of Jesus! The very word Christmass is actually 2 words joined together: 'Christ' and 'mass'. 'Christ' means 'anointed one' and is a referance, in this case, to Jesus. 'mass' means 'celibratiion'. So the word 'Christmass' literally means 'Christ celibration'. or 'the celibration of Jesus Christ'. Hence we learn from the eptimology of the word 'Christmass' what the Christmass season is supposed to be all about! And it is such a joy to celibrate Jesus!

Also the christmass season is a great time to preach the gospel to others when we tell them what the true meaning of the season is! So Christmass is supposed to be the greatest time of the year!

Well, I hope that you have a great day!

 

[jasoncran]

Thats interesting! and I am not entirely sure I understand why a christian would not want to celibrate the incarnation of Jesus! The very word Christmass is actually 2 words joined together: 'Christ' and 'mass'. 'Christ' means 'anointed one' and is a referance, in this case, to Jesus. 'mass' means 'celibratiion'. So the word 'Christmass' literally means 'Christ celibration'. or 'the celibration of Jesus Christ'. Hence we learn from the eptimology of the word 'Christmass' what the Christmass season is supposed to be all about! And it is such a joy to celibrate Jesus!

Also the christmass season is a great time to preach the gospel to others when we tell them what the true meaning of the season is! So Christmass is supposed to be the greatest time of the year!

Well, I hope that you have a great day!

welll one here you are complaing about st.nicholas

whene these things were once idols

the christmas tree
the twelve days of christmas(were actually twelve pagan says called the saturnaly and involved orgies)
mistletoe, pagan in origin
yule logs where we get yule tide from.

now then bieng a former jw i can see why those that know this dont celebrate it.

since december 25th isnt his actual birthday, what is the difference when really the apostles themselves didnt celebrate such a day as the rcc was the one that started this tradition.

most likely the early church did communion, and also may have done passover or hannukah or were closer to the messianic jews of today.

 

[Theofilus]

Thats interesting! and I am not entirely sure I understand why a christian would not want to celibrate the incarnation of Jesus! The very word Christmass is actually 2 words joined together: 'Christ' and 'mass'. 'Christ' means 'anointed one' and is a referance, in this case, to Jesus. 'mass' means 'celibratiion'. So the word 'Christmass' literally means 'Christ celibration'. or 'the celibration of Jesus Christ'. Hence we learn from the eptimology of the word 'Christmass' what the Christmass season is supposed to be all about! And it is such a joy to celibrate Jesus!

I've heard that explination before, but I've also heard that "mass" means "sacrifice". I decided to look it up myself to see which was right, and what I found rather surprised me. According to the online etymological dictionary, etymonline.com,

mass (2)
"Eucharistic service," O.E. mæsse, from V.L. *messa "eucharistic service," lit. "dismissal," from L.L. missa "dismissal," fem. pp. of mittere "to let go, send," from concluding words of the service, Ite, missa est, "Go, (the prayer) has been sent," or "Go, it is the dismissal."

Apparently, "Christmas" could be interpretded as "the dismissal of Christ".

I would also like to point out that you are confusing two things that are not the same. Jason said that there were Christians who didn't celebrate Christmas, and you said that you find it strange that Christians don't want to celebrate Christ's incarnation. The incarnation was an event that is described in the Bible. Christmas is a Christian name that has been given to a Pagan holiday. The two have nothing to do with each other. Aside from going to church and some of the decorations, such as manger scenes, everything about Christmas can be traced back to the Roman Saturnalia (a week long festival dedicated to the god Saturn, celebrated from Dec. 18-24), Natalus Sol Invictus (the Birthday of the Invincible Sun, celebrated on Dec. 25) or other Pagan festivals and deities.

 

[gideon3213]

I've heard that explination before, but I've also heard that "mass" means "sacrifice". I decided to look it up myself to see which was right, and what I found rather surprised me. According to the online etymological dictionary, etymonline.com,



Apparently, "Christmas" could be interpretded as "the dismissal of Christ".

I would also like to point out that you are confusing two things that are not the same. Jason said that there were Christians who didn't celebrate Christmas, and you said that you find it strange that Christians don't want to celebrate Christ's incarnation. The incarnation was an event that is described in the Bible. Christmas is a Christian name that has been given to a Pagan holiday. The two have nothing to do with each other. Aside from going to church and some of the decorations, such as manger scenes, everything about Christmas can be traced back to the Roman Saturnalia (a week long festival dedicated to the god Saturn, celebrated from Dec. 18-24), Natalus Sol Invictus (the Birthday of the Invincible Sun, celebrated on Dec. 25) or other Pagan festivals and deities.

Here is the websters dict. definition of the word mass:

Main Entry:mass
Pronunciation:*mas
Function:noun
1 capitalized : a sequence of prayers and ceremonies forming the eucharistic service of the Roman Catholic Church
2 often capitalized : a celebration of the Eucharist
3 : a musical setting for parts of the Mass

There is nothing in this definitiion that says that the word 'mass' means 'dismiss'.
And Christmass has not been a pagan holiday for centeries. It is a time of year to celibate the fact that Jesus was born into this world, and it has been for many centurys now! What it may have been before does not matter at all. Now Satan has corrupted Christmass and added many pagan things too it; But the true reason for the season still stands! and there is nothing wrong with celibrating Jesus birth at this time of year. There is nothing in the scripture that prohibits such a thing. And it makes no differance in this case as to whether or not the apostles celibated Jesus birth or not; as it is my understanding that the ancient jews did not celbrate peoples birthdays! And all a celibration of someones birthday is is a way of saying that we are very glad that that person was born! And I certainly hope that you are glad that Jesus was born!

We christians should use this time of year as a tool for witnissing to unbelievers. and as a time to celibrate, with great joy, our Lord's incarnation into this world! (His birth is an incarnaton of Jesus, not the beginning of Jesus.)

i am now 49 years old, and I have celibrated christmass all my life; and you know something? there was not even one christmass that I even thought about the so called 'invincible sun'. much less honored it! Thus I can say that if that was indeed what was celibrated back in the time of rome, it is not celibrated now! and it has not been for many centruries! Christmass has a firm, well establish meaning in the minds of everyone around the world that it is the time of year that we give honor to Jesus by honoring His birth. That is the meaning that chritmass has had for many centuries now, and it is the very reason for the season. Santa and all of the other trapings of crhistmass is satans attempts to distract us from this truth!

Come, let us celbrate Jesus together!

 

[Theofilus]

Here is the websters dict. definition of the word mass:

Main Entry:mass
Pronunciation:*mas
Function:noun
1 capitalized : a sequence of prayers and ceremonies forming the eucharistic service of the Roman Catholic Church
2 often capitalized : a celebration of the Eucharist
3 : a musical setting for parts of the Mass

Yes, but that's not what you said before. You said:

The very word Christmass is actually 2 words joined together: 'Christ' and 'mass'. 'Christ' means 'anointed one' and is a referance, in this case, to Jesus. 'mass' means 'celibratiion'. So the word 'Christmass' literally means 'Christ celibration'.

You claimed that the original meaning of the word was "celebration", just like the original meaning of the word "christ" was "annointed one". "Christ" today doesn't mean "annointed", that was the original meaning. Likewise, what "mass" means today is not what it meant originally. It originally meant "dismissal".

And Christmass has not been a pagan holiday for centeries.

The ammount of time that has passed is totally irrelevant. The real question here is whether we can take festivals or worship rituals, which the Lord declares in His word to be abominations, and declare them to be "sanctified", and therefore acceptable for Christians. If we do have the power to take what the Lord calls abominable and declare it holy, then why stop with Christmas and Easter? Why not "sanctify" things like homosexuality and wife swapping? In fact, if we can "sanctify" anything we want, why not just declare all other religions to be holy and acceptable to God? That way, everybody would be saved.

Of course, if we don't have the authority to sanctify what God calls sinful, then the church never had the authority to "sanctify" Christmas, Easter or a number of other holidays and traditions. If it was wrong when it was done, it's still wrong. Time doesn't make sins holy.

Now Satan has corrupted Christmass and added many pagan things too it; But the true reason for the season still stands!

No, it was Pagan long before Christ was even born. What has happened is that the church has added a few Christian traditions to it (the operative word being "few"). Very nearly everything about Christmas is just like the Saturnalia and Natalus Sol Invictus were long before Christians thought of giving these festivals a new name. (which, by the way, not all people have done. In many languages it is still called by the old Pagan names, such as Yule, Noel, Weinachten, etc.)

and there is nothing wrong with celibrating Jesus birth at this time of year. There is nothing in the scripture that prohibits such a thing.

Actually, there is.

The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.†You must not worship the LORD your God in their way (Deu. 12:29-31)​

 

[theLords]

The ammount of time that has passed is totally irrelevant. The real question here is whether we can take festivals or worship rituals, which the Lord declares in His word to be abominations, and declare them to be "sanctified", and therefore acceptable for Christians. If we do have the power to take what the Lord calls abominable and declare it holy, then why stop with Christmas and Easter? Why not "sanctify" things like homosexuality and wife swapping? In fact, if we can "sanctify" anything we want, why not just declare all other religions to be holy and acceptable to God? That way, everybody would be saved.

Of course, if we don't have the authority to sanctify what God calls sinful, then the church never had the authority to "sanctify" Christmas, Easter or a number of other holidays and traditions. If it was wrong when it was done, it's still wrong. Time doesn't make sins holy.

The Lord celebrated Channukah and yet that was from the Talmudic (section) of Judiasim. There was never any "Thou shall celebrate what I did for you with the Festival of Lights" in the Bible, yet the Lord thought that it honored God and participated.

We don't celebrate any pagan rituals anymore. No one worships the sun on Christams or Ressurrection Sunday because they are too busy worshipping the Son. I'm not a big fan of the easter bunny or santa, but to those whose celebrations are made brighter by their existence more power to them. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the coming of Christ once a year and thanking Him for coming to the earth to redeem us. There's nothing wrong with gathering once every year to thank the Lord for His sacrifice either. These are things that we should do every day within our hearts, but we gather once a week to worship the Lord, why not collectively celebrate once a year as well?

Throughout Church history, the Lord has been slowly bringing reform to purify the Church. We see that the Lord constantly perserved the purity of His Word and His people for 2,000 years. The Lord loves and corrects His people, He would have shown His disapproval and purified us from celebrating Christmas or Resurrection Sunday a long time ago. Instead, He is speaking to people's hearts to convict them to remember that it's not about presents or parties or dinners, but about the Lord, Immanuel, and what He did for us because of his love.

 

[jasoncran]

simple solution, stop celebrating christmas and switch to hannukah.

cant go wrong with that.why? the lord celebrated it and you can still give gifts.

its a win win for us.

 

[Theofilus]

The Lord celebrated Channukah and yet that was from the Talmudic (section) of Judiasim. There was never any "Thou shall celebrate what I did for you with the Festival of Lights" in the Bible, yet the Lord thought that it honored God and participated.

We don't celebrate any pagan rituals anymore. No one worships the sun on Christams or Ressurrection Sunday because they are too busy worshipping the Son. I'm not a big fan of the easter bunny or santa, but to those whose celebrations are made brighter by their existence more power to them. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the coming of Christ once a year and thanking Him for coming to the earth to redeem us. There's nothing wrong with gathering once every year to thank the Lord for His sacrifice either. These are things that we should do every day within our hearts, but we gather once a week to worship the Lord, why not collectively celebrate once a year as well?

Throughout Church history, the Lord has been slowly bringing reform to purify the Church. We see that the Lord constantly perserved the purity of His Word and His people for 2,000 years. The Lord loves and corrects His people, He would have shown His disapproval and purified us from celebrating Christmas or Resurrection Sunday a long time ago. Instead, He is speaking to people's hearts to convict them to remember that it's not about presents or parties or dinners, but about the Lord, Immanuel, and what He did for us because of his love.

I notice you totally ignored my main point. It cannot be denied that Christmas trees, Christmas lights, decorating our homes with holly, mistletoe and other evergreens, Santa Clause and everything that goes with him, such as elves and flying reindeer, as well as a number of other customs associated with Christmas, Easter and a number of other holidays are all Pagan in origin. So, I ask you this one question:

Assuming that a custom, tradition or belief has been declared sinful or abominable by God in the Bible, does the church have the authority to declare such a s custom, tradition or belief to be holy and acceptable for Christians.

It's a simple yes or no question, but think hard before you answer, becase both answers have some pretty serious implications. Note also that this is a seperate issue from the question of whether Christmas or anything about it has, in fact, been declared sinful or abominable. I will address that issue once you have answered this question.

 

[theLords]

I notice you totally ignored my main point. It cannot be denied that Christmas trees, Christmas lights, decorating our homes with holly, mistletoe and other evergreens, Santa Clause and everything that goes with him, such as elves and flying reindeer, as well as a number of other customs associated with Christmas, Easter and a number of other holidays are all Pagan in origin. So, I ask you this one question:

Assuming that a custom, tradition or belief has been declared sinful or abominable by God in the Bible, does the church have the authority to declare such a s custom, tradition or belief to be holy and acceptable for Christians.

It's a simple yes or no question, but think hard before you answer, becase both answers have some pretty serious implications. Note also that this is a seperate issue from the question of whether Christmas or anything about it has, in fact, been declared sinful or abominable. I will address that issue once you have answered this question.

It's the power of the Lord's redemption.

A man who was in a gang and tattooed up who then comes to the Lord has been redeemed by the Lord's blood but still has those tattoos from his pagan life on his body. Most cannot afford to have them removed. The Lord redeems that man and that past so that he no longer sees those tattoos as a reminder of his past life and feels pain, but rather he sees those tattoos as a reminder of where he's been and what the Lord delivered him from and praises God.

 

[theLords]

simple solution, stop celebrating christmas and switch to hannukah.

cant go wrong with that.why? the lord celebrated it and you can still give gifts.

its a win win for us.

I love Chrismakuh, I'm all for it!

 

[jasoncran]

I love Chrismakuh, I'm all for it!

you fail to see what actually theo says.

do we redeem zen and call it christian meditation. and mix the two?

that is what theo is saying.